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Thank you JaremyP for the well-thought out responses and input. Here are a few additional comments:

1. When I was purchasing media from the Kaleidescape Store (K-Store), I would often buy a title at full-price in HD. Once it was released in HDR/Atmos, Kaleidescape (K) was selling the upgrade for $36.99. These upgrades are sometimes less, sometimes more. K states the pricing is driven by studios. Ok. The bottom line is that media is often times more expensive and upgrades are at times ridiculously priced. I can go buy a shiny disc once for less, which gives me the highest quality audio, video and digital rights outside of K.

1.5 JaremyP is absolutely correct, the K experience is AWESOME! Far better than a disc. New releases do come out faster than a disc most of the time.

2. In the 3 years I have owned my Strato, I have seen many times where K releases video in HD, but the disc released is in HDR. It sounds as if JeremyP is indicating this has improved. Great, if it has! I built a high-end Theater and it is quite awesome in my opinion! I built it to play the highest quality audio and video. I personally do not like settling for some releases in the K-Store with Master Audio 5.1 when the studio releases the disc in Dolby Atmos as one example. It doesn't matter if it's K's fault or not, the result is not always getting the highest end audio and in my experience, video.

3. K has a great library, agreed. It unfortunately does not have all the titles we all want to purchase. That is a limitation, K's fault or not.

4. K has stated they have tried to get Movies Anywhere (MA). There is a thread a few pages back where this is discussed in detail. Many think K is trying. Many do NOT think K is trying. Those are all opinions. K is not helping the situation by not communicating to it's customer base, so it's only open to speculation. The bottom line is if you purchase a title from K, you can ONLY watch it on your K System. If you don't care about streaming that title on other devices or TVs and you don't need to own a digital copy of all the titles you purchase, then this shouldn't be an issue. For me, it is a huge issue. My family loves to watch movies on their iPhones, iPads, Apple TVs, PCs, etc. after we have watched it in our theater. It's comforting to know we have a huge digital library of all our movies if the physical disc gets damaged, lost, stolen, etc. When K went out of business, everyone was wondering what would become of their content. If K goes out of business again, we will all find out. Hopefully, JaremyP is correct and they will find a way to honor your purchases. It is a hope, not a fact. Perhaps you will lose all your purchases. With us having over 3,000 titles, we are choosing not to risk it.

@JaremyP , my system is used, but only with older content we already had when K had digital rights with Ultraviolet. Our goal in purchasing the Kaleidescape system 3 years ago was to get rid of physical discs, but at the time there were digital rights for almost all content and K was promising to get digital rights for ALL content. Now there are NO digital rights for ANY content. I also hated buying content from the K Store when the audio was inferior as described in #2 above. We didn't build our HDR Capable 9.4.4 Dolby Atmos Theater to watch content in Master 5.1 Audio or HD. We did do that for a while, expecting reasonably priced upgrades. It was disappointing to purchase titles with inferior audio/video at full prices (more than a physical disc in HDR/Atmos) then have to turn around and fork out another full price purchase for an upgrade. So now, we are very unfortunately back to purchasing all NEW content on physical disc.

As I stated in this forum and almost every post I make, I WANT Kaleidescape to do well. I want them to succeed. I have been supporting them for 3 years, but there are too many deal breakers for us to continue purchasing content from the K-Store. I do sincerely hope that changes. In three years, some things have definitely gotten better, while others have not. Again, the purpose of this post is not to bash K, it is to make sure future buyers are fully aware of the benefits and limitations of this system. I wish someone had done the same for me! I would have saved $5,000 and waited for K to resolve many of these issues.
A well balanced post, ,with one exception - lol you knew they're would be one ;)

The issue of video quality is the one thing that Kaleidescape have constantly got right. I don't think I've ever known a disc release in HDR before Kaleidescape have released, though I'm sure you're now going to hit me with a whole raft of titles. This isn't a change, but has been the case since UHD/HDR was introduced and as has been pointed out the number of titles available in UHD/HDR outstrips physical media by quite a distance.
 

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Thank you JaremyP for the well-thought out responses and input. Here are a few additional comments:

1. When I was purchasing media from the Kaleidescape Store (K-Store), I would often buy a title at full-price in HD. Once it was released in HDR/Atmos, Kaleidescape (K) was selling the upgrade for $36.99. These upgrades are sometimes less, sometimes more. K states the pricing is driven by studios. Ok. The bottom line is that media is often times more expensive and upgrades are at times ridiculously priced. I can go buy a shiny disc once for less, which gives me the highest quality audio, video and digital rights outside of K.

1.5 JaremyP is absolutely correct, the K experience is AWESOME! Far better than a disc. New releases do come out faster than a disc most of the time.

2. In the 3 years I have owned my Strato, I have seen many times where K releases video in HD, but the disc released is in HDR. It sounds as if JeremyP is indicating this has improved. Great, if it has! I built a high-end Theater and it is quite awesome in my opinion! I built it to play the highest quality audio and video. I personally do not like settling for some releases in the K-Store with Master Audio 5.1 when the studio releases the disc in Dolby Atmos as one example. It doesn't matter if it's K's fault or not, the result is not always getting the highest end audio and in my experience, video.

3. K has a great library, agreed. It unfortunately does not have all the titles we all want to purchase. That is a limitation, K's fault or not.

4. K has stated they have tried to get Movies Anywhere (MA). There is a thread a few pages back where this is discussed in detail. Many think K is trying. Many do NOT think K is trying. Those are all opinions. K is not helping the situation by not communicating to it's customer base, so it's only open to speculation. The bottom line is if you purchase a title from K, you can ONLY watch it on your K System. If you don't care about streaming that title on other devices or TVs and you don't need to own a digital copy of all the titles you purchase, then this shouldn't be an issue. For me, it is a huge issue. My family loves to watch movies on their iPhones, iPads, Apple TVs, PCs, etc. after we have watched it in our theater. It's comforting to know we have a huge digital library of all our movies if the physical disc gets damaged, lost, stolen, etc. When K went out of business, everyone was wondering what would become of their content. If K goes out of business again, we will all find out. Hopefully, JaremyP is correct and they will find a way to honor your purchases. It is a hope, not a fact. Perhaps you will lose all your purchases. With us having over 3,000 titles, we are choosing not to risk it.

@JaremyP , my system is used, but only with older content we already had when K had digital rights with Ultraviolet. Our goal in purchasing the Kaleidescape system 3 years ago was to get rid of physical discs, but at the time there were digital rights for almost all content and K was promising to get digital rights for ALL content. Now there are NO digital rights for ANY content. I also hated buying content from the K Store when the audio was inferior as described in #2 above. We didn't build our HDR Capable 9.4.4 Dolby Atmos Theater to watch content in Master 5.1 Audio or HD. We did do that for a while, expecting reasonably priced upgrades. It was disappointing to purchase titles with inferior audio/video at full prices (more than a physical disc in HDR/Atmos) then have to turn around and fork out another full price purchase for an upgrade. So now, we are very unfortunately back to purchasing all NEW content on physical disc.

As I stated in this forum and almost every post I make, I WANT Kaleidescape to do well. I want them to succeed. I have been supporting them for 3 years, but there are too many deal breakers for us to continue purchasing content from the K-Store. I do sincerely hope that changes. In three years, some things have definitely gotten better, while others have not. Again, the purpose of this post is not to bash K, it is to make sure future buyers are fully aware of the benefits and limitations of this system. I wish someone had done the same for me! I would have saved $5,000 and waited for K to resolve many of these issues.

I for one appreciate your post, it's very timely as I have been considering a K for years. Just finishing up my new theater now , have been looking at options from HTPC with NAS to the K. For the price, I honestly think the risk is just too great, unless you have media that you own once they fold. K has been on the fence teetertottering on bankruptcy a few time now as I recall, that is just not acceptable for the price. With limited content available and lower quality audio at times, I just don't see the value considering the risks. I have a huge library of movies that eventually I will put on a HTPC/NAS box , until then, I have a fine collection of movies that are easily accessible and fun to browse through with friends on movie night . Most come with full audio, HD, UHD 4K and digital copy so all can access from anywhere, and any device, some also have a 3D copy. There is one really valuable and very attractive component to owning a K that I envy however, and that is early release long before others. That is indeed an attractive feature that many value highly as do I , but not enough for me personally to overcome the other drawbacks. I'll remain old school for a while longer I do believe.
 
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All 24 James Bond films have been added ! The four Daniel Craig movies in HDR and the 20 ”older” in 4K SDR(UHD). Downloading them now!

Finally!!!

 

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A few notes about the Bond films on Kaleidescape:

Before anyone mentions Atmos, note that the 4k disc Daniel Craig Collection does not have Atmos on any discs in the set. None of these movies are going to get Atmos anywhere.

These are all big downloads, 80GB+ (some 90GB+) in most cases for just the 4k downloads. Note that the 4k Daniel Craig Collection discs are all BD-66s. Kaleidescape is consistently delivering greater than disc quality.

Note that iTunes has had the Bond films in 4k for a little while now. On iTunes, most are only 4k and only a similar subset is in HDR. In the long run, maybe MGM will HDR update more of the movies, but the 4 of 22 in HDR on Kaleidescape is based on available assets.

I've inquired about a bundle option.
 

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These are all big downloads, 80GB+ (some 90GB+) in most cases for just the 4k downloads. Note that the 4k Daniel Craig Collection discs are all BD-66s. Kaleidescape is consistently delivering greater than disc quality.

I've inquired about a bundle option.
In the case of Skyfall:-

4K/HDR Disc Rip (Movie Only) - 49Gb
Kaleidescape 4K/HDR (Movie Only) - 88Gb

Nice on on the bundle option.
 

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Replying back to more of @Aareses reply.

(1) I agree that upgrading HD owned titles to UHD in the Kaleidescape store has been a painful experience where you were re-buying titles at full price again. This has improved. Most studios offer digital offer upgrade pricing now which ranges from $11.99 to $15.99. Lionsgate, Sony, NBCU, and such prefer the $11.99 price. Warner and Paramount tend to prefer $15.99.

(3) This doesn't happen any more where Kaleidescape is missing UHD quality compared to disc. It was true before Kaleidescape had all the studio contracts they have today. As stated, there 300+ titles in 4k on Kaleidescape not on or coming to disc. Conversely, there are almost no titles left on 4k disc not in the store. I can name a few titles here and there (Conan (2011), Boss Baby), but we are talking maybe a dozen or so movies at most.

(4) I would really like this too. I agree. I can tell you though, verified, that MA membership for Kaleidescape is based on MA and not Kaleidescape.

I run Apple TV and Kaleidescape in my home. My DIY server is gone. My discs and disc players are gone. I have 2 watching areas (living room with TV and 2.2 audio and dedicated theater). There is an Apple TV on both areas and the Kaleidescape only in the theater. We use iPads and iPhones throughout our household. I'd like nothing more than buy once and access across all those devices.

Maybe MA can come some day. I encourage folks to pressure MA on Kaleidescape's behalf. Maybe some other solution can come about. It surely is a consideration though. Luckily iTunes moves come pretty cheap, so double-buying isn't always super painful. I own more on iTunes as well than Kaleidescape as I don't feel I always need every movie in Kaleidescape quality. I surely want/have some evergreen favorites there and then we tend to buy as we want to watch specific titles.
 
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I for one appreciate your post, it's very timely as I have been considering a K for years. Just finishing up my new theater now , have been looking at options from HTPC with NAS to the K. For the price, I honestly think the risk is just too great, unless you have media that you own once they fold. K has been on the fence teetertottering on bankruptcy a few time now as I recall, that is just not acceptable for the price. With limited content available and lower quality audio at times, I just don't see the value considering the risks. I have a huge library of movies that eventually I will put on a HTPC/NAS box , until then, I have a fine collection of movies that are easily accessible and fun to browse through with friends on movie night . Most come with full audio, HD, UHD 4K and digital copy so all can access from anywhere, and any device, some also have a 3D copy. There is one really valuable and very attractive component to owning a K that I envy however, and that is early release long before others. That is indeed an attractive feature that many value highly as do I , but not enough for me personally to overcome the other drawbacks. I'll remain old school for a while longer I do believe.
So I did the NAS/HTPC thing for a long time. I'd be happy to talk to you about it more offline as I don't want to derail this thread from it's purpose.

In the context of comparing Kaleidescape to DIY though, keep in mind:

1. Going DIY is basing your content source on a diminishing technology lacking hundreds of releases in highest quality versus Kaleidescape. If you are doing DIY as a quality play for the long term, it's not a great choice. It is a dead end media approach.

2. Ripping is time consuming and takes expertise to make sure you get the right stuff off the disc if you are making MKVs. You need to worry about picking the right playlists and dealing with forced subtitles. You're going to spend a lot of time. You need to rely on software that has come and gone and come again over time. You need to hope that the studios don't advance AACS again to make discs unrippable. There are a lot of caveats and gotchas to ripping that people do not give credit to.

3. Just about every playback method or device for your rips comes with kind of hurdle or compromise as well. Apple TV Infuse doesn't do Atmos bitstream. A jailbroke Oppo is an unsupported device from a firmware perspective and has a terrible browsing UI. You're going to spend many many hours and you're going to get frustrated with it many times. An HTPC in a theater is a maintenance nightmare.

In my life, right now, with Kaleidescape, I go to my room, power on, browse an elegant and simple UI, press play, and there's my movie in often better than disc bit rate quality playing stably and reliably. And my wife and kids can use it. :)

Folks mention Kaleidescape business risk. Any company has business risk. DIY has total loss risk. Let's say you rip 40GB of stuff to a Synology. You lose that raid array? Your content is gone, and you'll be re-ripping all over again.

To anyone thinking about starting down a DIY road today from a fresh start, I would absolutely recommend not doing this.

The money value of the time I put into DIY over the years makes me sick in retrospect and would have paid for my Kaleidescape system a few times over easily.
 

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Curious.. If a Hard Drive fails on a 6TB strato, what is repair cost for K to reinstall new hard drive?

Thanks!!
 

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So I did the NAS/HTPC thing for a long time. I'd be happy to talk to you about it more offline as I don't want to derail this thread from it's purpose.

In the context of comparing Kaleidescape to DIY though, keep in mind:

1. Going DIY is basing your content source on a diminishing technology lacking hundreds of releases in highest quality versus Kaleidescape. If you are doing DIY as a quality play for the long term, it's not a great choice. It is a dead end media approach.

2. Ripping is time consuming and takes expertise to make sure you get the right stuff off the disc if you are making MKVs. You need to worry about picking the right playlists and dealing with forced subtitles. You're going to spend a lot of time. You need to rely on software that has come and gone and come again over time. You need to hope that the studios don't advance AACS again to make discs unrippable. There are a lot of caveats and gotchas to ripping that people do not give credit to.

3. Just about every playback method or device for your rips comes with kind of hurdle or compromise as well. Apple TV Infuse doesn't do Atmos bitstream. A jailbroke Oppo is an unsupported device from a firmware perspective and has a terrible browsing UI. You're going to spend many many hours and you're going to get frustrated with it many times. An HTPC in a theater is a maintenance nightmare.

In my life, right now, with Kaleidescape, I go to my room, power on, browse an elegant and simple UI, press play, and there's my movie in often better than disc bit rate quality playing stably and reliably. And my wife and kids can use it. :)

Folks mention Kaleidescape business risk. Any company has business risk. DIY has total loss risk. Let's say you rip 40GB of stuff to a Synology. You lose that raid array? Your content is gone, and you'll be re-ripping all over again.

To anyone thinking about starting down a DIY road today from a fresh start, I would absolutely recommend not doing this.

The money value of the time I put into DIY over the years makes me sick in retrospect and would have paid for my Kaleidescape system a few times over easily.

All great points, appreciate your time to clarify. I'm not sure I really thought I would go DIY to be honest, every time I even considered it, the points you have shared were glaringly obvious, and to be honest, I don't have the time to rip. The cost of the Kaleidescape was not as much an issue as the fragility of confidence we have that they will remain solvent moving forward. Bottom line if they go under, as I understand, the unit has no further support. If the unit was capable of being used independent of the parent company as a stand alone NAS box where one could add physical content purchased separately, at least it could still be used as intended, albeit with a little more work . In that case I might entertain a purchase, as I understand, this is not the case . Until I have that kind of confidence, my physical library will work just fine, the DIY solution I may entertain later when I retire. I certainly like the idea of a Kaleidescape, especially early delivery of movies as in the theaters, I am admittedly very jealous over that one key aspect, the ease of browsing and playing a close second . Confidence is what I lack now, when they fix this, I'm in.
 

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All 24 James Bond films have been added ! The four Daniel Craig movies in HDR and the 20 ”older” in 4K SDR(UHD). Downloading them now!

Finally!!!

Haha I recognise the post :)) They have all downloaded now!

Best,

K.
 
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Watched Dr No last night with Angela. The colors are beautiful some close shots are unbelievable. Details not visible before(I've only seen this film 20 times) On M's desk in a wooden paper organizer the heading says "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" !

I did however notice that blacks were crushed many times in the film with loss of shadow detail all over the place. Odd compression artifacts as well watch as the opening scene with the three Jamaican blind mice crossing the street it looks like they are attached together with some kind of web.

Over all, fantastic experience seeing the first Bond film again.

Angela loves Connery and Craig Bonds so we shall see how many she wants to watch with me.

Art
 

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Nice!

I presume with such old content, there's a limit to the amount of improvement and clean-up you can do at times out of the original source without actually degrading or compromising it in some way. I don't know first-hand the kind of work and challenge that goes into this kind of restoration and encoding.
 

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would love to see K become a stronger platform as a result of this lock down: I have been helping by downloading lots of James Bond movies :)
 
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I will not be buying any UHD only films. To my eyes at least, the improvement provided by native UHD without HDR over 1080p, upconverted to 4K, is only marginal. I guess I have been spoiled by UHD and HDR, which I think is dramatically better than UHD only.
 
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