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 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9497523

Quote:
Originally Posted by wm /forum/post/0


"So far JVC is indicating that there is no access to calibration tables via RS232. I am hoping this is incorrect but that's the word right now.


William "

Apparently JVC is saying that the RS1/HD1 is their first projector without any external access to the calibration LUTs (including shading!). This means that end users (including Wm!) can't improve on the shading or grey scale tracking on this projector!!!


Offering access to calibration data was always a given on prior JVC projectors and it seemed like they took it a step farther by offering user access to convergence adjustment but then this news hit! If this ends up being the case people need to deliver a message to JVC that this is completely unacceptable.


Everyone has assumed that uniformity and grey scale tracking would either be good out of the box or correctable with Wm's services, but if true this means that we're stuck with whatever is delivered to us. Because of Pearl/Ruby history, people asked JVC about the return policy for misconvergence but what will they do if the shading or the grey scale tracking is way off? Ugh!
 

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I saw wm post this earlier and surprisingly no one commented on it.


It would be great if we could get Tom or Lon's comments concerning this.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen /forum/post/0

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9497523




Apparently JVC is saying that the RS1/HD1 is their first projector without any external access to the calibration LUTs (including shading!). This means that end users (including Wm!) can't improve on the shading or grey scale tracking on this projector!!!


Offering access to calibration data was always a given on prior JVC projectors and it seemed like they took it a step farther by offering user access to convergence adjustment but then this news hit! If this ends up being the case people need to deliver a message to JVC that this is completely unacceptable.


Everyone has assumed that uniformity and grey scale tracking would either be good out of the box or correctable with Wm's services, but if true this means that we're stuck with whatever is delivered to us. Because of Pearl/Ruby history, people asked JVC about the return policy for misconvergence but what will they do if the shading or the grey scale tracking is way off? Ugh!


Well what do we do to get this solved? I agree that this is no good, and hard to believe that there will be no access to it. Surely with the production units this will change? Can Tom or anyone from JVC comment on this?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen /forum/post/0

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9497523




Apparently JVC is saying that the RS1/HD1 is their first projector without any external access to the calibration LUTs (including shading!). This means that end users (including Wm!) can't improve on the shading or grey scale tracking on this projector!!!


Offering access to calibration data was always a given on prior JVC projectors and it seemed like they took it a step farther by offering user access to convergence adjustment but then this news hit! If this ends up being the case people need to deliver a message to JVC that this is completely unacceptable.


Everyone has assumed that uniformity and grey scale tracking would either be good out of the box or correctable with Wm's services, but if true this means that we're stuck with whatever is delivered to us. Because of Pearl/Ruby history, people asked JVC about the return policy for misconvergence but what will they do if the shading or the grey scale tracking is way off? Ugh!


I talked to Alex Kobayashi of JVC (HD1 designer) at the PJ Hi Fi event yesterday about the subject of LUT access. He said the version of software used on the earlier models was not compatible with the HD1 due to changes in how the DILA panels are driven (analogue v digital). He then described the LUT setup they use at plant for calibration including a combination software/external measuring device. He said JVC were working on a solution to provide these calibration tools to the outside world but has yet had not defined the complete solution.


AVI
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE_COW_IS_OK /forum/post/0


So the only solution is to get a Processor with LUT control like lumagen or use HTPC LUT. Both will add a lot to total system cost. Disapointed, truly.

The bigger worry for me between grey scale tracking and shading is by far shading uniformity and unfortunately an external processor won't fix shading errors


Quote:
Originally Posted by dazerxxx /forum/post/0


I talked to Alex Kobayashi of JVC (HD1 designer) at the PJ Hi Fi event yesterday about the subject of LUT access. He said the version of software used on the earlier models was not compatible with the HD1 due to changes in how the DILA panels are driven (analogue v digital). He then described the LUT setup they use at plant for calibration including a combination software/external measuring device. He said JVC were working on a solution to provide these calibration tools to the outside world but has yet had not defined the complete solution.

Thanks for the update. Fwiw, I expected some differences as far as how the LUT's operate with the new projector and also how they are accessed but it sounds like we have a situation where there is no access at all and the current line from JVC is "we're looking into it".


This is really a sad state of affairs for a supposed "Reference Series" projector and further confirmation that this is really a mass consumer projector. Here people were hoping for a CMS type feature and what we're getting is actually "anti-CMS" and the first anti-setup projector.


It sounds like if a unit is defective it has to be sent back to the factory. The problem is how does one define defective when it comes to grey scale and shading?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx /forum/post/0


I talked to Alex Kobayashi of JVC (HD1 designer) at the PJ Hi Fi event yesterday about the subject of LUT access. He said the version of software used on the earlier models was not compatible with the HD1 due to changes in how the DILA panels are driven (analogue v digital). He then described the LUT setup they use at plant for calibration including a combination software/external measuring device. He said JVC were working on a solution to provide these calibration tools to the outside world but has yet had not defined the complete solution.


AVI

This sounds reasonable and promising. I've read in some other review reports there is a second removable "plate" on the rear of the RS1's case that most likely hides a second interface cable input (probably not a RS232 type).

If this comes to pass hopefully a special computer interface cable will be offered by JVC at a small cost for field calibration. Though William may have to start from scratch using this new input for his shading corrections..
 

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When I posted this limitation (amongst others) I was jumped on by the sycophants. After describing the soft image someone even posted that it doesnt matter as they de-focus thier DLP anyway.Uniformity has also been reported as poor, which is not surprising at this price point and technology. Why is it that there is no problem pointing out limitations in high-end gear as the owners welcome this. Criticism of the new budget/entry level consumer "messiah" results in attacks. Also the fact that JVC are altering thier warranty over the phone when dealing with customers at a hifi shop, and other problems are " we'll see what we can do", with an insistance that you PAY for the machine up front , and in advance , should set alarm bells ringing.
 

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The only thing annoying me about the RS1/HD1 that I found out today was the lack of a trigger output for my motorised screen which would be a pain. But if there picture quality is that much of a stepup from what I have now with my VP-12S3 then I will find an alternative.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyR /forum/post/0


This sounds reasonable and promising. I've read in some other review reports there is a second removable "plate" on the rear of the RS1's case that most likely hides a second interface cable input (probably not a RS232 type).

If this comes to pass hopefully a special computer interface cable will be offered by JVC at a small cost for field calibration. Though William may have to start from scratch using this new input for his shading corrections..

Whatever it takes - just so wm can work his magic (if need be)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen /forum/post/0


Apparently JVC is saying that the RS1/HD1 is their first projector without any external access to the calibration LUTs (including shading!). This means that end users (including Wm!) can't improve on the shading or grey scale tracking on this projector!!!

This is a huge disappointment and will very likely be a deal breaker for me. I've been working on my room for the past few months and it has gone slower than I hoped, but I will probably be ready for a projector in April or May. Hopefully that is enough time for JVC to reverse itself.


The RS-1 was the front-runner on my short list of candidates. This issue, if left unremedied, will cause me to consider the Sharp XV-Z20000U as my second choice or even the Sony VPL-VW50 as a somewhat distant third.


--Jerome
 

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Im also amazed that there seem only to be 3 overscan values (5,10, 15%) I'm used to total control. Does the crippled aspect ratio selection also mean there is no 1:1 pixel mapping.
 

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I also would like to know if it does 1:1 pixel mapping. I posted before and never got an answer or was not able to find it. Anyone?
 

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Quote:
Apparently JVC is saying that the RS1/HD1 is their first projector without any external access to the calibration LUTs (including shading!). This means that end users (including Wm!) can't improve on the shading or grey scale tracking on this projector!!!

So exactly what IS available in the way of calibration controls for either the trained professional or the ambitious enthusiast? Even if JVC were to have the units calibrated PERFECTLY right from the factory, with UHP lamps that calibration would be good for maybe a couple of hundred hours before it started drifting...MAYBE a couple of hundred hours. The truth is that lamps lose brightness and change color temperature the most during the first few hundred hours, so regardless of how good the projector looks brand new, it won't last long without recalibration.
 

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Everything is a compromise. Just when I finally let myself truly get excited, the rug gets pulled... I was willing to let go the lack of CIH and vertical stretch functionality but this is just terrible news!!


Search continues [secretly hoping JVC can somehow get this resolved -- seems impossible for us on pre-buy list?!].


Joey
 

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Totally dissappointed and also likely to be a deal breaker for me. Esp when you consider all projectors I know of currently at least allows you to access both offset and gain RGB. For us folks with grey screen especially, no way to adjust offset and gain is a big no no.


Hopefully JVC is going to come out and say something about this.


Oliver
 
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