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Fortunately I never owned an AVR so I can't help with the poll. I put one in the system a few years ago just for testing and the family hated the complexity. My current, daily use (8 hr/day) pre/pro has been on 24/7 for over 11 years now and has never given me any problems. :)

Yamaha is also releasing HDMI 2.1 processors:



 
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My wife hates me with electronics. I have a tendency to hold onto things like AVR for a year or 2 and then change them out. Been through 3 receivers in 3 years and I’m even worse with PC and audio equipment, but I sell everything I’m not using instead of it just hanging in the basement storage.
 

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Discussion Starter #8,763 (Edited)
Yamaha is also releasing HDMI 2.1 processors:
That's good news! Do you hear any rumors how many ports will be 2.1? @stitch1 will be interested if more than one.
Yamaha won't tempt me without a 13 channel option...

Funny that you say your family thinks a HTPC is less complicated than an AVR. My wife would surely say the opposite. Probably just what they became familiar with. We've had AVRs on our family TV since we got married, Exclusively Onkyo, and their menu and button layout have been extraordinarily familiar these 15 years through several models.
 

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That's good news! Do you hear any rumors how many ports will be 2.1? @stitch1 will be interested if more than one.
Yamaha won't tempt me without a 13 channel option..
I'm haven't heard yet on the number of ports.
 

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Discussion Starter #8,767 (Edited)
Tomorrow night, Sunday 6/7 at 7PM (Central Time) will be our next group online meeting.

This time we will try Discord instead of Zoom. Discord is a free online comm tool that has no time limitation, allows group voice chat and a persistent chat room etc. MOltar set us up a room called Kansas City AVS
https://discord.com
Download it, install it
Then join this room:
updated-6/7/2020.
https://discord.gg/YN78T8


Try to have this setup before 7PM so we can get started on the chat. This won't be, or doesn't have to be a video chat, because...
.
-------------------------
.
During tomorrow night's session we are going to play a game while we chat called Golf with your Friends. *(which will negate the need for video chat). It's just minigolf. It does not require gaming hardware to work, any old PC or laptop will run it. It has great reviews and is enjoyable.


You can buy it on Steam, which is the most popular game client out there for $15. Link here:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/431240/Golf_With_Your_Friends/

You will need to download and install Steam regardless, however Steam accepts serial codes purchased from elsewhere, and if you want to save $5 you can easily buy the game key at greenmangaming.com for $10. Greenmangaming is another popular game site, and you'll just add that serial key they send you to your Steam game library. Greenmangaming does not have it's own game client so you will still need to install Steam regardless, it's just an opportunity through a different store to save $5 on your purchase price.
https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/golf-with-your-friends/

If you don't want to mess with greenmangaming and any extra complication, just buy it on Steam and keep it simple. Steam has a nice return policy on any game, so if you hate the game, you can return it for a full refund so long as it is under 120 minutes of playtime. I expect you'll enjoy the game though and this won't be a consideration. Assuming the group enjoys the game we can play again in the future if we like. I play with another group of friends fairly regularly and we all enjoy it. There are hundreds, if not thousands of user created mini-golf courses you can download in the workshop. The game is something simple and fun to laugh about while we chat on the AV hobby. All players hit the ball at the same time to keep the game pace up, ball collision is turned on, and some funny things happen because the physics engine isn't perfect. You simply use your mouse to hit the ball. Easy enough! (I'd recommend a mouse and not a laptop touchpad).
FYI - When you setup Golf with your Friends I would turn the volume down to 10% so you can still hear the rest of us on our group voice chat through Discord.



The Golf With your Friends multiplayer game name will be called Kansas City AVS, and password will be fun It should be online and joinable at 7PM tomorrow night.
Join the Discord chat and let me know if you are having trouble finding the game or joining.

Please purchase, install, and test the game in advance of our 7PM chat. I don't really want to waste time waiting for someone to download and get the game running at the time the rest of us are wanting to play.
Nearly all of you know my cell phone number. Feel free to text or call me before Sunday at 7PM if you need help setting this up! I'd be happy to help!

My Steam client handle is DeathWing. You can add me to your friends list with the following link through the Steam client friends list Add a Friend function.
https://s.team/p/nvf-wmj/hjjjcnrn


See you tomorrow night for a round of mini golf, some hobby talk, and enjoyable camaraderie!

Calling out a few other G2G host and attendees. Anyone with interest in this hobby can join, this is not by specific invite only. With the golf game, the more the merrier, up to 12 anyway.
@beastaudio, @rush2049, @SOWK, @SirMaster, @dlbeck, @Gorilla83, @lukeamdman, @femi, @desertdome, @popalock, @Scott Simonian, @HuskerOmaha
 

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RIP Hodor Theater...eventually.

I'm sad to say that as of yesterday, my wife and I are divorced (I guess ex-wife now). As she owened the house before we got together, she'll be keeping it.

I am still living in the house for the time being, but really have no idea for how long. So, barring a reconciliation, at some point the Hodor Theater will be no more.

I will be getting all the equipment, acoustic treatments, and pretty much anything not an actual physical element of the room, so a new theater will come to be, at some point, wherever I end up.
 

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Tomorrow night, Sunday 6/7 at 7PM (Central Time) will be our next group online meeting.

This time we will try Discord instead of Zoom. Discord is a free online comm tool that has no time limitation, allows group voice chat and a persistent chat room etc. MOltar set us up a room called Kansas City AVS
https://discord.com
Download it, install it
Then join this room:
https://discord.gg/dQCKqa

Try to have this setup before 7PM so we can get started on the chat.

-------------------------

During tomorrow night's session we are going to play a game while we chat called Golf with your Friends. It's just minigolf. It does not require gaming hardware to work, any old PC or laptop will run it. It has great reviews and is enjoyable.


You can buy it on Steam, which is the most popular game client out there for $15. Link here:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/431240/Golf_With_Your_Friends/

You will need to download and install Steam regardless, however Steam accepts serial codes purchased from elsewhere, and if you want to save $5 you can easily buy the game key at greenmangaming.com for $10. Greenmangaming is another popular game site, and you'll just add that serial key they send you to your Steam game library. Greenmangaming does not have it's own game client so you will still need to install Steam regardless, it's just an opportunity through a different store to save $5 on your purchase price.
https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/golf-with-your-friends/

If you don't want to mess with greenmangaming and any extra complication, just buy it on Steam and keep it simple. Steam has a nice return policy on any game, so if you hate the game, you can return it for a full refund so long as it is under 120 minutes of playtime. I expect you'll enjoy the game though and this won't be a consideration. Assuming the group enjoys the game we can play again in the future if we like. I play with another group of friends fairly regularly and we all enjoy it. There are hundreds, if not thousands of user created mini-golf courses you can download in the workshop. The game is something simple and fun to laugh about while we chat on the AV hobby. All players hit the ball at the same time to keep the game pace up, ball collision is turned on, and some funny things happen because the physics engine isn't perfect. You simply use your mouse to hit the ball. Easy enough! (I'd recommend a mouse and not a laptop touchpad).
FYI - When you setup Golf with your Friends I would turn the volume down to 10% so you can still hear the rest of us on our group voice chat through Discord.



The Golf With your Friends multiplayer game name will be called Kansas City AVS, and password will be fun It should be online and joinable at 7PM tomorrow night.
Join the Discord chat and let me know if you are having trouble finding the game or joining.

Please purchase, install, and test the game in advance of our 7PM chat. I don't really want to waste time waiting for someone to download and get the game running at the time the rest of us are wanting to play.
Nearly all of you know my cell phone number. Feel free to text or call me before Sunday at 7PM if you need help setting this up! I'd be happy to help!

My Steam client handle is DeathWing. You can add me to your friends list with the following link through the Steam client friends list Add a Friend function.
https://s.team/p/nvf-wmj/hjjjcnrn


See you tomorrow night for a round of mini golf, some hobby talk, and enjoyable camaraderie!

Calling out a few other G2G host and attendees. Anyone with interest in this hobby can join, this is not by specific invite only. With the golf game, the more the merrier, up to 12 anyway.
@beastaudio, @rush2049, @SOWK, @SirMaster, @dlbeck, @Gorilla83, @lukeamdman, @femi, @desertdome, @popalock, @Scott Simonian, @HuskerOmaha
Count me in!
 

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My first surround system was a $30 5.1 speaker set that was supposed to be for computers, but I used it for movies on my TV. It was when I still lived with my parents. I had to bring the rear speakers back from the front of the room every time I wanted to use them since I couldn't run any wires or mount anything, and couldn't have wires running across the floor.

Then, I got a cheap ($150ish) Yamaha a couple of years later, and had that a few years until my dog killed it by peeing on it.

After that, I upgraded to a $300 Pioneer model. Can't recall which. It worked well enough until 2010, when I redid my living room at my old house and stepped up to 7 channels.

For that, I got an Onkyo SR608 (I think, I can never recall the number) at around $400. That stayed with me until 2016. It was the receiver I used initially in my theater. I still have it in my living room today, but no speakers are connected, it's mostly just to let me connect more devices to my TV.

And, then I made the jump to the big leagues (or at least the minors?) and got the Yamaha A3050. It had an MSRP of $2,000+, but I got it for about $1,250. This is my current receiver.

I'll upgrade to something with 13, or preferably 15, channels at some point, but I'm not in any rush, especially now.

Never had a pre pro and the only separate amplifiers I've used are the ones for my subs and two of my ceiling speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter #8,774
@SOWK
@dlbeck
@femi
@carp
@JDontee
@chirpie
@rush2049
joined me for a few rounds of mini golf tonight. We played from about 7-9PM. Thanks for the laughs everyone. When/if you guys want to do it again, hopefully the ball collision functionality will be working again! ;)
 

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RIP Hodor Theater...eventually.

I'm sad to say that as of yesterday, my wife and I are divorced (I guess ex-wife now). As she owened the house before we got together, she'll be keeping it.

I am still living in the house for the time being, but really have no idea for how long. So, barring a reconciliation, at some point the Hodor Theater will be no more.

I will be getting all the equipment, acoustic treatments, and pretty much anything not an actual physical element of the room, so a new theater will come to be, at some point, wherever I end up.
Sorry to hear this Kevin. I hope you guys can work it out.
 

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Back to the receiver 8K HDMI input/output discussion, one can connect directly to an 8K HDMI display and then use eARC to send the audio back to the receiver. So anyone with an 8K display can really use two 8K HDMI sources. All the Denon HDMI inputs support all HDMI 2.1 features except 8K resolution so one can game in 4K with VRR using any input.

Yeah new HDMI cables, but only necessary for me when a new 2.1 projector actually comes out. So 2021 at earliest in all likelihood. The new cables will probably be spendy...probably will require active, powered transmission to pass that bandwidth at 40' or maybe optical, I haven't researched it all yet. I just know that 18Gbps cables at 40 foot pretty much already required active cables. :(
Note that bandwidth is all that is matters with an HDMI cable. As an example, I have a Lumagen processor. When I use UHD movie output as recommend by Lumagen, then the bandwidth is 9 Gbps (2160p, 4:2:2, 23.97 Hz, 10-12 bit). This means many HDMI cables will work even for long distances. The problem arises when a menu system of a 4K streaming device insists on outputting 2160p, 4:2:2, 60 Hz and the bandwidth is then 18 Gbps when one is connecting directly to the receiver or display. If there are 8K movies released, they will have a bandwidth of 24 Gbps and most "4K" HDMI cables should handle that bandwidth. Of course gaming is another thing and you will need the maximum bandwidth for the highest resolutions. The new Denon receivers will let one test their cables and find out the maximum bandwidth it can handle.

[MENTION=7847949]I actually haven’t read what is or isn’t included via update to 2020 feature set other than previous 8500 and 8805 owners will apparently not get the second Audyssey quickslave slot as that is not related to the HDMI board. Some of the owners were making a fuss about that, saying their AVR or prepro they paid $4K + for is now basically $2500 and they miss out on that feature + have to pay for HDMI board upgrade so they might as sell what they have and buy the 6700. JDSmoothie reminded them the flagships use superior DACs to the x6700h for what thats worth. Not sure what other advantages there are. If I see more, I’ll report back.
The X8500H uses 7 2-channel DAC chips for higher quality output on all channels. It has a separate amplifier board for each output channel. It has 13 amps vs 11 amps (X6700H) for a dual configuration system. While you don't get the instant switching of presets, you can upload various Audyssey presets using the Audyssey app.
 

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@desertdome can they do 4k 120hz with VRR?. From my understanding from their live stream is that only the 2.1 port could. That it needed 40gbps and that is what the 2.1 port was. The other ports are the same as any other 18gbps port but could handle VRR. Just not at 4k 120. More likely 4k 60.
 

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If anyone is available and wants to join myself and Jonathan we will be going over my theater build in Discord tonight at 8pm. I need to finalize things in my space like speaker placement and room setup. Discord link is here. https://discord.gg/DmszKh I’ll have a blueprint and a short, but dark video showcasing how the space is laid out.
 

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Regarding our Zoom call last night when I was talking about how I came to use Triad in-wall & in-ceiling speakers in my new, dedicated HT. Coincidentally, the same day was this post over on the Triad owner's thread. I didn't even know all this when I chose Triad with no reviews or demos to help in the decision process (the same could be said for my purchase of JTR subs). They were a blind buy. But the following is nice to know about my speakers.
I also had Triad in wall speakers as my surrounds in my initial build. I do think they make a good product. It is kind of an unfortunate reality that hidden prices and dealer mark ups are part of their business model. That business model doesn't mean the product isn't high quality but it could mean you are paying a little more for that performance versus something else. The dealer I worked with for my room was very specific with what brands I could use. It was presented to me essentially as quality control and that does make sense. They want to know the real data on the speaker that they are designing a room for and not many manufacturers provide it. Eventually their unwillingness to look at any other brands for any aspect of the room became frustrating. Most of their revenue comes from selling the equipment that goes into the room. It's not terrible or anything it's just the way it is.

Another big reason that custom installers spec Triad is they design architectural speakers around the product being hidden for a clean look. This is important to attract high end clients who will spend the big bucks. I sent in a sample of my GOM fabric and they color matched the speaker grill perfectly. It was pretty slick and looked nice installed.

So just to address the following quote from the Triad thread.

"With respect, I know it's frustrating to be an enthusiast and not see all the data you want.... but remember that Triad is trusted by nearly every top custom installer in the world. Not just average joe local installers, but the famous guys like Dennis Erskine, Anthony Grimani, Shawn Byrne who are building world-class theaters that win CEDIA awards. And, also, not only are these big names, they are also HT acoustics experts and thought leaders who don't just slap a product into a room and call it a day, these are the guys doing custom acoustic designs by making calculations based on what they know about speaker directivity / off-axis response. They would NOT use Triad speakers if they didn't have great measurements, i.e. consistent, predictable performance with low distortion and excellent off-axis response.

And Dolby trusts them to test and develop new technology, they used Triad speakers to demo Atmos when it first came out in 2014 and last CEDIA they chose Triad for their super high channel count Trinnov demo room which won awards.

My feeling is that is that if ALL of these top pros trust Triad in their flagship theater designs, what possible reason is there for you or me, amateur HT guy, to doubt that they are high performing products? What are you or me going to figure out looking at some spinoramas or polar plots that Dennis Erskine or Anthony Grimani didn't?

At a certain point, it's safe to accept even without a personal audition that Triads are superb performing, robust and reliable designs that do what they claim to.

I started collecting used Triad, "sight unheard", simply because of this reputation they've established. I have never heard anyone who owns them be displeased with their performance. Zero regrets. Sometimes people overthink this stuff."

My theater was designed by Shawn when he was with Erskine Group. Even after talking to Dennis himself I got nowhere in my quest for them to spec out equipment that wasn't behind a hidden price list.

I am fairly sure that certain custom installers who have a partnership with Triad are given detailed information about their speakers. It is baffling to me that they will not release that information to the public or allow a third party to analyze their speakers so the data can be known. You can find more data on the lowliest of JBL products than the most costly Triad.

When I went Atmos I contacted them again to purchase speakers and I was offered those Dolby partnership speakers that Triad developed. It was super secretive and they wouldn't even tell me exactly what the speakers were made of. Like not even driver configuration and of course not the price. It was this nebulous moving target but at every turn I was so very lucky to even have the opportunity to purchase them. In the end they were basically up firing drivers relying on reflection for ambience. As my Atmos journey continued over the years I went from Volt 6 to JBL SCS 8 and eventually to JTR S8's and each time moved them closer to my MLP. It turns out I just wanted something different than what the installer assumed.

I would not blindly trust the installers but I do have a lot of respect for what they do and I humbly submit that my knowledge is far inferior. I have fundamentally changed the surround speaker layout from my pro design and it has resulted in dramatic improvements. I would bet that if I installed a high end Triad surround in my current locations I would be impressed with them.

I was just drooling lately over the Triad Platinum LCR because there is a demo set for sale on Ebay. They are the main speakers in the best theater that Jonathon had ever been to a few years ago. A soft dome tweeter with a horn wave guide. I would love to hear some in my own room up against the JTR 212 3 ways.

In short for a blind buy I think you made a fantastic choice. It is a quality product no doubt and I can see myself owning them again under the right circumstances. What you will find on AVS over and over again regarding speaker choice is people basically poo pooing anything that isn't DIY because you must be some kind of fool to throw all that money away. But not everyone wants to make their own speakers. And not everyone wants their speakers to be seen. The price performance police just won't accept that.
Well said Grant!! To be fair, we have conducted our own internal analysis of Triad speakers running through a lot of tests, and they have come out smelling like a rose. I’ll say this, in my opinion, you cannot find a cheaper speaker that checks every requirement we have as designers than the Triad Gold Inwall LCR. I mean it checks every single last requirement. At the price point they are at, they are truly the best price vs. performance that we are aware of. To be perfectly honest, we do not rely on manufacturer specs, and conduct our own tests anyway. There are very fine speakers out there, but that particular one meets all of our criteria.

On another note, I have a box of 4 1” OC 705 panels if anyone is interested. PM me. I can meet up with you. Don’t have to pay shipping costs then.
 
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