AVS Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
77" A80J, 48" LG C1, X4700H, 5.1.2 Infinity Primus + Bic PL200
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I sent the Sony 40ES back, and once the refund went through was going to get the Epson 5025UB. But now, I "possibly" have the option to get a JVC RS4910 for essentially double the price ($1700 for Epson with free lamp, $29xx for the JVC).


I figured I would get the Epson, and in 3-4 years sell it and move to 4K. However the JVC deal seems really good, and I may be able to stretch the budget for it, but only if its really worth it.


Going on a 120" 16:9 Elite Screens 1.1 white screen, in a blacked out entertainment room. Projector 13.5' away, 7' high, 8' ceiling, screen is 2' above the floor. Seating is 12-13' from the screen, and about 3' under the projector. Planning to build a wall shelf to set it on so its right side up and easy to adjust.


Only content will be Blu-Rays and HD streams, with about a 75/25 mix of 2D/3D. I have 4 pairs of Samsung 3D RF glasses Id like to be able to use (I know the Epson uses them, unsure if the JVC does).


I didn't like the reality creation on the Sony due to the artificial enhancements. So if either has more artifacts from enhancements or soft image with their equivalent settings off, Id lean towards the other. I found the 40ES's black levels lacking on my white screen without an ND filter. I really liked the Sony's pop and color brightness, but in high lamp mode found it a little too bright on very bright scenes (until using the ND filter).




How is the real world lamp life between the 5025/5030 and the RS4910/RS49/X500R? With the JVC not being as bright, I would most likely have that in high lamp mode more often then the Epson (at least in 3D viewing), but mostly would want low lamp mode for longer life and quieter fan.


The 4910 will be 3 years warranty vs 2 for the Epson, but Ill be paying with a card that adds 1 year to manufacturer warranties, so it would be 4 vs 3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,811 Posts
Actually, I think you'll find the JVC is considerably brighter than the Epson in their best modes. Projector Review had the 5030 at 600 lumens or so in best (THX mode) and the JVC at 1200.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,622 Posts
The PR #'s for the 4910 are an anomaly, the 4910 is in the 900-950 range @ D65, still better than the Epson @ D65. The JVC is also quieter in high lamp vs. the Epson.

If you can get the 4910 @ 2900, that's a great price and will look better in the blacked out room.

you can use the Samsung glasses with the JVC if you get the Xpand RF emitter. the cheapest way to get one is to buy this kit:

http://www.amazon.com/EX105BT-Shutter-Bluetooth-Mitsubishi-Televisions/dp/B009ZW7SR2

it says Mitsubishi but this kit works fine with the JVC and you get the Xpand RF emitter included which will work with the Samung RF glasses.

The JVC's high native contrast is a treat to see in a light controlled/treated room.
 

·
Registered
77" A80J, 48" LG C1, X4700H, 5.1.2 Infinity Primus + Bic PL200
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Getting somewhat conflicting information on the lumens.


I will be using low light for 2D, and high light only for 3D to extend life and have lower noise. I was told low light calibrated would be in the 600-700 range on both of them, but the Epson would be brighter and better for 3D. In 3D I'm ok with going to living room mode on it, as brightness would be better then more accurate colors. Also, don't know what preset projectorcentral's calculator uses, but for my install puts the jvc at 14fl vs 22fl for the Epson.


Another slight concern, is its possible a may game once in a while on it. I bought a Samsung h6350 dedicated for gaming though, so I would maybe only do so once in a blue moon. If I go with the jvc the input lag would be too bad, and eliminate gaming as an option.


The jvc is that price as a b-stock, but still has normal warranty. Also not guaranteed to be in stock when I'm ready to buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,622 Posts
I've had all the current model in my HT for months of testing and can share first hand information. I use a calibrated Minolta T10 light meter and Display 3 Pro for calibrations and lumen measurements.

The reason you are seeing conflicting information on the Epson lumen output is because it has several non D65 modes that can crank out over 1000 lumens such as the living room mode. If you want to run the Epson in low lamp with correct colors, it's not going to be 600-700 lumens. That is what it goes down to when correcting grey scale in high lamp.

The Epson lag time is basically the same as the JVC, there is no gain for choosing either here over the Sony which leads this class in lag time.

It sounds like you already found the deficiencies in the Sony HW40 (agressive RC, average black level in light controlled room). Native contrast on the Epson is similar, low APL scenes are not near as convincing as they are on the JVC. You may also be taken back by the pixel structure on the Epson if you haven't seen these in person yet. Also, white field uniformity is noticeably better on the JVC vs. Epson.

perceived 3D brightness between the Epson and JVC will be similar, Epson is overly aggressive with color in 3D and I have to do calibrations behind the glasses to tame it a bit which also brings down lumen output. JVC is more neutral here. The main advantage Epson has in 3D is perceived flicker in the glasses. Not everyone is sensitive to it, but Epson has a lead on JVC here.

In the end, if 2D is your priority, the JVC has better image quality than the Sony or Epson. It's more naturally sharp without the need of image enhancement (reality creation or super resolution) and if you choose to use e-shift, it can be done subtlety without damaging the image. Native contrast is in a class of itself. If you like sci-fi or dark movies, Epson and Sony are definitely not as convincing as the JVC.

unfortunately if you need the best of all these features in 1 projector (top shelf 2D, 3D, low gaming lag) it doesn't really exist at this time and you have to choose the priority or go with multiple projectors like I have in my setup.

For your room and the priority set for 75% 2D, the JVC imo is the best choice.


edit: also be prepared for a specific low lamp and high lamp calibration on the Epson. Greyscale shifts quite a bit here. On the JVC, once greyscale is set in high lamp, it's very close in low and does not require a separate calibration.
 

·
Registered
77" A80J, 48" LG C1, X4700H, 5.1.2 Infinity Primus + Bic PL200
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Im upgrading from an HC2030, and I currently have no issue with SDE. With the Sony, I loved how much sharper the image was with RC on, but hated the artifacts from it. With RC off, I found the HC2030 to be sharper. If the 5025UB or RS4910 can offer even close to the level of sharpness as the Sony with RC on, but without artifacts, that would be the largest factor most likely.


I also don't see a difference in gaming on the Epson when using fast mode, other then text and slightly more aliasing. So the 5025UB would at least be usable on occasion.


I think the largest draw back for me with the JVC, is I was already planning to spend $3k on a projector when 4K was available at that price. I don't know if its worth it to put $3k in to the JVC now and in 3ish years sell it for a 4K. However on the flip side, if the JVC's eshift works well enough, I could hold off on 4K for a longer time period, while also having better image quality in the mean time. If an Epson or Sony 4K comes out in 3 years for under $3000, I don't see it being as high end as the JVC (resolution aside). So I could gain more resolution, but what are the chances of overall image being better?


I haven't seen the JVC, and until I tried out the Sony I was completely happy with the HC2030. I thought aside from black levels, that was generally how a higher end projector would look. When I got the Sony I wasn't expecting an actual HT projector to offer that much of a difference. It was a night and day difference. Is the jump to the JVC another night and day difference, or just a better HT projector with better blacks?






Also, slightly off topic, but Ive been considering getting a Darbee. How would that go with (or not go with) either of them? I need to read up more on it though. I was considering an Oppo BR player, but that wouldn't help 50% of my media collection being on a PC unless the Oppo has a Plex app or other streaming means.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
316 Posts
If you didn't like the Sony, I wouldn't go Epson. JVC seems to make a really nice projector. From what I've read, the only downfall is higher input lag and isn't insanely bright. In the right room, the JVC's I have seen (a few years ago) were very impressive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I recently purchased a JVC RS 4910 from AVS (great, great customer service!!) and I can tell you it is an outstanding pj for the money. I upgraded from a Panasonic PT 4000, which served me well for many years, but the 4910 is worlds better IMO. I had a Darbee DVP 5000 in my chain and it worked well with the Panny (Oppo 103 as the source). When i replaced the Panny with the 4910, I found that it did not play well with the Darbee, lots of what I can describe best as flashes of what looked like macro-blocking.

I tried both hdmi ports as many have suggested, I also tried a directional hdmi cable, but neither solution worked. I know others have had success with these methods, but I have not. I suspect that an Oppo 103D would be just fine, but I have no first hand experience.

That said, I have taken the Darbee out of the chain, and the 4910 has been flawless since, and quite frankly, I haven't missed it, it throws a great image without any outside help!!

BTW, Zombie10K is extraordinarily knowledgable, he knows these pj's in and out. I have been a regular reader (lurker) here for many, many years, and his threads regarding projectors are required reading for anyone in the market and doing research!!
 

·
Registered
77" A80J, 48" LG C1, X4700H, 5.1.2 Infinity Primus + Bic PL200
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Did some reading on the Oppo and Darbee. Didn't know the Oppo had hdmi inputs, so I wouldn't have to worry about my other sources.


So if the Darbee effect isn't worth it with the JVC, is it with the Epson? Would the Epson with a 103D have better sharpness/effect then the JVC without an Oppo or Darbee?


I was pretty much settled on the JVC last night, but had a financial hit this morning. Not sure I can swing it this month, which would mean waiting a couple more months for it. And unknown if B-stocks will still be available then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
368 Posts
Whooo, that's a $5K projector off MSRP. For double the price, I better get all the great things of the 5030 and the VPL40 in one when it comes to movie PQ. I found the RC issue completely OK after messing with NR/MPEG NR off the Sony, and it seems like D-ILA panels also fix the SDE of the Epson. Alas, compromises! My return period on the VPL40 runs out on Thursday, but since I'm not going above 2.5, I think Ill stick with it. And make a new screen at 80" instead of my current 92", which will alleviate some of the issues I get from sitting 7'6" away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
The Darbee effect on the panny PT 4000 was very noticeable and worthwhile. I believe the Panasonic and Epson pjs to be more similar to one another than either is to the JVC as they are both LCD and the JVC is LCoS (hence more comparable to Sony). I will say this, the RS 4910 without the Darbee has noticeably superior pq than the Panny with the Darbee in the chain. Adding Darbee (e.g. via an Oppo 103D/105D) to the JVC's image would also make it that much better...I say this because early on, I was able to have the Darbee connected to the JVC for brief periods and all was stable. Overall, it never did stay stable, hence it was removed from the chain. When it was in the chain and stable, there was an enhancement to pq, but not so much as there was to the Panny's pq. As I said in my last post, I don't currently have the Darbee in my chain with the RS 4910 and I don't miss it.
 

·
Registered
77" A80J, 48" LG C1, X4700H, 5.1.2 Infinity Primus + Bic PL200
Joined
·
2,176 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Got to see the X500R at a Magnolia Best Buy today. The room was fairly dark, but there were a couple 80" TVs on in that room, and the door was open letting in light from the rest of the Magnolia section.


Blacks were definitely impressive, and sharpness was excellent without any artifacts. Seemed like it could have used a bit more brightness for some more oomph, but in a fully dark room would have been fine.


The manager was showing it to me, and I was talking about being able to get a B-stock for just under $3000, and he went to see what he could do. They had an open box that he could go down to $3500 on, saying that was under their price, that if I could get it for $3k I should. The BB credit card would give 10% back though, so it wouldn't be all that much of a price difference, and at least I know that one is available.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top