[Manni01]

Was your testing of the two Spyder colorimeters done strictly within CalMAN? I'm trying to make effective use of the Spyder 5 in the JVC calibration, and know if it's a dud or not, and if so, how best to deal with that. Getting it from B&H today.

No, I did an autocal with both the Spyder 4 and the Spyder 5 (facing the PJ), and compared the results using Calman and my Discus trained to my i1pro2 (facing the screen). My screen is very color neutral and has a near nominal gain, so doesn't account for much of a difference.

The Spyder 5 was more accurate facing the screen, but the Spyder 4 was more accurate facing the PJ, which is what matters with the Autocal. The Spyder 5 led to a drop in brightness of 10-15% depending on the mode (it was overcorrecting), so I sent it back.

I documented all this recently, just go back a few posts/pages. There is a link regarding how to test the accuracy of your Spyder in the first post.

 

[nathan_h]

thanks for this post as its been very helpful , I know repetitive questions probably get eye rolls here lol with that said is Arve's tool linked at the beginning of this thread ? I have found that for most titles that are around 1000 nit the image is too dark or crushed with the curves provided here , though my screen is only 109" 2.35, I thought about editing the curve in text to brighten it but I'm not sure what values to adjust , oddly the V2 curve posted back in April works perfectly for 4000 nit titles on my screen and i guess I'm trying to figure out why that is.

Are you in high lamp mode, iris wide open?

I have found that NONE of the additional tweaks (changing the soft clip, changing the multiplier, changing reference white, etc) beyond the speed guide settings white and black points do anything but make the results worse. This may be because of my own ignorance in how to use them. Either way, I can't guide you there except to say that I found none of those additional tweaks helped (but definitely run in high lamp, iris wide open).

In other words, if none of the downloadable curves are pleasing, definitely move on to using Arve's tool. Links in my sig.

 

[Macroblocker]

HDR Gamma

Are you in high lamp mode, iris wide open?

I have found that NONE of the additional tweaks (changing the soft clip, changing the multiplier, changing reference white, etc) beyond the speed guide settings white and black points do anything but make the results worse. This may be because of my own ignorance in how to use them. Either way, I can't guide you there except to say that I found none of those additional tweaks helped (but definitely run in high lamp, iris wide open).

In other words, if none of the downloadable curves are pleasing, definitely move on to using Arve's tool. Links in my sig.

yes I am using high lamp iris wide open on a 1.0 gain 109 "(using the zoom in method) " 2 35 screen , i started using Arve's tool and getting better results , going through the speed guide for help but have a dumb question , when using the HDR test patterns what gamma do i start with ? one i have tweaked already or something else .....or it doesn't matter ? I started with HDR setup. I'm learning as i go and its been rather enjoyable thanks to all the hard work done by Manni01 and others.

thanks!

 

[nathan_h]

yes I am using high lamp iris wide open on a 1.0 gain 109 "(using the zoom in method) " 2 35 screen , i started using Arve's tool and getting better results , going through the speed guide for help but have a dumb question , when using the HDR test patterns what gamma do i start with ? one i have tweaked already or something else .....or it doesn't matter ? I started with HDR setup. I'm learning as i go and its been rather enjoyable thanks to all the hard work done by Manni01 and others.

thanks!

Custom gamma 1 2 or 3 is fine. Doesn't matter whether you have tweaked it already. If you follow the speed guide you are resetting it before you make adjustments in Arve's tool.

And don't forget every time you play a movie you have to select the same custom and import gamma ever time the video starts.

Go to the disk menu? Manually select custom gamma again.
Stop the disk for a minute? Ditto.
Switch inputs on the receiver? Ditto.

 

[Manni01]

Custom gamma 1 2 or 3 is fine. Doesn't matter whether you have tweaked it already. If you follow the speed guide you are resetting it before you make adjustments in Arve's tool.

And don't forget every time you play a movie you have to select the same custom and import gamma ever time the video starts.

Go to the disk menu? Manually select custom gamma again.
Stop the disk for a minute? Ditto.
Switch inputs on the receiver? Ditto.

Unless you have/get a Linker/Vertex, which also give you the dynamic iris back in HDR...

 

[Macroblocker]

Unless you have/get a Linker/Vertex, which also give you the dynamic iris back in HDR...

its so tempting now that you mention it ! do you watch in Low lamp wide open or high ?

 

[Macroblocker]

Custom gamma 1 2 or 3 is fine. Doesn't matter whether you have tweaked it already. If you follow the speed guide you are resetting it before you make adjustments in Arve's tool.

And don't forget every time you play a movie you have to select the same custom and import gamma ever time the video starts.

Go to the disk menu? Manually select custom gamma again.
Stop the disk for a minute? Ditto.
Switch inputs on the receiver? Ditto.

Thanks so much for the info! trust me i know how annoying it is to deal with the JVC switching back to gamma D

 

[Manni01]

its so tempting now that you mention it ! do you watch in Low lamp wide open or high ?

I watch low lamp wide open for dark films (Underworld, Bourne, etc) to get best blacks and high lamp wide open with brighter/more colorful films (animation) to get the widest gamut/best highlights, unless it's a drama with lots of quiet moments, in which case I use low lamp as the fan noise can be distracting when the soundtrack is quiet.

 

[Macroblocker]

I watch low lamp wide open for dark films (Underworld, Bourne, etc) to get best blacks and high lamp wide open with brighter/more colorful films (animation) to get the widest gamut/best highlights, unless it's a drama with lots of quiet moments, in which case I use low lamp as the fan noise can be distracting when the soundtrack is quiet.

I'm a little confused about a few settings in Arve's tool, I am wanting to bring the brightness up a bit but keep the blacks from being raised and the whites from crushing detail. the confusion is between max bright ref white. I have run the HDR setup with the ramp pattern using Arve's color coding and adjusting brightness /contrast.

 

[stanger89]

I'm a little confused about a few settings in Arve's tool, I am wanting to bring the brightness up a bit but keep the blacks from being raised and the whites from crushing detail. the confusion is between max bright ref white.

Max bright and ref white work together to set the multiplier, which is what controls the overall brightness of the curve. bbo controls the black point, and the clipping point controls the white point, within reason, you can play with max bright and ref white without crushing black or clipping white. If you're using these controls, basically, increasing ref white will make it brighter, decreasing it will make it darker.

 

[Macroblocker]

Max bright and ref white work together to set the multiplier, which is what controls the overall brightness of the curve. bbo controls the black point, and the clipping point controls the white point, within reason, you can play with max bright and ref white without crushing black or clipping white. If you're using these controls, basically, increasing ref white will make it brighter, decreasing it will make it darker.

thanks ! i think i came up with something thats bright enough for low and high lamp with 1000 nit titles

 

[sotwell]

can someone comment on the specifics of how to use the "multiplier"? Where in the Arve tool is this? My example is that I would like to try and use the Manni DV Emulation curve but it is too dark. Can I use this "multiplier" in the Arve tool to increase brightness? Please explain where in the Arve tool and how to use. Thanks!

 

[billqs]

I finally got around to using autocal, and Manni's instructions were extremely careful, and the picture really looks amazing. I have a stupid question, but I think I did the wrong thing when I calibrated. At the time I was reading the instructions to calibrate I took CMD which we calibrate off and several iris positions and then back on in several iris positions, to mean Color Management.

I now believe that CMD is referring to Clear Motion Drive in the instructions write up. If so, then I'll have a bit more calibrating to do.

Thanks Manni and others for helping with these Autocal instructions and imported curves and color profiles.

Thanks!

 

[mason huang]

So I've done lots of tests today and here are my results:


2) Instead of calculating the new BT2020 targets from the rec-709 offsets as per Chad's procedure, it is possible to significantly improve the results in BT2020 by calculating specific offsets for the BT2020 profile using P3 targets (we can't use BT-2020 targets because our PJs can't reach BT2020, they reach 65-70% of BT2020 at best).

Manni01 hello, there are some doubts for you to ask.
Because I do not have calman, only chromapure, so I can not open the workflow you can explain the contents of the workflow?

So I've done lots of tests today and here are my results:

- Open the DCI-P3 workflow and measure the current user mode (still on reference, 6500K, gamma normal, high lamp, iris fully open). This will give you the reference reading at various levels of luminance. Copy the RGBW xy just as you did for rec-709, and copy them in my updated DCI-P3 spreadsheet.

I don't know how to reading at various levels of luminance?50 60 70 80 90 100...
I do not understand the definition of these numbers.
and use spyder4 or i1pro2 to reading?
Thank you.

 

[Erod]

Reference


Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

 

[Erod]

Reference

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

 

[billqs]

Got to add the HDFury Linker to the mix and holy crap does the use of a dynamic iris add a whole new dimension to HDR! I was using 2 of Manni's most recent curves and this time they didn't appear too dim. I'm going to force myself to graduate to Arve's tool to make my own curve, but I'm really impressed at the work so many helpful people have given!

 

[Dreamliner]

This is a work in progress...I am updating to include some information from here.

JVC Projector Calibration Software V7 & Spyder 5 DIY for RS400
(The RS500/600 has a color filter the RS400 does not, if anyone wants to PM me the extra instructions for this, I will add it.)

This step-by-step guide was put together from my calibration experience along with a handful of posts from this calibration thread and various other places. It is not as complicated as it seems, actually it is absurdly easy. This calibration thread has a lot of in it but there really isn't a single post quick start guide to follow. This is that guide. Props to Manni, who as usual, provided much of the data necessary to create this guide.


I read post 9, post 10 and this post. I also read this JVC guide.

I have a Spyder 5 and used JVC Calibration Software V7.

You only need to calibrate the picture modes with settings you actually use. I calibrated (these are the modes I use):

1) Cinema, IRIS -8, CMD OFF, Normal Gamma, Low Lamp (this is 100% of my non 3D & HDR content)
2) HDR BT2020, IRIS 0, CMD OFF, Normal Gamma, Low Lamp
3) Cinema, IRIS 0, CMD OFF, Normal Gamma, High Lamp
4) HDR BT2020, IRIS 0, CMD OFF, Normal Gamma, High Lamp

I also loaded the REC-709 color profile Manni posted (Rec-709NF at the bottom of this post). I'm told it is better and more 'accurate' than Cinema. I found it to be extremely similar to Cinema with colors being slightly less saturated. I've been very happy with Cinema, now I have both. I imported this REC-709NF profile using the same "JVC import procedure" as the BT2020 profile from the JVC HDR settings page. This is the same procedure to import Manni's premade custom gamma curves, too.

RS500/600 FYI (Does not apply to RS400 as it has no color filter): After loading the Filter color profile (e.g. Rec-709F), the projector needs to be turned off and turned on again for it to take affect and be calibrated. Apparently, a No Filter color profile (e.g. Rec-709NF) can be calibrated right away without power cycle.

I ran into a snag on my third consecutive color+ gamma calibration. It was taking FOREVER and when I tried to cancel, the software locked up. The projector went black and I had to kill the app and turn the projector off and back on again. Therefor, I recommend exiting the app and opening it again after each calibration.

Each Gamma + Color calibration only takes 10-15 minutes, so this whole thing took me less than one hour. Let the projector fully warm up for an hour or so before beginning this process.

I calibrated all the low lamp modes first, then switched to the high lamp modes I use. I have a scope screen so I actually use a couple different IRIS settings. I changed the IRIS and calibrated again; when I re-calibrated within the same mode like this, I switched the setting to 'Color Only'. There is some conflicting information, but it seems redoing gamma is necessary when switching modes (Cinema/Rec-709/BT2020), turning on CMD or when switching lamp modes. Color only saves quite a bit of time so if you are using multiple IRIS settings, you might want to consider it as it is much faster. I also did not close/reopen the app for the color only calibrations.

Here is the Calibration Software V7 & Spyder 5 DIY:

1) Buy the Spyder 5 (Hardware is identical for all versions so Express is fine). A camera tripod would be helpful, too.

2) Install Spyder 5 software and JVC Calibration Software V7 (I used a Windows 10 laptop). Shut off any power savings, screensaver, screen-off or sleep modes in computer settings.

3) Physical setup: The Spyder will need to be 'closeish' to the projector in the middle of the projected image, so set your gear accordingly. I set the Spyder on a camera tripod (it has a screw mount) in the exact center of the screen (height and width) facing the projector. The Spyder is then USB connected to a laptop on the side facing away from center. The projector just needs to be on any active HDMI signal to allow the calibration process to start (like a movie playing or something). The laptop display does not need to be connected to the projector. The room was pitch black. I dimmed my laptop screen to eliminate any room glow. The software process will show an illustration to help you adjust the Spyder to a proper distance from the projector, my Spyder was about 8 feet from the projector (this distance is determined by the light output of the projector), more info on this in step 7.

4) Connect your projector to the same network as your laptop and check the projector IP address in the projector settings.

5) Use your JVC remote to set your projector to the first mode you'd like to calibrate. You can see what I chose above. Be certain, no matter what, to be using Gamma Normal.

6) Open JVC Calibration Software V7. Click on the gear for settings. Enter the IP address of the projector and click check. Verify Gamma + Color is checked and Gamma Step is Normal. Enter your screen size and viewing distance. Take note of the backup file path. Enter the Serial number of your projector and click OK. Click on the 'Calibration' button on the left to start and walk through the calibration process.

7) For the sensor position step the laptop will show the Spyder 'location' in a yellow box on the laptop screen and will send a white image to the projector. As you move the sensor closer or further from the projector the sensor location will move inside the yellow box. You want the sensor to be as close to (but still inside) the right side of the yellow box on the laptop screen. If you look at the back wall, you'll notice a round reflection spot from the Spyder sensor surface a bit bigger than a quarter (like a mirror reflection); position this spot directly below the projector lens so you maximize the light input without reflecting light back into the projector lens.

8) On the picture mode settings screen you won't have to do anything because you already did it before opening the software by setting the projector to the mode you'd like to calibrate in step 5, but verify anyway.

9) After it is all done, feel free to screenshot the different graphs then click Save.

10) AFTER the very first ever calibration is finished and saved, IMMEDIATELY go to the file path folder (Documents by default) and save that newly created "Init" file to a few different places. That is the factory color/gamma settings the projector shipped with and is the ONLY way to restore it. You'll also see each calibration you do gets saved there too, but only one Init file ever and that Init file is only created AFTER the first calibration is done.

11) Close JVC Calibration Software V7. Set the picture mode/lamp mode/etc for your next calibration with the projector remote. Remember: Always Gamma Normal.

12) Repeat steps 7 - 9 until you've calibrated all the viewing modes/settings you typically use.

That's it!

Even the quick DIY seems long...lol. But these instructions are precise and idiot proof.

After calibration, feel free to check my post about custom gamma curves; step 3 is what your looking for there. Alternately, you can load Manni's premade custom gamma curves using Import/Export from the Projector Calibration Software using the same JVC import procedure but selecting 'gamma' from the pull-down menu on the import/export screen.

 

[stanger89]

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[GetGray]

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Wasn't on a real computer. Not as friendly. Easier to come back and cleanup later. Well, it was.