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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, this is after about two hours of viewing both 2D and 3D material - I want to do some more this evening when I have complete darkness, since while I have blackout blinds in my room, there is some light leakage in the day.


To those not following my posts elsewhere, know that I own a VPL-VW-85. I purchased a VPL-VW90es, but because of poor optical convergence and motion handling issues that may or may not have been related, returned it. The opportunity to get an RS50 overnight presented itself, and I took it. So my comparisons and comments below are subjective and not side by side, but, well close enough.


Lest I be accused of gushing, let's leave these comments as preliminary and give me a few more days to evaluate more material and comment further...but here it goes...


Note that for the 85, there was no panel alignment required. For the 90, I needed to use shift and zone convergence, which may impact some if this.


My screen is an HP 2.8 gain - sources were a DirecTV HR-24, HTPC playing BDMV folders, and a Samsung 7900 3D BR player, all fed through a Denon AVR-4311, video convert off. 3D glasses were the Sony's/X103's for the 90es, JVC only for the RS20



Motion Handling/Fringing:

1st: 85

2nd: RS50

3rd: VW90es


In this category, the 85 does maintain the edge - with any Film Projection mode, there is no red green fringing that I can see, and Frame Interpolation renders the least tearing artifacts.


The RS50 comes in second, since I can invoice CMD modes 3 or 4 and not experience fringing. Modes 1 or 2 will invoke fringing (leading me to believe, panel alignment or not, the fringing on the 90 is panel/processing related). Overall high speed motion clarity seems a bit softer with the RS50


In third is the 90, since either Film Projection Mode 1 or 2 invokes the fringing.

Sharpness:

1st: 85

2nd: 90es

3rd: RS50


The 85 and 90 are pretty much neck and neck, the RS50 is a close third. Somehow, the Sony's always seem a tad sharper to me.

Contrast/Image Depth/Shadow Detail:

1st: RS50

2nd: 90es

3rd: 85


Need to do a lot more testing here in the evening, but the RS50, even in my non bat cave, had a deeper 2D image, with excellent shadow detail. 90es was close behind however.


Color Controls:

1st: RS50

tied: 90es/85


Assumptive, given the built in CMS of the JVC


3D Brightness:

1st: RS50

2nd: 90es


Here I was quite surprised. In Normal lamp mode, with the Iris clamped down -1 or -1, and 6500K color temperature, I felt I had an appreciably brighter 3D image than with the Sony, regardless of which glasses I used.


I will try to post a shot or two later through the glasses...


3D Sharpness:

1st: RS50

2nd: 90es


Much more detail with the 50, but of course, this relates to...


3D Ghosting Minimization:

1st: RS50

2nd: 90es


Sam is right - the RS50 is close to the Panasonic plasma. Almost no ghosting in the two IMAX titles (Grand Canyon/Under the Sea), much better front to back clarity. Really cannot tell you if the 90es convergence issue, (electronically fixed with panel alignment) would contribute to the classic crosstalk presentation, but I suspect there is something else at play resulting in difference in experience between the two projectors). I guess I could knock the RS50 out of alignment electronically and see if that causes a bloom of ghosting...


The only odd experience I feel, and I think this is less the projection of the image than how it is shot, is shallow depth of field - when foreground images are purposely out-of-focus: out-of-focus + 3D in general makes me feel awkward, like both my eyes are in the same head (insert jokes here).

Flicker Minimization:

1st: RS50

2nd: 90es


I would have thought the lower refresh on the JVC would make me sense the flicker more, but its not the case. I feel some fatigue with both, but less with the RS50, and less sense of flickering.

Fan Noise (low)

All tied


Fan Noise (high)

Sony's tied for quieter

JVC louder



I will post more as I go through this. Also, know that I am not compelled to keep the RS50 - there is a local AVS member waving cash to pry it from me, and Sony called today and will do an advance exchange if I wish...so I have all options. I will watch some more live action tonight and gain further opinions on the matter...but the shotgun wedding so far has produced a prettier bride than I imagined...
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·




I don't know what iPhoto is doing, but I cropped and straightened this before exporting - not a great iPhone shot, but you get the general gist - this is through the JVC glasses, Normal lamp mode, Iris -2, brightness -1, color temp 6500
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Insane seems so unfair


How about passionate?
 

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My honeymoon is now officially over. It sure is awesome being an htpc guy and having over 40 3d movies.


The only issue is Trang is comparing a defective vw90 to a non defective rs50(hopefully). I'm more interested in your vw85 comparison.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by omicronian /forum/post/19627377


This has to be a record of some kind. Starting a thread with nothing to say, comparing a projector you don't have yet to another we know is broken.

Hilarious!!
 

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It is unacceptable. Not broken. Plenty of Epsons are shipped with worse convergence. They are not broken, just poorly manufactured.


Your comment was very funny though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
first post feedback updated
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by omicronian /forum/post/19627377


This has to be a record of some kind. Starting a thread with nothing to say, comparing a projector you don't have yet to another we know is broken.

Tread gently, omicronian, I'm not trying to bash or obsfucate here - that's not my style. I started the post, got called away, and created a quick placeholder.


Also, know that in my ongoing conversations with Sony engineers, the panel alignment convergence fix, while not ideal for other reasons, would not contribute at all to ghosting or brightness or flicker or some other issues - they are different issues.


Frankly, if the information is not helpful to you, I understand - if everyone would prefer I don't post my thoughts, I'll stop...not looking to create a battle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by omicronian /forum/post/19627608


Oh look. I didn't see this coming.

On which test pattern do you see motion fringes ?

Not test patterns. Playback of NBC's HD football broadcast from last Sunday, some MSG-HD Ranger games, and other 1080i/60 content.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang /forum/post/19627087


I will post more as I go through this. Also, know that I am not compelled to keep the RS50 - there is a local AVS member waving cash to pry it from me, and Sony called today and will do an advance exchange if I wish...so I have all options. I will watch some more live action tonight and gain further opinions on the matter...but the shotgun wedding so far has produced a prettier bride than I imagined...

please continue - you have option to keep the 85, forget 3D, swap the 90 for a better model, keep the RS50 if it pleases, so I am guessing you'll make the best decision based on personal experience, not a bias to a particular brand / model.


edit: Thrang, can you comment on the brightness of 2d vs 3d? If you were following the JVC threads early on, Petri measured the X7 preproduction at ~600 lumens, quite a bit less than the rated 1300 lumens. Another member with his RS40 is stating the 3D mode is noticeably brighter than 2D mode.


Can you clarify this for us when you get a chance? thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k /forum/post/19627688


please continue - you have option to keep the 85, forget 3D, swap the 90 for a better model, keep the RS50 if it pleases, so I am guessing you'll make the best decision based on personal experience, not a bias to a particular brand / model.

Right, I have no bias at all - just the desire to to get what is best.


I own the 85, I own a 70XBR2 rear projection, I own a 7000cx ES 400 disc BR changer, I was a happy owner of a 5000es BR player...and I bought the 90 first...


I also owned a JVC HD750, have owned JVC HD camcorders, D-VHS players, etc. I was fair to highlight the 750's praises while registering my concerns about fringing on that year's technology...


There is no axe to grind one way or the other...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k /forum/post/19627688


please continue - you have option to keep the 85, forget 3D, swap the 90 for a better model, keep the RS50 if it pleases, so I am guessing you'll make the best decision based on personal experience, not a bias to a particular brand / model.


edit: Thrang, can you comment on the brightness of 2d vs 3d? If you were following the JVC threads early on, Petri measured the X7 preproduction at ~600 lumens, quite a bit less than the rated 1300 lumens. Another member with his RS40 is stating the 3D mode is noticeably brighter than 2D mode.


Can you clarify this for us when you get a chance? thanks.

Well, by default 3d mode is higher because it switches to High lamp mode, but I've reduced to normal.


Normal to Normal bulb mode, 2D to 3D, no, there is no way 3D mode is brighter...


I don't have measurement equipment - that will be for UMR's next visit. I will play with various settings in 2D to try and provide some subjective comparisons to the 90es brightness modes.
 
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