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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks,


just a quick note to let you know that I've had the priviledge of testing the Danish-designed and manufactured KiSS DP-450 DVD/VCD/SVCD/XVID/DIVX/MPEG4/MP3 (whew!) DVD-player for some hours now... and the initial results are very promising indeed.


So far I've been unable to test the progressive scan output though, as the designers opted for a Scart-connector (to save costs, I'm sure) and Scart to component leads are quite hard to come by over here. One retailer actually laughed his head off when I asked about such a lead's availability.


But still, what I've seen so far has been quite impressive. This baby plays CBR & VBR MP3s from CD and DVD. You can also stuff as many VCD and SVCD compliant .mpg-files as you can on a DVD-R, burn it as a regular UDF/Joliet DVD-ROM and yup, DP-450 plays those files. Ditto for CD-ROMs and DVD-ROMs filled to capacity with JPEG and TIF files, as well as Kodak Picture CDs.


And as I mentioned earlier, the player also plays those MPEG4-related standards like Xvid and Divx, though only Divx 4.xx and 5.xx are valid; 3.xx is a no-no. DP-450 also plays Sigma's MPEG4-variant.


I saw a full 720x576 resolution Divx 5.02 clip encoded at 3.2 megabits per second, and the interlaced PQ was very, very good.


I'm in the process of trying to locate a suitable connection lead to test the progressive scan output. I'll let you know how it looks if and when.






For a cliffhanger-kind ending (this is a teaser, right?), I leave you with this: I found a secret menu which has some very interesting options in it.


cheers,

.petri.
 

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Petri we have something in common we know how to find the Service Menu, just good hacking on something we own. Thanks for the swell report and I hope you get the right cable. I have 3 progressive players

1 is a 300 changer, the others are for different purposes. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Marc,


the player has only S-video, composite and Scart on the rear panel. Scart is common in Europe and I guess KiSS weren't thinking of any other markets when they designed the player. Oh yeah, it's not multi-voltage; works with 220V only. But it does both PAL and NTSC, though.


It's possible to get component and even VGA out through the Scart, but you would need to make a special cable for it. For some completely unfathomable reason KiSS is reluctant to give me the information required (which pins are they using to output VGA, for example) to make those cables.


In the secret menu there's something so very, very interesting which absolutely requires a component or VGA out... Here's a hint: it begins with the letter "S".


.petri.
 

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Hi guys,


I'm very interested in this DVD Player.

Friend of mine can get some (in Belgium) for about 450 € (+/- 450 $).

SCART is good for me (no, don't hit me please :) ) because I own a Sony 1031Q CRT (European model) witch input is SCART.


Now, does it play progressive scan in both PAL and NTSC ?


Please tell your secrets about the secret menu (how to get there ?).

I bet for region free and macro off. Right ?


Thanx,


Ghost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ghost,


wrong. Kind of. The player ships with an RPC-2 drive, which needs a new firmware to make it RPC-1. After that, there's a region setting in the hidden menu. There's no setting to disable Macrovision, though.


Yes, it does progressive scan in both PAL and NTSC, if you have a suitable cable for the job. I don't, yet.


Still, there's something more in the hidden menu. I'm surprised no one's guessed it yet; I did give a hint... :D
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by pteittinen
Ghost,


wrong. Kind of. The player ships with an RPC-2 drive, which needs a new firmware to make it RPC-1. After that, there's a region setting in the hidden menu. There's no setting to disable Macrovision, though.


Yes, it does progressive scan in both PAL and NTSC, if you have a suitable cable for the job. I don't, yet.


Still, there's something more in the hidden menu. I'm surprised no one's guessed it yet; I did give a hint... :D
Hi petri,


What do you mean by suitable cable for progressive scan ?

Could a simple SCART>SCART cable work ?

I'm not sure that I've understood the all thing : what is the kind of the Prog Scan signal pass thru the SCART ? YUV ? RGBs ? RGBHV ?

I'm confused.


Please, how to get in the secret menu ?

Please2, where to find the firmware to make the DP-450 RPC-1 ?


Thanks,


Ghost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ghost,


my Seleco SVD-500 won't accept progressive scan through Scart, so I need to make a Scart->component cable. With the cable I get YPbPr out from the Scart connector.


Look for the firmware at http://forum.firmware-flash.com/portal.php


.petri.
 

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Petri,

I noticed this progressive over scart oddity when looking at the Kiss 450 a while ago. Their website doesn't give any indication of how to get the progressive signal out of the player. A popular e-tailer in the UK sells the 450 for £245, about 350 euro. It sounds like an interesting player, but a little too strange. If they couldn't be bothered to put a component output on the back, what other things have they saved money on... I would not be surprised is the player can scale since it is has the proccessing ability for DivX,Mpeg4, etc.(I assume it uses the Sigma Designs EM8500 chip.) They question is how good is the quality of the picture based on the rest of the components in the box?


Did Kiss give you the Scart to YPbPr pinout? or is it RGB+sync? or even stranger from a scart connector, RGBHV?


Scart to RGB+sync cables are quite common in the UK, (I imagine they are in mainland europe as well). I have a fantastic one and a cheap one. If Kiss gave you the pinouts, you could get a cheap scart to RGB+sync and resolder the connections in the scart yourself.


Anyway, thanks for having a look at this player.


Cheers, William
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
William,


ah, there's the rub, see. After helping KiSS immensely by sending them daily bugreports, I asked their engineer for the pin order. He promised to get back to me.


A bit later I got an e-mail claiming that they don't give out the pin order to customers. Apparently they'll be selling their own cables in the near future.


I told them - not very politely - to shove their policy, because my projector needs a 20 foot long cable, which I'm sure they won't manufacture. To this, their hardware manager commented that I can always extend their cable with RCA adapters! DUH!


I've now given a professional engineer the task of making me a couple of high quality cables, based on his best guess for the pins. We'll see what happens.


I have some photos of the player's innards but haven't had time to put them online yet. I can tell you that it's one of the emptiest boxes I've ever seen. There's only one rather small PCB which does everything. Judging by the interlaced PQ I'd say they've used very good quality components.


Regardless of the pinorder secrecy, I'd have to commend KiSS for their dedication. Their engineers fixed about 70% of the bugs I listed for them in only a few days and released a new, much improved firmware. I'm hoping they implement some of my suggestions in the next version.


.petri.
 

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Once they sell one of their own special cables, the pinout can be posted. :D


Do you know anything about the DP-500? On the kiss website, the product matrix lists the DP-500 with the same features as the DP-450, plus an ethernet connection.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
William,


actually I do, yes. It's only on sale in Denmark at the moment and was customized for a certain Danish company. At the moment it lacks some of the DP-450's features. DP-500 will officially be released in Q1 2003 with all the intended features.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mariusz,


the "S" stands for scaling. I'll comment more on this once I've been able to test that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Marius,


it's the Sigma 8500.


I finally got some custom-made cables this morning and tested the scaling. I don't know why, but the screen turns to complete nonsense whenever I turn the scaling on. Hmm...
 

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The cable is ok (in progressive mode)?

So maybe it's not implemented or disabled because of copy protection.

Did you tested it with non-CSS DVD, VCD or Divx discs?


Regards
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Marius,


the cable (Scart to component) works fine in progressive scan mode, yes. When I turn the scaling on, the picture 'explodes' into complete gibberish. I didn't have any disc in the player at the moment, so I should've seen the KiSS background picture on the screen.


Reading the EdgeReview site, I found two people who had managed to get the scaling to work, so it's probably implemented. Hard to say though, perhaps they were simply lying, who knows?


edit: Damn, I futzed up. Let's just say that one shouldn't rush when testing these things... When I thought I was viewing progressive scan material, I was in fact seeing only component interlaced material.
 

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...with three projectors: Cine 7, Sim2 HT300 and Sanyo PLV-Z1. I use a standard scart - rgb (bnc) cable and the scaling works only for 720p and 1080i. In the secret menu the player shows 1080p but this is a mistake.

The player is not pal progressive scan: pal signal is converted in 480p @ 60 Hz.

With the RGB I've got a lot of problem.
 
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