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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, we know the Wii has wand control.



I chose those clips because the PC titles have a similar HD resolution, and you can see the hand movements as they demo the action. I'll edit and replace the clips with KZ3D demos if/when they are available.
 

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I bought CoD3 on the Wii. It was a lot of fun with motion control. (Other than the crappy way they forced you to use it to apply C4 and turn things).


I would certainly play Killzone 3 with motion control if they had a bundle.


The real problem I see here though is would I spend $30 for a camera, $50-$99 for "arc" and $60 for a game to do it? Probably not.


I think bundling a high profile game with everything needed for $99 would be a no brainer. Sure Sony would lose some $$ upfront but it would certainly get the controller out there fast.
 

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The 3D I don't care about. But FPS with Arc I can really support. That's just a much better control method than the thumbsticks for FPS.
 

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I always said that it would be successful for a FPS to marry the controls of the Wii with the hi-def graphics and sound that everyone loves. The Wii controls really combine the best of the controls from the console (analog stick movement FTW) with the "point-and shoot" accuracy of a mouse. Can't wait to see how the ARC is implemented with the PS3. Does it have an IR pointer function like the Wiimote?
 

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hmm, sounds interesting. I will have to check the vids when I get home.


Since they're pushing K3 for christmas, I wonder where does that leave R3.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazylik /forum/post/18254378


hmm, sounds interesting. I will have to check the vids when I get home.


Since they're pushing K3 for christmas, I wonder where does that leave R3.

AFAIC they can take ANOTHER two years to fix the MP they so successfully ruined with R2.
 

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I dont know about wand pointing a FPS. I've grown VERY accustomed to the R3 stick. I think I would struggle with a redicule that moves within the screen(prolly why Im horrible at chopper gunner), how would you make the screen turn? Taking the redicule to the edge of the screen and waiting for the screen to turn like in that video seems off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Watch the last 1/4th of the first video.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing /forum/post/18254245


The 3D I don't care about. But FPS with Arc I can really support. That's just a much better control method than the thumbsticks for FPS.

no really, its not... try it sometime, motion controls and FPS are terrible
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonies /forum/post/18258566


no really, its not... try it sometime, motion controls and FPS are terrible

Worked great in Metroid Prime 3 and Resident Evil 4 (I know that's not an FPS, but same idea; aiming with the wand).


Personally, I can't wait for an Arc-supporting RE5.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martez /forum/post/18258771


Worked great in Metroid Prime 3 and Resident Evil 4 (I know that's not an FPS, but same idea; aiming with the wand).


Personally, I can't wait for an Arc-supporting RE5.

the FOV in metroid is linear (only 90ish degrees) its not a FPS where you have to turn around 360 degrees and be accurate. Also the accuracy in metroid is not anywhere near as important as in a FPS hell the crosshair in the game is HUGE. do you really want to be sniping someone with a crappy wand? trust me you don't. You want to see how bad a FPS sucks with motion control go play medal of honor for Wii, its awful
 

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I don't like the control scheme of the Wii Wand with COD. I like the idea of aiming around the screen (not holding off in the center like with most FPS today) with a similar device for the PS3, so long the aiming is not included with turning the character or perspective around 360 degrees. So far, I've seen nothing coming soon with that feature. To be honest, I have no idea how anybody would.
 

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Maybe you're used to it, but I find it completely impossible to aim with a thumbstick. Any degree of accuracy is just impossible, a nudge jumps the cursor too far. By the time I'm finished aiming I've been shot two or three times. I'm used to either the mouse or the old light gun games like Area 51. It seemed to me the only practical way to point with a normal controller in a first person game was done like Ocarina of Time or Devil May Cry - locking on to the nearest target.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moothemagiccow /forum/post/18259335


Maybe you're used to it, but I find it completely impossible to aim with a thumbstick. Any degree of accuracy is just impossible, a nudge jumps the cursor too far. By the time I'm finished aiming I've been shot two or three times. I'm used to either the mouse or the old light gun games like Area 51. It seemed to me the only practical way to point with a normal controller in a first person game was done like Ocarina of Time or Devil May Cry - locking on to the nearest target.

you're either bad or need practice, I grew up using a keyboard and mouse and while yes it was way more accurate back in the day I have adapted quite well to the console controllers. Just remember that PS3 controllers are not binary, there is a bit of touch to them, my friend always slams the stick all the way one way or the other and wonders why he sucks and can't hit anything, when I tell him to use more touch and don't move the controller so much he gets better again. but trust me, motion controls on non-fixed FOVs sucks
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Trust someone who openly admits he's worse with a mouse than a control pad stick for aiming? That's hilarious. In each and every game that's come out on console that has allowed both input methods, the thumbstickers get destroyed by a competent mouse played, as expected. Developers who port games for PC or console after first making the other actually adjust the difficulty a lot of times just to make it easier to hit things on the console (auto aim, lock on aids, or dumb down enemy A.I. movement), or make them harder to hit them on PC if that version came second.


It's not even seriously debated in the real world. Developers have been trying for years to see if they can do it (fairly matching the two inputs without gimping mouse controls) and they simply can not do it, so they've given up.


With a mouse, you can simply look at an x/y position on your screen and can almost instantly whip the cursor to that spot before you pull the trigger. Your control over the rate of speed as you aim is extremely precise, unlike the thumbstick where you have to approximate the speed adjustment as you move. Strafing on console is used to help compensate for this lack of precision, but you never have to strafe to aim with the mouse. The level of sensitivity and responsiveness is not equal between the two methods.


For instance, if each control method can move you in any direction from, say, 1 to 1000 in speed, any decent mouse player can adjust from 30 speed to a gradual 300 speed to a near instant 700 speed and back down to 10 speed, all in different directions within a two second time period with little effort. The thumbstick control is simply unable to match that level of precision. It is impossible. You can't increase/decrease speed that smoothly, that quickly, and certainly not with pixel-perfect stop on a dime accuracy. Anyone who has played Counterstrike knows how effortlessly you can jump, whip around 180 degrees in the air and skillfully headshot a moving target up high on a bridge a quarter of a map away with your AK-47.


Here's a test for anyone.... if you are reading this on a computer, try and "write" your first and last name in cursive on the screen with the arrow as quickly as you can using the mouse. Even without seeing the results, you'll know that you did a competent job of it. Now switch on the PS3 browser and try to spell your name in cursive again with the arrow using the thumbstick. Clumsy ain't it? Even if you tweaked the sensitivity and practiced for ten years straight with the stick, you won't ever match the speed and precision of the mouse. Ignoring the speed difference, you'll have to admit that you are still writing smoother and more accurately with a mouse.


Actually, these 1:1 wand control inputs actually have the potential to be more precise for average gamers than the mouse, but I'd be happy with it simply matching the precision. My brother is a casual and never could quite get mouse control down in FPS battles since he doesn't practice a lot, but for light gun games he is an expert marksman. These wand controllers are closer to light gun styled inputs than we've ever had (except for light guns themselves of course), so I'll be interested in seeing how quickly he catches on to something like the Arc.


EDIT: Here's a quote from the developer of the FPS title "The Agency" coming for PC and PS3 that states the obvious - unless you unfairly gimp mouse controls or unfairly buff up console control (with auto aim, etc.) they are unequal:

Quote:
The second problem is gameplay balance, as the difference between PC mouse-and-keyboard versus the PS3's controls gains particular weight with a shooter.


"We can do things to equalize them, whether that's aim assist on the console or other things on the PC, but when we've actually done focus group testing and so forth, you're always going to have the console players versus the PC players," Wilson says. "There's always a dynamic of 'It's not fair!' for whatever reason. So, it is important that we take those considerations on that."
 

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I have no idea why you're comparing mouse and keyboard to console controls... everyone with a brain knows that M&K is superior...


We're debating console controller vs. motion control, and there is one that is far more accurate and easy to use and everyone with a brain knows which one that is.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonies /forum/post/18261018


I have no idea why you're comparing mouse and keyboard to console controls... everyone with a brain knows that M&K is superior...


We're debating console controller vs. motion control, and there is one that is far more accurate and easy to use and everyone with a brain knows which one that is.

Motion controls?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonies /forum/post/18261018


I have no idea why you're comparing mouse and keyboard to console controls... everyone with a brain knows that M&K is superior...

Maybe your post above my last one has something to do with it.


Anyway, as I said I hope that 1:1 motion controls approach a light gun level of precision, which would be awesome. Anyone who has played Time Crisis or Virtua Cop or House of the Dead knows how precise that input style is (even better than a mouse). It's already clear that wands can approach mouse-like control, but to match or even surpass it is something I look forward to checking out.
 
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