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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm interetsted in a 55-60" set. I saw both sets and thought they both looked good. I would like to hear the pros and cons of each TV as compared to each other. Thanks
 

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Here are some pros/cons on the current generation of sets from my experience...

Sony LCD rear-projection:

Pros:
  • good color performance
  • somewhat cheaper compared to other digital display devices (depending on model)

Cons:
  • significant "Screen Door Effect" SDE
  • below-average black levels
  • weak contrast ratios
  • response time issues (depending on model)
JVC HD-ILA rear-projection:

Pros:
  • virtually no SDE
  • superior color performance
  • ultra-bright (a pro or con depending on your preference)

Cons:
  • pincushion effect displaying 4:3 images unstretched
  • weak black levels
  • below-average contrast ratios
  • ultra-bright (a pro or con depending on your preference)
 

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I mostly agree with Jim. I have a 61Z786 and I thought the sides were bowed on a 4:3 image. I put a straightedge up and it was perfectly straight. It's just so big it's easy to think there's pincushion when there's not.


I'd say the black level is better than LCD, not quite up to DLP, but certainly good enough. CRT RPTV lovers sometimes get livid over black levels. Fine- it's about the only thing CRTs do better than microdisplays.


Since LCDs mostly still use organic alignment layers, and the JVC uses inorganic, the JVC may outlast the LCDs. But in normal home use, this is years off. In commercial, 16 hr plus a day use, it may be a factor.


You'll probably be happy either way. There's no right or wrong answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I went back again to look at the JVC this is my personal opinion viewing last year's Sony with the JVC.


Brightness goes to the JVC it's a very bright picture

Blacks: Both looked about even

Styling: Sony for me

Pixelization on fast moving scenes: Sony won this by a wide margin. The JVC set would show artificats in fast scenes. I couldn't see them on the Sony

Sharpness: About the same

Detail in dark scenes: About the same

Colors: Both looked great

SDE: I thought the JVC would be free from this but it wasn't and was about equal if not a tad better than the Sony.

Overall they are very close and I would have bitten for the JVC but the smearing on fast action scenes is a deal breaker. Interesting enough I saw a Samsing DLP Next to the Sony and that also looked great with an HD feed. I couldn't see any rainbows either. I guess I'll keep my Sony A20.
 

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As an xs955 owner, I'd view the Sony a bit differently than the above poster:


Good color, outstanding HD picture, excellent sound system. With available menu settings the picture can be customized to a wide range of tastes.


SDE is not an issue at appropriate viewing distance...even up close it's not a major distraction; black levels may be not as strong as dlp or crt but are still fine under most circumstances (unless you are sitting in a room watching the Sony and a crt at the same time I don't think you'll find the black levels to be bad); contrast ratios are fully adjustable and are fine; no motion blur....response time is fine.


Just another opinion.


edit: whoops....just saw your previous post...didn't realize you already owned a sony a20 (isn't that a new sony rp lcd?), was under the impression that you were interested in comparisons for a purchase. since you already own an a20 i'm not sure i understand the purpose of your post. never mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
hibeta we are on the same page here. I own the A20 and am keeping it after seeing the JVC. Not a bad set but the artifacts on fast moving scenes is a deal breaker. I can't see SDE on the Sony at the proper viewing distance but it definetely doesn't enhance PQ and I would like to see a set free of this. I said both set had great color so I'm not sure how your view is different. I have an A20 which is a little different then your set so the only thing I didn't agree with is the audio which sucks on the new Sony. On my last TV I had full speakers and a sub in the base.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeGuy
I went back again to look at the JVC this is my personal opinion viewing last year's Sony with the JVC.


Brightness goes to the JVC it's a very bright picture

Blacks: Both looked about even

Styling: Sony for me

Pixelization on fast moving scenes: Sony won this by a wide margin. The JVC set would show artificats in fast scenes. I couldn't see them on the Sony

Sharpness: About the same

Detail in dark scenes: About the same

Colors: Both looked great

SDE: I thought the JVC would be free from this but it wasn't and was about equal if not a tad better than the Sony.

Overall they are very close and I would have bitten for the JVC but the smearing on fast action scenes is a deal breaker. Interesting enough I saw a Samsing DLP Next to the Sony and that also looked great with an HD feed. I couldn't see any rainbows either. I guess I'll keep my Sony A20.


I agree with most of the posts. SDE is really non-existent on LCOS, so not really sure what you are seeing. Blacks are perfectly fine to 99% of people and I believe you will find some sort of pixelation on any microdisplay.


As I have stated in prior posts, I own neither, but sway towards the JVC as the colors are so vibrant and it looks much more film-like.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeGuy
I have an A20 which is a little different then your set so the only thing I didn't agree with is the audio which sucks on the new Sony. On my last TV I had full speakers and a sub in the base.
Sorry for the confusion when I said 'above poster'...I was referring to the comments by JimsArcade in terms of his assessment of the Sony. I was confused, though, as to why you were seeking a comparison when you had what I assume to be a brand new Sony.
 

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HomeGuy said:
I went back again to look at the JVC this is my personal opinion viewing last year's Sony with the JVC.


Brightness goes to the JVC it's a very bright picture

This is very much up to the individual, but most people turn down the brightness when they get it to the house. Having an ultra bright picture is not really a big plus, mostly to make the displays look good in the stores.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I still have 2 weeks to decide if I want to keep the A20 and that is why I was making a comparison between these two sets. I thought the JVC would be free of SDE and artifacts but it wasn't. There is a definite SDE on the JVC too. It's not visible at the proper viewing distance but if you get close you can see blocky pixels on certain scenes of the HD loop. On action scenes it was more pronounced. I thought that both sets looked great but I had to give the nod to Sony. A bright set can be a good thing if your room calls for it. Brightness is adjustable so I would rather have a set that is too bright out of the box then the other way around. We must all keep in mind that the feed and cables can vary greatly from store to store. In PC Richards they must have been using composite because the picture looked terrible. In Circuit City (No JVC) all the set looked like poop due to the poor setup or each set. Too many splitters or something but in Best Buy each set looked awesome so I could really do a fair comparison. I guess the other thing that I really disliked about the JVC was styling. It wasn't for me. The Sony looks a little conservative but overall I liked it better. The salesman said that quality control is not up to par with Sony too and that JVC had a huge recall in the initial release of the set. I don't know......... To be fair I say a dead A20 in sears so........
 

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"I just bought a 60" A20. The set has an incredible picture. I hooked it up next to my Toshiba CRT and it wasn't even a contest. The Sony blew the doors off the CRT for color, contrat (big time here) and brightness."


"I love my 60" A20. I tested it against every DLP and LCD RPTV and thought it had the best PQ, Color, etc."


"My plan was perhaps to return my 60" Sony and buy a smaller set like a 50". Then when the new Sonys come out I would put the 50" in my bedroom and buy the another 60". I got my set for a very low price (under 3k) so I'm not sure what to do."


"I think I convinced the wife that the 60" Sony will fit in the bedroom so I can keep this set and when HD DVD comes out I'll upgrade to a newer 1080P set if there is content to support it."



Considering your other posts (above) and now this one...you must really be suffering from some severe post-buying anxiety!! If you have already compared it to other sets and found it to be to your liking....why not just keep it and relax??
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
hibeta: Well I compared to everything but the JVC. But now that I have I can sit back and enjoy my set. I didn't know blocking was different then the SDE. Anyway, I also liked the Samsung too but in the end I'll keep my Sony.
 

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:edit: I wrote this while you were making that last post. I'll keep it here (since I spent a lot of time on it ;) ), but don't worry about it. Buyer's remorse is a terrible thing: always be satisfied with what you already have. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeGuy
I thought the JVC would be free of SDE and artifacts but it wasn't. There is a definite SDE on the JVC too. It's not visible at the proper viewing distance but if you get close you can see blocky pixels on certain scenes of the HD loop.
All digital displays have SDE. Only CRT's can produce an effective 100% fill rate.


LCD rear projection sets have a roughly 60% fill rate: the lowest of all the digital displays. Of course, that info comes from JVC's website, so take it with a grain of salt. However, you will find little argument that LCD RPTVs have the lowest fill rate, whatever that percentage may be.


HD-ILA/LCoS/SXRD have the highest fill rate (over 90% for the HD-ILA sets) of all the micro display RPTV technologies. It still has SDE, but far less than LCD.


As for artifacts, I've seen them too at some locations for both technologies. For poor video feeds, I notice it more on the JVC's. For good feeds, I don't see it at all on either set.


I suggest that you do not go by the video feed at the store: bring your DVD player and a DVD that you are very familiar with to a store that has both sets and ask the salesperson to let you hook it up to the sets (using whatever connection/setting you use on the one you own). Watch scenes that concern you on both TVs and see what the real difference is. Of course, DVD is not HD, but you should never rely solely on the feed in an electronics store.


Even better: if you have a laptop that has enough power to properly play a 720p movie clip (you can find several free ones at the Windows Media Player website) and can connect them to each TV... try that. (Hopefully you'll be able to at least connect via RGB, DVI or component.) That may give you an ever better indication of what each set can do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the info. I don't have any buyers remorse I just want to check out all my options while I have the time to do so. The Sony A20 is a fantastic set. If the JVC set was hands down better then I would return the Sony and buy the JVC set. The feed in the store had a good sampling of video with sports shots, movies promos, commercials, etc. It was a great feed and one that I felt comfortable with. At CC and PC I thought the feed was terrible and it hindered my comparison. The JVC showed boxy pixels during explosions in the Day After HD promo (excellent movie by the Way). On non moving scenes it looked great but no better then the Sony. I think the boxy pixel syndrome is a problem in all RPTV's that I've looked at. My dream set is void of these pixels. Perhaps 2 years out from now my dream set will be a reality. So taking into account styling, PQ, price, etc. the Sony is the TV for me. I was hoping that with low quality feeds that I wouldn't see any boxy pixels on the JVC. If that had been the case all other considerations would have been dismissed because for me it's mostly abou PQ. I would love to wait for the new Sony sets but it'll be a while before they are released and then a few months before they are discounted. As far as the fill rate goes I don't see a difference between the two sets so I don't think the JVC figures are accurate.
 

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I have seen the Sony A20 and was impressed with the PQ. The JVC D-ILA sets can look great, no doubt about that, however my impression is that Sony has better optics in their sets and better video processing/scaling boards.


Yesterday I saw the A20 near a Mitsubishi 52" LCD RP set, and it seemed to me the Mits had better blacks than the Sony. (Great, another fly in the ointment!) Anybody know why Mits has some LCD RP sets and some DLP? Interesting marketing decision.


Anyway, my guess is that any of these sets, once in your home and properly calibrated will look fine. It may boil down to the best deal price-wise. I'd actually prefer to wait for a 50" Sony SXRD set, but need something before next year. Ain't easy, is it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The Mits in insteresting because of al the inputs they give you. I've read many mixed reviews so I would like to see this set too.
 

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I saw both sets next to each other in the Arlington VA BB this morning. I watched them for about an hour, because I'm trying to make up my mind which one to buy. Where are the pro reviews when I need them?


The sales person said they were being fed SD signal through component inputs. The material was displaying accross the entire screen.


I thought both sets looked good. The 57" JVC D-ILA was not doing shadow detail as well as the Sony 55" A20. This was the main point where I noticed a big difference between the two, and it turned me off the JVC a little bit. I have no idea whether the sets were adjusted properly. Anybody know any place else in DC Metro area where I can see the JVC? My favorite shop (Belmont TV) doesn't keep one on the sales floor.


All the RPTVs and plasmas in the store had motion artifacts/blocking. By this I mean portions of the image change from a smooth picture to a blocky rendering when the image is moving -- like a bright face turning against a darker background, or a fireball expanding. I'm still watching a 36" Sony XBR WEGA CRT at home, so blocking is new to me (and driving me nuts). After I trade up, I'll be watching on Cox Cable (Fairfax County) through the newer Scientific Atlanta HD/recorder box, and I hope it will feed a better signal than I saw today.


The A20 and the 57" JVC both had some motion artifacts/blocking, but nowhere near as much as the plasmas. They had that Samsung DLP on a pedestal that's supposed to be better for preventing blocking too. I checked it out, and it didn't seem any better than the Sony or JVC on this point.


The JVC looked brighter and sharper than the Sony. But it's not like the Sony looked dim or soft, like a CRT RPT or anything. I can't handle the softness of a CRT RPT.


White lettering on the JVC showed a thin green line on the left edge and a thin purple-ish line on the right edge. The Sony didn't.


Neither appeared to have any hot spots, bands, or the like.
 

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I know that the Belmont TV in Laurel has the 61" JVC on display. At least they did about two weeks ago. I still like it better than the Sony, but not by much. They both look good to me, but I like the JVC just a tad better.
 

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Hey Deanbrew -- I talked to Ryan at Belmont's Arlington store. They have the 61" D-ILA there, too, but he said they're not even stocking the 57" (can get it in a week for special orders), and they're stocking the 52" but not displaying it. He said they're short on floor space, and they have other offerings in that size to display. Weird, since they're a JVC dealer and repair center.


Anyway, what did you think of the shadow detail on the 61" in Laurel? Was it as good as the 60" A20?


Thanks in advance.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimsArcade
Here are some pros/cons on the current generation of sets from my experience...

JVC HD-ILA rear-projection:

Pros:
  • virtually no SDE
  • superior color performance
  • ultra-bright (a pro or con depending on your preference)

Cons:
  • pincushion effect displaying 4:3 images unstretched
  • weak black levels
  • below-average contrast ratios
  • ultra-bright (a pro or con depending on your preference)
Sorry, but do you have a JVC? If so, you'd know it doesn't bow on 4:3 content at least mine doesn't with a tape measure. I haven't tested DVD, but SD does not bow. It's an optical illusion depending on where you stand.


The black levels are average, not weak. Unless you mean all RP sets have weak black levels then yes. If you meant they all have weak black levels, isn't that a given with RPs?


Below average contrast ratios? What are the average contrast ratio of the Panny, Sony and Hitachi? And what is the JVC's?



My pros/ cons of the JVC

pros-

-no SDE but some SSE

-accurate color OTB

-bright

-slick, small cabinet

-connections/turner


cons-

-some noise in dim lit scenes

-color banding


I'm not sure how other sets stand on the noise or color banding, but for color and size, the JVC had no competition if you can't stomach DLPs. The Sony has a nice pic once you get the red push out, but their cabinet sucks as$.


However, space and red push may not be a problem so it really comes down to which looks best to you, for your needs.
 
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