JVC NX5 too dim for HDR on 135" screen?

Craig Peer

· #2 · Sep 21, 2019

jsenger said:
I am considering a JVC NX5, mounted behind the back wall 21 feet from a 135" Aeon Elite screen (1.1 gain) in a light-controlled room -- would this be too dim for good HDR? If so, should I consider mounting on the ceiling closer to the screen, or any other options?

I'd mount it towards the close end for better brightness.

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skylarlove1999

· #3 · Sep 21, 2019

jsenger said:
I am considering a JVC NX5, mounted behind the back wall 21 feet from a 135" Aeon Elite screen (1.1 gain) in a light-controlled room -- would this be too dim for good HDR? If so, should I consider mounting on the ceiling closer to the screen, or any other options?

As Craig mentioned the closer you can mount to the screen the better. Light controlled room is one thing. Reflections from sidewalls, ceiling and floor back to the screen are another. Those reflections will negatively impact the image on screen. I think 21 ft is way too far back for good HDR. 135 inch screen is really big for the lumens the projector is capable of producing. I would also consider a higher gain screen if you cannot mount the projector closer and if you still require 135 inches.

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blee0120

· #4 · Sep 21, 2019

jsenger said:
I am considering a JVC NX5, mounted behind the back wall 21 feet from a 135" Aeon Elite screen (1.1 gain) in a light-controlled room -- would this be too dim for good HDR? If so, should I consider mounting on the ceiling closer to the screen, or any other options?

I would say that is the max screen size for that gain. You'll need at least 25ftL for HDR and maybe less with the new DTM. You should be able to get at max, 30ftL with HDR. So, you should be good for close to 1500-2000 per lamp life depending on your environment. It's best to get the maximum light output for HDR, but I find the DTM can benefit with similar settings that I have for my non HDR material.

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wombats

· #5 · Sep 21, 2019 (Edited)

jsenger said:
I am considering a JVC NX5, mounted behind the back wall 21 feet from a 135" Aeon Elite screen (1.1 gain) in a light-controlled room -- would this be too dim for good HDR? If so, should I consider mounting on the ceiling closer to the screen, or any other options?

I run the RS-2000 (NX7) at 170" (14.16') with a 135" Silver Ticket 16:9 1.1 gain and it's more than bright enough for HDR in my opinion. I do use MadVR which helps a lot, but I expect the October firmware update for the NX projectors will have similar benefits.

You don't really lose that much brightness back at 21'. I would try it out with your current setup and see what you think. The fans on these projectors are quiet by my standards, but it is audible from my seating about 4' in front of it when the lamp is on high. Black velvet all over the theater helps HDR content a lot more than projector distance in my opinion.

I run my lamp in low with the manual iris closed down to -7 most of the time; sometimes -10. For HDR movies I do run open iris and high lamp

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skylarlove1999

· #6 · Sep 21, 2019 (Edited)

wombats said:
I run the RS-2000 (NX7) at 170" (14.16') with a 135" Silver Ticket 16:9 1.1 gain and it's more than bright enough for HDR in my opinion. I do use MadVR which helps a lot, but I expect the October firmware update for the NX projectors will have similar benefits.

You don't really lose that much brightness back at 21'. I would try it out with your current setup and see what you think. The fans on these projectors are quiet by my standards, but it is audible from my seating about 4' in front of it when the lamp is on high. Black velvet all over the theater helps HDR content a lot more than projector distance in my opinion.

I run my lamp in low with the manual iris closed down to -7 most of the time; sometimes -10. For HDR movies I do run open iris and high lamp

Madvr and triple black velvet room make a huge difference for HDR performance and for picture quality. I would expect a light colored room without a Madvr video processor to have significantly different results IMHO. Your screen is mounted closer by a third so that will have an impact on HDR performance as well. You also bought the better projector in the NX7. I agree that the dynamic tone mapping firmware update will significantly help HDR performance but it will not do anywhere near what your Madvr does for picture quality even in just HDR performance. Just setting expectations for the original poster.

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jbn008

· #7 · Sep 22, 2019

skylarlove1999 said:
Madvr and triple black velvet room make a huge difference for HDR performance and for picture quality. I would expect a light colored room without a Madvr video processor to have significantly different results IMHO. Your screen is mounted closer by a third so that will have an impact on HDR performance as well. You also bought the better projector which has a little more lumens and a slightly better lens from what viewers of both NX7 and NX9 have reported. I agree that the dynamic tone mapping firmware update will significantly help HDR performance but it will not do anywhere near what your Madvr does for picture quality even in just HDR performance. Just setting expectations for the original poster.

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These bulbs seem to vary from unit to unit so it's not a given that the NX7 will be brighter than the NX5. My NX5, which had 550 hours on the bulb, was brighter than my NX7 (which current has only 50 hours). Just thought I'd throw that out there.

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skylarlove1999

· #8 · Sep 22, 2019

jbn008 said:
These bulbs seem to vary from unit to unit so it's not a given that the NX7 will be brighter than the NX5. My NX5, which had 550 hours on the bulb, was brighter than my NX7 (which current has only 50 hours). Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Agree there is always lamp brightness variance from one unit to another. Why did you switch from NX5 to NX7 so quickly?

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jbn008

· #9 · Sep 22, 2019

skylarlove1999 said:
Agree there is always lamp brightness variance from one unit to another. Why did you switch from NX5 to NX7 so quickly?

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I loved the NX5, but I figured I'd regret not upgrading before the price increase so I took the plunge (especially since there's no replacement this year). As a long time JVC owner (with a few Sonys sprinkled in between), I can say for sure that you can go wrong with any of these new 4K JVCs. What a great lineup.

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skylarlove1999

· #10 · Sep 22, 2019

jbn008 said:
I loved the NX5, but I figured I'd regret not upgrading before the price increase so I took the plunge (especially since there's no replacement this year). As a long time JVC owner (with a few Sonys sprinkled in between), I can say for sure that you can go wrong with any of these new 4K JVCs. What a great lineup.

I agree with that statement. I am holding out on true 4k until we get a true 4k laser capable of 3000 lumens. I know the JVC 4500 will do that but it is just way too far out of my budget. $10k is my budget for the unicorn I described. Sometime in 2023.

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wombats

· #11 · Sep 22, 2019

skylarlove1999 said:
Madvr and triple black velvet room make a huge difference for HDR performance and for picture quality. I would expect a light colored room without a Madvr video processor to have significantly different results IMHO. Your screen is mounted closer by a third so that will have an impact on HDR performance as well. You also bought the better projector which has a little more lumens and a slightly better lens from what viewers of both NX7 and NX9 have reported. I agree that the dynamic tone mapping firmware update will significantly help HDR performance but it will not do anywhere near what your Madvr does for picture quality even in just HDR performance. Just setting expectations for the original poster.

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All true except I was under the impression that the NX7 really doesn't have as much extra brightness over the NX5 as advertised. I could be mistaken.

I guess it just depends on how much effort you want to put in. There's no better projector on the market in the $6-$8k MSRP range than the NX5 and NX7 in my opinion. So the only way to get a better experience is to put in a lot of effort or pay a lot of money to get a much brighter and better projector.

If you do go through the work to move the projector forward, consider also doing black velvet and maybe a MadVR setup after we see how well the upcoming firmware works.

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DavidinGA

· #12 · Sep 22, 2019

I am running an Epson 5040 on a 150" 1.1 screen and HDR is amazing, but I have madVR running. Without madVR no, just no...

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skylarlove1999

· #13 · Sep 22, 2019

wombats said:
All true except I was under the impression that the NX7 really doesn't have as much extra brightness over the NX5 as advertised. I could be mistaken.

I guess it just depends on how much effort you want to put in. There's no better projector on the market in the $6-$8k MSRP range than the NX5 and NX7 in my opinion. So the only way to get a better experience is to put in a lot of effort or pay a lot of money to get a much brighter and better projector.

If you do go through the work to move the projector forward, consider also doing black velvet and maybe a MadVR setup after we see how well the upcoming firmware works.

I agree that all three of the lamp based JVC True 4K projectors are an outstanding value about to get better with the firmware update. Only complaint would be the lumens for those who don't have a triple blacker velvet room. Like you, I do but not everyone wants that.

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blee0120

· #14 · Sep 22, 2019

skylarlove1999 said:
Madvr and triple black velvet room make a huge difference for HDR performance and for picture quality. I would expect a light colored room without a Madvr video processor to have significantly different results IMHO. Your screen is mounted closer by a third so that will have an impact on HDR performance as well. You also bought the better projector which has a little more lumens and a slightly better lens from what viewers of both NX7 and NX9 have reported. I agree that the dynamic tone mapping firmware update will significantly help HDR performance but it will not do anywhere near what your Madvr does for picture quality even in just HDR performance. Just setting expectations for the original poster.

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He was not setting unrealistic expectations. The reason for DTM is to not dramatically deplete the light output and to measure the brightness scene by scene or frame by frame. The processing, scaling, and other PQ enhancements that MadVR offers do not have much to do with the new firmware, just DTM. There really should not be a reason to believe that the image will continue to be as dim as tone mapping for it is not measuring the highest brightness level to map the entire movie.

Not sure what you meant by the better and brighter projector. Are you saying the NX5 is better than the NX7 and NX9?

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skylarlove1999

· #15 · Sep 22, 2019

blee0120 said:
He was not setting unrealistic expectations. The reason for DTM is to not dramatically deplete the light output and to measure the brightness scene by scene or frame by frame. The processing, scaling, and other PQ enhancements that MadVR offers do not have much to do with the new firmware, just DTM. There really should not be a reason to believe that the image will continue to be as dim as tone mapping for it is not measuring the highest brightness level to map the entire movie.

Not sure what you meant by the better and brighter projector. Are you saying the NX5 is better than the NX7 and NX9?

The pricing and reviews of the JVC projector lineup answers your last question. No one said anything about unrealistic expectations. Very few people have seen the DTM firmware update but Craig and Mike both had really good things to say but neither of them would state the DTM would measure up against the madVR. No one would expect it to provide the overall improvement in picture quality that a video processor provides. In regards to HDR performance only, it may be quite a similar improvement.

The NX5 in a light colored room , throwing an image from 21 ft without the assistance of a MadVR will not look nearly as good as the NX7, throwing an image from 14 ft in a triple black velvet dark pit of a room using MadVR. Are you wanting to debate that?

.

NX5 is a fantastic projector as long as you are willing to put the time and effort in to treat your room properly. If someone is not willing to do so than you will not have the same viewing experience as the NX5 owner who does all he can to maximize the performance of the projector.

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blee0120

· #16 · Sep 22, 2019

skylarlove1999 said:
The pricing and reviews of the JVC projector lineup answers your last question. No one said anything about unrealistic expectations. Very few people have seen the DTM firmware update but Craig and Mike both had really good things to say but neither of them would state the DTM would measure up against the madVR. No one would expect it to provide the overall improvement in picture quality that a video processor provides. In regards to HDR performance only, it may be quite a similar improvement.

The NX5 in a light colored room , throwing an image from 21 ft without the assistance of a MadVR will not look nearly as good as the NX7, throwing an image from 14 ft in a triple black velvet dark pit of a room using MadVR. Are you wanting to debate that? .

NX5 is a fantastic projector as long as you are willing to put the time and effort in to treat your room properly. If someone is not willing to do so than you will not have the same viewing experience as the NX5 owner who does all he can to maximize the performance of the projector.

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The OP was asking if the image would be dim with HDR. DTM is just separate from the PQ enhancements that MadVR offers. You stated that it would be significantly different but you were referring to image enhancements outside of just DTM. Yes, MadVR is really good but I do expect brightness in DTM to be similar.

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jsenger

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 22, 2019

OP here. The room is completely light-controlled with black semi-gloss paint on the walls and ceiling, screen is 135" 16:9 with 1.1 gain. Projectorcentral.com's calculator says mounting behind the back wall (a nice look, reduces fan noise) at 21' would give 25 fL using their estimate and 30 fL using the manufacturer's spec. Is that bright enough for good HDR? Mounting it on the ceiling as far up as possible (14') gives 29 and 34 fL. Is the extra 4 fL worth it?

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Mike Garrett

· #18 · Sep 22, 2019

jsenger said:
OP here. The room is completely light-controlled with black semi-gloss paint on the walls and ceiling, screen is 135" 16:9 with 1.1 gain. Projectorcentral.com's calculator says mounting behind the back wall (a nice look, reduces fan noise) at 21' would give 25 fL using their estimate and 30 fL using the manufacturer's spec. Is that bright enough for good HDR? Mounting it on the ceiling as far up as possible (14') gives 29 and 34 fL. Is the extra 4 fL worth it?

I would mount as close as you could. The noise level will be nearly the same, but you gain brightness. A projector near the rear wall sounds louder than a projector a little ways away from the wall, due to less reflected sound.

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SirMaster

· #19 · Sep 23, 2019 (Edited)

JVC NX5 too dim for HDR on 135" screen?

I have my NX5 on a 140" 1.1 gain screen and play HDR in low bulb and it's plenty bright. I am getting about 23 fL. Although I am using madVR for my HDR tone-mapping FWIW.

I get about 29fL in high bulb but find I don’t need that much brightness.

My friend has an NX7 on a 172" 0.94 gain screen and it's also bright enough in high bulb for HDR with madVR, but will have to see how it is once it starts dimming. 200 hours in and no measurable dimming of the bulbs yet.

The new JVC Dynamic tone-mapping update makes it brighter than the previous auto tone-mapping at least with default picture settings.

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wombats

· #20 · Sep 23, 2019

jsenger said:
OP here. The room is completely light-controlled with black semi-gloss paint on the walls and ceiling, screen is 135" 16:9 with 1.1 gain. Projectorcentral.com's calculator says mounting behind the back wall (a nice look, reduces fan noise) at 21' would give 25 fL using their estimate and 30 fL using the manufacturer's spec. Is that bright enough for good HDR? Mounting it on the ceiling as far up as possible (14') gives 29 and 34 fL. Is the extra 4 fL worth it?

Black paint is not velvet, but still great in my opinion. You're all set. Don't bother treating your room.

Here's the deal on the throw distance. Do you already have a mount and a hole cut for the back of the room? (Replacing an existing projector?) If yes, absolutely give the NX5 a try at 21' behind the back wall. The fans on the NX lineup are not all that loud in my opinion (dead silent in low lamp), but having the wall muffle the high lamp fan will be great. You'll have plenty of brightness.

If you're installing the projector for the first time (mounting work not already done), you'll just have to make a decision. Is the reduced fan noise worth cutting a hole in the wall, or would you rather have a bit more brightness and an easier time mounting the unit?

Mike Garrett said:
I would mount as close as you could. The noise level will be nearly the same, but you gain brightness. A projector near the rear wall sounds louder than a projector a little ways away from the wall, due to less reflected sound.

Yes absolutely, but the OP plans to mount the projector behind the back wall not right at the back of the room. That's a different story. I say if they've already got a hole in the wall for the projector beam, use it. Not worth it to re-do the mounting and cabling, and the extra noise reduction will be nice. Otherwise, yeah just keep it simple and mount it close in the middle of the room. Not too close because you do want a little bit of a buffer (I'm right up against the limit because my room is only 201.5" long and I have a 135" 16:9 screen. The manual says to leave 8" of breathing room behind the projector which is even more important with black velvet on the walls).

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