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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My dealer sent me a note. The DS1 is shipping. He will have a production unit in a week.


If anyone is going to Infocomm, hopefully they will have a unit there. I would appreciate opinions from those of you who are able to have a look.


I will also try to see a demo unit sometime later next week myself and will post what I see. The main issue will be, I think, just where we have ended up on the contrast ratio.
 

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Thanks, Barry,


I agree. The contrast will be the factor that makes/breaks this one. I'm going to InfoComm to see the DS1 and the Sony 11HT debuts (along with any other surprise announcements).


I'll try to post from the floor, if I get the chance.
 

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Marc,


The DS1 is the product that was originally planned as the 3010Z. 1300 Lumens, 1365x1024, UHP lamp, 39dB noise level and a mind boggling 100:1 contrast ratio...no, I did not leave out a zero there. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


Regards and good night,


------------------

Tom Stites

Director, Business Development

Digital Systems Division

JVC Professional Products

"My opinions do not necessarily reflect..."
 

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The DS-1 is a new JVC D-ILA that uses a UHP bulb instead of Xenon. Because it doesn't need to cool the powerful Xenon bulb, the unit is cooler and quieter than the Xenon-based D-ILAs.


It's as quiet as a Sony 10HT....and has the resolution and fill factor of a D-ILA.


Sound great? Well, it could have been a real killer projector, with those specs. However, there is definitely a lingering question about the contrast numbers. The jury is out on how well (or IF) the projector will perform for HT use until it can actually be seen.


The projector will debut at InfoComm in Las Vegas on June 13th.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Tom Stites:


I'm surprised at you!


Aren't you a sales manager for JVC?


Please restrain your enthusiasm for your product! He he he.


If, in fact, the DS1 is ONLY 100:1, then that will be a problem. The stats say 200:1. And who knows where it will end up after a proper calibration. But at least I'm willing to give the product a chance. It sounds as though you have already written it off.
 

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Tony,


I'm just guessing, but I would think that any replacement for the G15/G20 would have something to do with their new "Super Contrast D-ILA Projector" .


Call me crazy, but doesn't it seem like it would be a good idea to use this technology on the DS-1?
 

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Tom Stites:


Until now, JVC always distinguished itself by posting ANSI contrast ratios. Is the 1000:1 figure for the 5000SC still ANSI, or is it an ON/OFF ratio?


If it's ANSI, what is the ON/OFF value? And if it's ON/OFF, what is the ANSI value?


Thanks.


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Robert
 

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To All,


I've been in this industry a long time and if I'm known for anything it's credibility...I don't intend to lose that by hyping a product for the wrong reason.


The DS1 is a great product for some applications...it's just that HT is typically not one of them.


The M2000 that is shipping is a much better performing product than the current X20 series due to the new electronics package. Contrast ratios from the factory have been consistently running much higher than the spec.


We will also be showing a couple of new projectors at InfoComm that push the contrast ratio up higher with off the shelf product and come pre-calibrated from the factory. There are other enhancements that HT users will appreciate...stay tuned.


All though the pricing trend in most business projectors has been plummeting, these new products will be similarly priced to the current units but with much higher performance...you won't see G15 performance under $10K. Our products will give you truly unbeatable performance at a moderate to high price. With the higher contrast and new electronics, I will put our image up against any other fixed matrix technology in the marketplace, including 3-chip DLP.


Regards,


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Tom Stites

Director, Business Development

Digital Systems Division

JVC Professional Products

"My opinions do not necessarily reflect..."
 

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Tom, it's always a pleasure to see you posting here because we can count on you for the straight scoop.


Count me as one of the ones who is disappointed at the contrast ratio of the DLA-DS1. I'm curious--why isn't JVC able to get decent contrast out of this unit? Are you still working on it or is it just impossible?


Dan
 

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Dan,


The DS1 was designed around a single polarizing beam splitter system (PBS) as opposed to the 3 individual PBS blocks used in the other projectors. The original target contrast ratio of 200:1 is a very viable rating for general purpose business use and right on the edge for HT. I don't think I've seen a Sony 10HT that actually achieves much more than 160:1 so an honest 200:1 could have been a winner.


The single PBS design is more economical and compact but by it's very nature, cannot acheive such a high contrast ratio because of internal reflections and dispersion of the RGB light paths through it. I'm not an optical engineer but that is a very basic explanation. It was hoped at the outset that higher ratios could be acheived without sacrificing efficiency...as it turns out, this is the best we can do at the moment.


There are some other optical designs being investigated and some of these might offer lower cost along with better performance, I'm just not sure at this point.


I think it safe to say that the 3 PBS design currently used in the 15, 20 and 2000 product series will continue to offer the highest performance, albeit at a higher cost. Even the 3 PBS design can be improved with better optical coatings and better glass...just a matter of cost.


Regards,



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Tom Stites

Director, Business Development

Digital Systems Division

JVC Professional Products

"My opinions do not necessarily reflect..."
 

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Tom:


Thanks for the informative reply. So the 3 PBS approach can't be used on this projector, even at higher cost? I had this thought it would be worth it to get rid of the gold-plated bulb and all that heat and power consumption. (Just trying to save a few watts for you suffering Californians! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif )


Just a comment about any comparisons with 10HT. This is no longer the standard for LCD, witness the Sanyo projectors and the new Sony 11HT. I just can't imagine how this low contrast ratio would work in HT given the much higher performance being turned in by the new LCD and DLP units. And now it appears rainbow will be history on DLP as well with the 6 segment color wheel!


Dan
 

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Tom -


WRT the new products to be shown at InfoComm (and without asking for details that cannot be divulged) - will these be shipping this year, or are they more out in the future? IOW, if one were thinking of purchasing a G15 over the next few months, might waiting be worthwhile?


- m
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you for the detailed answer, Tom. Then my question back to JVC product marketing would be - can I have the best of both worlds, as Dan suggests?


I was initially attracted to the DS1 because of the UHP bulb. The UHP is cheaper to replace. Projectors based on UHP do not produce as much heat, hence they don't need an industrial strength fan churning behind your head. And I wouldn't need an air conditioner in the room - even in winter. I was willing to live with the poorer colorimetry. But I am not willing to live with 100:1 contrast.


If it is possible to implement a three-beam PBS with a UHP, that might do the trick - giving us back the contrast ratio - but with the same benefits, otherwise, as the DS1 was supposed to produce. From a positioning perspective in the market, I would still think that despite the higher price, the DILA technology would allow this unit to find a niche.


I will still wait for reports from Infocomm, but its looking like Sanyo for me.
 

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Dan,


We already have 3PBS systems in the current product line and that is the major reason why they cost more than the DS1. Yes, going to a UHP lamp and associated power supply would save some money but then you lose the colorimetry associated with the Xenon lamp.


I'm sure we'll have UHP lamp based units in the future that work pretty well for HT but, for now we've elected to stay with Xenon in these projectors for those who demand the best.


Regarding the new products, delivery of some of the ones that will be of interest to the HT market will be in late August or September...others will follow later in the year. If you were thinking about buying a G15 in the near term and have the issues of noise and heat dealt with, I wouldn't necessarily wait, especially if you will be using an HTPC. Otherwise, you might want to wait. The G15 will remain in the product line through the end of the year at least.


Regards,


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Tom Stites

Director, Business Development

Digital Systems Division

JVC Professional Products

"My opinions do not necessarily reflect..."
 

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Tom S.,

You can get pretty good colorimetry with a UHP bulb if you're willing to harvest the light carefully, as Seleco has shown. For me, the Xenon bulb is a killer. The thing I really like about DILA is the resolution and lack of screen door, which are both the best available (at any reasonable money). I don't know if you're supposed to say anything about other ways to get DILA-based projectors, but if you can, an update in that area would be nice.



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Steve
 
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