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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Currently have an Orb Mod2x system plus an old Klipsch Sub12 (unusual combo I know but is not bad!) + Marantz SR5008. Now I'm looking for a bit more response and punch from a smaller sub as I listen to more music than movies these days. Not interested in max SPL or other subs as I don't play the system loud. Got my sights on the B&W PV1D. Would it be reasonable to run these 2 subs.... How would the PV1D sub blend in with the Klipsch or would it be pointless keeping the Sub12?
 

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A quick Google shows Amazon.com selling the PV1D for ~$1,700. I'd replace the Sub-12 with one or two well-rated PSA XS15se subs ($799, shipped, for one; $1,499, shipped, for two).


If they're too large, the SVS SB-2000 is a more-compact option ($699, shipped, for one; $1,299, shipped, for two).


Both PSA and SVS offer free return shipping (PSA within 30 days; SVS within 45 days), which makes in-home demos risk-free.


For more money ($1,224 + shipping), the servo-controlled Rythmik F15HP is a well-regarded option.
 

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Currently have an Orb Mod2x system plus an old Klipsch Sub12 (unusual combo I know but is not bad!) + Marantz SR5008. Now I'm looking for a bit more response and punch from a smaller sub as I listen to more music than movies these days. Not interested in max SPL or other subs as I don't play the system loud. Got my sights on the B&W PV1D. Would it be reasonable to run these 2 subs.... How would the PV1D sub blend in with the Klipsch or would it be pointless keeping the Sub12?
You may as well chuck the sub12, and say no to the B&W. There are better sounding subs for less money. Period.

Now, going by what you are looking for we still need to know your room size. A sub that may be LOUD in one room may be lost in another, so without that info we can't really give much more information on recommendations. The only unanimous recommendation you will receive presently is not to buy the B&W subwoofer.

What I will also tell you is, smaller subs being more accurate is a myth. Even with music.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm just after a sub that is more punchy than the Klipsch Sub12 for mostly music listening that will blend well with the fronts on my system that Audyssey is crossing over at 200hz. Obviously my current sub doesn't go that high very well. The above chart is for a PV1 not the PV1D which apparently is a lot better. I haven't auditioned one though but was hoping there were some people here that had. I live in an apartment and the area this will go in is open and about 500sf. Being in an apartment I won't be wanting 12+ inch woofers etc and the current Klipsch I only listen to a really low gain and it's plenty; Im not intending to win any bass wars. So I thought the PV1D would be a quality sound without going over the top plus the design is the best looking by FAR I've seen at this price range.
 

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I'm just after a sub that is more punchy than the Klipsch Sub12 for mostly music listening that will blend well with the fronts on my system that Audyssey is crossing over at 200hz. Obviously my current sub doesn't go that high very well. The above chart is for a PV1 not the PV1D which apparently is a lot better. I haven't auditioned one though but was hoping there were some people here that had. I live in an apartment and the area this will go in is open and about 500sf. Being in an apartment I won't be wanting 12+ inch woofers etc and the current Klipsch I only listen to a really low gain and it's plenty; Im not intending to win any bass wars. So I thought the PV1D would be a quality sound without going over the top plus the design is the best looking by FAR I've seen at this price range.
The PV1D isn't really any better. What they did was they eq'ed them to be flat lower, but as anyone will tell you, eq'ing for flat response down low costs you power up high, power this sub didn't have to lose. Twin 8"s in a box that tiny aren't going to work any miracles. They sell based upon looks, period. THD is also way up on it, which is a notable issue.

Yes, it's a pretty unit--but pretty cannot battle the laws of physics. Drivers with practically no air room inside of the box for them to breathe is going to lead to bad performance and a lot of distortion. No amount of pretty will overcome that factor. There has been threads about those subs, and it didn't end well for poor B&W.

Now, what I will tell you is this, You can still get a 12" in an apartment. You'd just turn it down. You're aiming more-so towards music, right?

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F15HP_specs.html

Flat response up to 200hz.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12SE_specs.html

Flat response up to 200hz, smaller size.

One thing to keep in mind, as you lower the gain on a subwoofer, the cone moves less. The less the cone has to move, the lower the distortion levels are, and the larger the cone, the more SPL it can make with the same amount of travel.

As such, even turned down to the levels you're looking to achieve, either of those subwoofers will produce a cleaner sound, and rythmik are widely considered one of the (if not THE) best music subwoofers on the market. They also handle movies effortlessly.

They're also much cheaper than the B&W, and still look beautiful. :D

(please note, if you go this route you have to select the upgraded amp that has XLR inputs as well to be able to defeat the built in cross-over and let the AVR handle it. This is required to do what you are looking to do, and only adds $40 to the price.)
 

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I'm just after a sub that is more punchy than the Klipsch Sub12 for mostly music listening that will blend well with the fronts on my system that Audyssey is crossing over at 200hz.
Whoa! Audyssey is crossing over at 200 Hz? :confused: What speakers are you running? A normal crossover, even for most bookshelf speakers, is 80 Hz.
 

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^ Hee, hee. Gee, why didn't I think to read the first 5 words of that post :eek:. Amazing what can escape me these days...

Still, a 200 Hz crossover is crazy. I would think those 3-inch drivers should be able to hit 100 Hz. Something must have gone wrong on the Audyssey setup.
 

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^ Hee, hee. Gee, why didn't I think to read the first 5 words of that post :eek:. Amazing what can escape me these days...

Still, a 200 Hz crossover is crazy. I would think those 3-inch drivers should be able to hit 100 Hz. Something must have gone wrong on the Audyssey setup.
The little spec on the site indicates they are capable of as low as 80 (-10dB?) but are "optimal" from 110 up (-3db?)....but not much there for specs overall.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the responses - I have learnt something! When I was demoing the Klipsch all those years ago I remember I preferred the 12 inch sound over their 10 inch version so I can totally understand where you guys are coming from.


Regarding the 200hz crossover - yes I thought this strange also from the Audyssey XT. I have run the Audyssey many times with mic stand etc and every single time it detects my front mod2X as 200hz. The surrounds often get detected as 150hz but they are close to a wall and the centre is in a cabinet. This is why the sub12 isn't blending in well I think and the bass sounds a little monotone. The mod2X are surprisingly good for their size though and sound a lot warmer than most satellite speakers Ive heard.
 

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Still better to have speakers with more range. Let the sub work low where it usually will do best and won't be localizable. Curious, without running Audyssey and using manual settings for crossover is it a better blend for your speakers and sub (since it's not advisable to lower the crossover set by Audyssey)?
 

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^ I agree with lovinthehd. Try the manual settings. Your speakers should be capable of being crossed over at 120 Hz, which would help your subwoofer. I might even try 100 Hz or 110 Hz crossover to see how things sound. It's certainly not a bad sub, but 200 Hz is asking it to perform in a range it cannot do very well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've tried manually overriding the Audyssey setting and lowering to 120 and 150hz but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I just don't think the Sub12 can work that well in that range. I've also tried manual eq settings on the Marantz and totally removing Audyssey room correction settings but it the system as a whole does sound much fuller with Audyssey. The Sub12 can hit low enough but im not too concerned, just need to get the punch and tone back in the bass.
 

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I've tried manually overriding the Audyssey setting and lowering to 120 and 150hz but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I just don't think the Sub12 can work that well in that range. I've also tried manual eq settings on the Marantz and totally removing Audyssey room correction settings but it the system as a whole does sound much fuller with Audyssey. The Sub12 can hit low enough but im not too concerned, just need to get the punch and tone back in the bass.
Did you adjust the crossover while still engaging Audyssey for playback? Not sure what you mean by manually overriding (just changing?).

That's somewhat because it's not really subwoofer territory. Some can help there but the better solution is in the speakers. Not a chance? :)
 

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Yeah I just accessed the Audyssey menu on screen to lower the crossover point. Crossover on sub is always set to 120hz.
Not adviseable since the Audyssey calcs won't account for the lowered crossover point and won't apply filters below 200hz. Try doing a manual setup (turn Audyssey off) with lower crossovers and see if that helps. The crossover is that between a speaker and the sub. I still think your speakers just don't have what you're looking for....

The sub "crossover" you're referring to is likely only the LPF of LFE (i.e. affects the .1/LFE channel content only) which most leave set at 120.
 
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