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A California appeals court has overturned the ruling handed to Kaleidescape in March 2007.


Read the details Here .

Article From CE Pro
 

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This could be devastating for Kaleidescape. Regardless of how it all plays out, the fear of shutting off the system will have a serious impact in short-term sales during what is already a crushing recession.
 

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"When it is a crime to do the right thing, then it is best to be a criminal."


Me - 2009
 

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No f***ing kidding Mark. You nailed it. Although the obscene piece of legislation knows as DCMA was bought and paid for by corporate interests and signed into law during the Clinton admin. And it was passed unanimously by the senate so both parties embraced it.
 

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Read through most of it.


Based upon my minimal legal training and my read of the issues, it comes down to the following. According to the DMCA, though there "may" indeed be practical and reasonable uses for technologies such as K's, since there is the possibility of it being used to perform an illegal act, it in of itself is illegal.


Hold on! Isn't this blatantly unconstitutional? Shouldn't they just go after the DMCA directly as this is "guilty before being proven innocent" as opposed to the other, proper, way around?


Why not go after any company making any product which could be used to do something illegal? According to the concepts behind the DMCA, you should!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious /forum/post/16990216


A California appeals court has overturned the ruling handed to Kaleidescape in March 2007.


Read the details Here .

Article From CE Pro


Amusing in a very dark way.


The Hollywood movie biz (more concentrated?) still seems to have less of a clue than the (more widely spread and not just Hollywood) music biz.


Not that that says much for either.


Only that from what I see there is more diversity (and exploration) within the 2 channel music biz; which seems to be driven by the ease of ripping CD discs; not to mention the rampant Internet copying of lossy 2 channel music.


IMO the recent 2 legal cases against (lives likely ruined due to large court punitive money awards) those private individuals who illegally copied/shared 2 channel music, will likely come back to haunt the music hawks and help the 2 channel music biz move into the new future.


The Hollywood movie biz is nowhere near this; and IMO if anything it hurts Blu-ray more than it hurts DVD.


Just a guess or two on my part.



Cheers
 

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Quote:
What does this do to the person that already owns several.

My guess is that it will not impact you. As long as your hardware works you will be okay. I would not bet that you will have support as the hardware fails. This is tremendously bad news for Kaleidescape. Long term prospects are dismal IMO. OTOH, I am not a lawyer.
 

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This has nothing to do with the DMCA per se. The court case is all about the DVDCCA license that Kaleidescape signed.


Other DVD ripping vendors probably do not have a valid DVDCCA license, and those manufacturers may indeed be in breach of the DMCA, but Kaleidescape is different.
 

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What I've come to love about experts is that they are so good with details.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosedale11 /forum/post/16991309


What does this do to the person that already owns several.

If K goes out of business because of this, you lose the metadata service (movie guide data). I wonder to what extent they use the service to enable proper ripping of DVDs. If they use this, then you may also have trouble ripping some DVDs in the future.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptrubey /forum/post/16991554


This has nothing to do with the DMCA per se. The court case is all about the DVDCCA license that Kaleidescape signed.

Good point, this was a contractual issue. And the first judge agreed very strongly with Kscape and all of the facts were on Kscapes side. I guess I will actually have to read the second decision
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm /forum/post/16992023


If K goes out of business because of this, you lose the metadata service (movie guide data). I wonder to what extent they use the service to enable proper ripping of DVDs. If they use this, then you may also have trouble ripping some DVDs in the future.

The system comes with a large amount of metadata installed on it (supposedly 100,000 DVD's or something like that), so it can even grab metadata if not connected t the Internet. And ripping can be done and data manually entered for discs for which there is no metadata.
 

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After they lost the first case the DVD association tried to modify the contract as follows ( http://www.cepro.com/article/kaleide...ainst_dvd_cca/ ) (another example of their sterling integrity, lose the case, change the contract):

Quote:
6.4. Certain Requirements for DVD Products. DVD Products, alone or in combination with other DVD Products, shall not be designed to descramble scrambled CSS Data when the DVD Disc containing such CSS Data and associated CSS Keys is not physically present in the DVD Player or DVD Drive (as applicable), and a DVD Product shall not be designed to make or direct the making of a persistent copy of CSS Data that has been descrambled from such DVD Disc by such DVD Product.

This would appear to allow Kscape to modify the system to meet the contract, though I'm not sure if it's practical for larger collections. But it would be possible to stick a changer in there just to hold the discs. Absurd I know, but still an option. Of course that could be somewhat difficult to find the space if you have 3000 movies stored on your system!


But the case here seemed to be based on the initial contract anyhow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosedale11 /forum/post/16991309


What does this do to the person that already owns several.

Probably nothing but this not over. Kscape will appeal the case and most likely ask that the ruling be put on hold pending appeal. Whether it is or is not will I think be immense. This could easily drag on for a while. All hope is not lost. One would hope/assume they have prepared for this and have other options on the table but that could be wishful thinking. I'm looking forward to receiving a press release from them soon.
 

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I could see a number of end game scenarios here. Yes, K will pursue their legal options and the ultimate outcome may not be decided for a while. If a worst case scenario occurs and they get ruled against with no ability to appeal, there are a variety of possibilities:


- Don't underestimate K's user base. Amongst the 1000s of systems they have sold, some have been to very big names in Hollywood. I could potentially see a play where those folks are reached out to by K to put the screws back on the studios. This would be a messy and complicated scenario, but an interesting one nonetheless. Yes, this could be the unfair "those with means getting better treatment", but what else is new? It happens all the time and since K owners tend to love their systems, I have a hard time seeing those with influence not exercising it rather than seeing K go away.


- While it's been a long time coming, the arrival of BR Managed Copy could actually help K. For one thing, they'd have a legitimate disc based movie business to continue running (in addition to music which will never be banned and the very real possibility of downloadable content and/or streaming delivery). Once the systems are in place to support MC processing and payment, there's at least the possibility that they could pursue trying to set up something similar for DVDs. It would be a lot of work and you'd have to get the studios to agree (I'm not even sure that the DVDCCA has the ability to license such usage), but it's a possibility.


- K can still operate their DVD ripping in countries that don't have the laws like the DMCA. I know, this is far from what they can do now, but it at least makes them viable. If they stopped selling the DVD rip functionality in markets where it was illegal but continued on in other areas of the business in those countries, existing customers would at least not be left hanging with no chance for support (whether K would be forced to upgrade the software in those markets to remove DVD ripping might be a very real concern).


- They could go "grey". While lots of other companies have gone the BYO decrypter route for DVD ripping, K has forged ahead as a legal solution. If they no longer had that in their arsenal, they could shift gears. Everything would stay the same (metadata, the actual process of copying data off the disc, workarounds for copy protection on specific discs (not access prevention - which is the only thing the DMCA bans), etc. All they then have to do is have the user install something like DeCSS. They could even write the app to apply the software to the system and give the user a link to a non-US source for it, with the usual legal "at your own risk" to make it as easy as possible. Does this knock down a huge benefit of K? Absolutely. But it does give them a very real way to continue on while still retaining DVD rip functionality. They wouldn't be the upstart trying to gain traction, they would be the established player forced to use a workaround.


Actually, this could very well be of benefit to K users. Think about all the things the K system doesn't do just in the interests of maintaining the legal DMCA argument. No content offloading to portable devices, streaming to computers, re burn of discs to replace damaged ones, etc. If K no longer had to keep up that fight, they'd be free to do all kinds of cool things that they can't now. Obviously, this is the option of last resort for K and one they probably do not want to turn to, but it is a very real option. I see them doing this rather then waving the white flag and shutting down.


The job now for K is to keep dealers comfortable. They need to reassure folks that this isn't over and that there's no near term risk of the product being banned. At the same time, they need to whisper that they also have a variety of plan Bs up their sleeve in case the court proceedings don't pan out in their favor. It's a bad time for this to have dropped, but at least they were able to build up revenue from sales when times were good, so that hopefully will carry them through this very large additional burden.


Jeff
 
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