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Not really, 100% red in rec-709 isn't the same red as 100% red in BT2020. However, you are correct that UHD or HDR patterns are not needed.
Correct, my point was, Calman tells the pattern generator it wants 100% red. It sends the same command to the pattern generator (100% red) whether it's measuring Rec.709 or Rec.2020. The difference comes in how the display interprets 100% red, how it measures, and how Calman interprets that measurement. I've used both my Radiance XE and Calman Mobile Forge/Chromecast as pattern generators and they work fine for HDR, I just had to put my RS600 in the right mode manually.
 

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[EDIT: I read the software manual for the latest version of the software for the RS4500 and it looks like when using the i1pro2, the meter is facing the screen, which is great as it takes the screen into account (the Spyder 5 is still used facing the PJ). This means that the 1200nits limitation if the i1pro2 isn't an issue, and even the 300nits limitation of the i1pro rev E wouldn't be for most projectors setups, but the low-end limitation of both of these meters still stands. The i1pro2 isn't used to profile the Spyder 5, but is used on its own. I wouldn't trust a gamma calibration with an i1pro below 30% white (I used to have one). I wouldn't trust the gamma calibration of an i1pro2 below 15% white, maybe 10% at best. So the i1pro2 might work with a 9 step gamma calibration, but I doubt a 20 or 33 steps would work. I don't believe an i1pro rev E stands a chance due to its limitation in the low end, even with 9 steps only. These are spectros, they are not meant to calibrate gamma, only to be users as reference meters to profile a colorimeter or to do a gamut calibration / above 30% white calibration]
This really begs the question as to why JVC doesn't add the iD3 at some point. Since they've now got the i1pro2 facing the screen in autocal, there's really no reason why they cant add the iD3 anymore. Would be a nice step up from the Spyder meters in terms of sample to sample accuracy, and would also eliminate a lot of the issues at the low end with the i1pro2 you speak to as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,883 (Edited)
This really begs the question as to why JVC doesn't add the iD3 at some point. Since they've now got the i1pro2 facing the screen in autocal, there's really no reason why they cant add the iD3 anymore. Would be a nice step up from the Spyder meters in terms of sample to sample accuracy, and would also eliminate a lot of the issues at the low end with the i1pro2 you speak to as well.
Frankly the i1d3 isn't sufficiently better in low light. It can't read 5% white facing the screen in low lamp reliably when the iris is nearly fully closed, and it's unable to read black so can't be used for a BT1886 calibration, at least from a color point of view. And it should give good results with a 9 point gamma calibration, possibly even a 20 points one in high lamp / iris fully open in some setups.

The i1pro2 makes sense because it's the best semi pro spectro, which means that it can be used for a near reference calibration.

What they should do is simply allow the user to profile the spyder with the i1pro2, then run the calibration with the spyder.

Or they should support significantly better meters, such as the Discus or the Klein K10a. The i1d3 is not significantly better than the spyder for this use. It's more accurate but not good enough for a 33 point gamma calibration, especially when facing the screen.

Also until someone tries an Autocal with an i1pro2 and reports back, it's only me making guesses. I could be wrong and JVC might have found a way to get good results from the i1po2 with Autocal.
 

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Also until someone tries an Autocal with an i1pro2 and reports back, it's only me making guesses. I could be wrong and JVC might have found a way to get good results from the i1po2 with Autocal.
I think someone in the 620 thread reported their machine was calibrated with an i1pro2 by a "JVC Representative" at their dealer, and the results did not sound good.

Discussion starts here:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2729761-official-jvc-rs520-rs620-x7500-x9500-owner-s-thread-83.html#post53734913
 

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Discussion Starter #1,885
I think someone in the 620 thread reported their machine was calibrated with an i1pro2 by a "JVC Representative" at their dealer, and the results did not sound good.

Discussion starts here:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2729761-official-jvc-rs520-rs620-x7500-x9500-owner-s-thread-83.html#post53734913
Thanks, I read the discussion and it seems to confirm my fears, although a JVC representative who leaves the customer after such a poor result without doing something about it should think about improving their standard about customer service, especially if they don't provide an init file to revert their sub-standard calibration.

I would need to know which settings the JVC representative used for the gamma autocal, and what the set-up was, in order to assess whether it was the i1pro2's fault or incompetence on the calibrator's part. An i1pro2 would not be able to do a 33 point gamma calibration, but with some setups a 20 point calibration might be possible. In most setups, a 9 point calibration should give better results than what was reported.

Okay, so let me rephrase: until we don't get feedback from a competent calibrator/user, we won't know if the i1pro2 is usable or not.

I believe that correctly used according to the setup, i.e. using a normal (2.2) gamma during calibration, maximising the brightness (meter to the right side of the orange rectangle on the software during setup), and using only 9 points, an i1pro2 (not i1pro) should provide decent results with gamma and stellar results with color accuracy, especially for HDR/High Lamp (bright setups/modes).

Can't wait to try :)
 

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Yeah, there's a ton of variables there, it's basically impossible to tell where it went wrong. Was it the new broken autocal software to blame (is it broken, we don't seem sure), maybe the "representative" didn't really know what they were doing, maybe what we feared/expected with the poor low light performance is to blame....

It's not a good first sign though, that's for sure.
 

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is the rec.709 in first post obsolete and no longer recommended?
it does say the ones below are obsolete, does that mean just the ones on the next line? or ALL the ones in the post below that comment are obsolete?
 

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don't think that's for our models.
Correct.This thread originally started out for the X9000/RS600,etc series with Version 6, but now has a number of contributors with the newer RS620,etc series.
They are not interchangeable and it would probably help everyone's interests if someone with the newer series could open a new thread for their relevant Calibration Software.
Now that Version 9 is available for them, hopefully JVC have fixed the issues that were causing problems, but discussing those issues here is only causing confusion for people coming late to the party trying to calibrate using V6 on the older series.
:wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #1,890 (Edited)
Correct.This thread originally started out for the X9000/RS600,etc series with Version 6, but now has a number of contributors with the newer RS620,etc series.
They are not interchangeable and it would probably help everyone's interests if someone with the newer series could open a new thread for their relevant Calibration Software.
Now that Version 9 is available for them, hopefully JVC have fixed the issues that were causing problems, but discussing those issues here is only causing confusion for people coming late to the party trying to calibrate using V6 on the older series.
:wink:
Note that V6 is for Spyder 4, V7 is for Spyder 5. Both versions work on our models. Newer versions don't.

Edit: I had updated the thread title a while ago but the /7 didn't show after the V6, so I renamed it again to clarify the software versions discussed in this thread.
 

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Note that V6 is for Spyder 4, V7 is for Spyder 5. Both versions work on our models. Newer versions don't.

Edit: I had updated the thread title a while ago but the /7 didn't show after the V6, so I renamed it again to clarify the software versions discussed in this thread.
Thanks Manni01. Yes, worthwhile mentioning the difference between V6 and V7.
 

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Correct.This thread originally started out for the X9000/RS600,etc series with Version 6, but now has a number of contributors with the newer RS620,etc series.
They are not interchangeable and it would probably help everyone's interests if someone with the newer series could open a new thread for their relevant Calibration Software.
Now that Version 9 is available for them, hopefully JVC have fixed the issues that were causing problems, but discussing those issues here is only causing confusion for people coming late to the party trying to calibrate using V6 on the older series.
:wink:
I am sorry for the inconvenience.

I delete the V9 article to avoid causing confusion.

Thanks Manni01 and other member's contribution to this thread.
 

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ok here is where I'm at: JVC RS400 109 inch 2.35 1.0 gain Seymour AV screen, Samsung K8500 , bt2020 loaded , Spyder5 , Manni01 custom curves from the zip at the beginning of this thread. what i have noticed on my setup is one of the curves fits the Sully 4K perfectly on high lamp , just perfection, other titles look good , better than gamma D did but don't quite have the same pop. would like to maybe make my own custom gamma curve but not sure if i have the knowhow just yet lol how am i doing so far ?

thanks again for all the amazing info and hard work, although it can be a bit dizzying

any advice welcome.
 

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ok here is where I'm at: JVC RS400 109 inch 2.35 1.0 gain Seymour AV screen, Samsung K8500 , bt2020 loaded , Spyder5 , Manni01 custom curves from the zip at the beginning of this thread. what i have noticed on my setup is one of the curves fits the Sully 4K perfectly on high lamp , just perfection, other titles look good , better than gamma D did but don't quite have the same pop. would like to maybe make my own custom gamma curve but not sure if i have the knowhow just yet lol how am i doing so far ?

thanks again for all the amazing info and hard work, although it can be a bit dizzying

any advice welcome.
Here is my reply to a similar question on the RS400 thread...

i tried a lot of gamma curves that were saved over on the JVC autocal thread and in the rs600 thread. I still found the "brightest" ones to be too dark. I have a 136" 2.35 screen. I just got comfortable with the Arve tool and used the "speedguide". All you do is start the tool and load a HDR sceen that has a bright image. I looked through my 4k discs for a bright blue sky with white clouds and ended up using my Logan disk. They the tool loads a gamma curve that is highly saturated. All you do is lower the contrast so they clouds are not blooming and hit enter. There are a few tweaks but now i have a HDR curve that is the same brightness as SDR2020 or a bluray. Running HDR on high lamp.
 

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Here is my reply to a similar question on the RS400 thread...

i tried a lot of gamma curves that were saved over on the JVC autocal thread and in the rs600 thread. I still found the "brightest" ones to be too dark. I have a 136" 2.35 screen. I just got comfortable with the Arve tool and used the "speedguide". All you do is start the tool and load a HDR sceen that has a bright image. I looked through my 4k discs for a bright blue sky with white clouds and ended up using my Logan disk. They the tool loads a gamma curve that is highly saturated. All you do is lower the contrast so they clouds are not blooming and hit enter. There are a few tweaks but now i have a HDR curve that is the same brightness as SDR2020 or a bluray. Running HDR on high lamp.
well this is very informative ! thank you for taking the time, i thought you needed a peak white value to put into the tool ? but all in all this doesn't sound too complicated and really worth some time to get right. the right gamma in HDR really makes or breaks the PQ imo.
 

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well this is very informative ! thank you for taking the time, i thought you needed a peak white value to put into the tool ? but all in all this doesn't sound too complicated and really worth some time to get right. the right gamma in HDR really makes or breaks the PQ imo.
Yeah, a few of us prefer to do it that way, because it makes more sense to us, but no you don't need to do that. You an also just modify the multiplier directly, that's what really controls the curve. Javs and I (maybe some others) just like to set the peak white to what we measured and then mess with the reference white parameter. Just different ways to do the same thing.
 

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Yeah, a few of us prefer to do it that way, because it makes more sense to us, but no you don't need to do that. You an also just modify the multiplier directly, that's what really controls the curve. Javs and I (maybe some others) just like to set the peak white to what we measured and then mess with the reference white parameter. Just different ways to do the same thing.
how do you modify the multiplier? Is this is Arve or Autocal?
 

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well this is very informative ! thank you for taking the time, i thought you needed a peak white value to put into the tool ? but all in all this doesn't sound too complicated and really worth some time to get right. the right gamma in HDR really makes or breaks the PQ imo.
yeah, I read this thread for days and was just not grasping much of the terminology. Once I used the speedguide I did 3 different gamma curves in about 10 min and saved them. I tried to find one that best matched the brightness compared to SDR2020 or the bluray. In the speed guide he recommends curves where you will turn CR down anywhere from -20 to maybe -5. Mine is like -2 or even 0 as I do not seen much blooming. You will have to accept a certain level of blooming to enjoy a brighter picture. But honestly, once its set and looks great, you have no idea if its blooming or not. HDR looks so cool.
 
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