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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking for great smaller speakers and listened to the Krell LAT-2 today. They soud great for music. However the $10,000 price is tough. Any ideas of where to get these new or used for a bunch less $?


Also, anyone have any coments on these...other than price?


Thanks
 

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CCClap,


I have listened extensively to these speakers and I find them lacking in the midrange area.


At $10,000, they are way to pricey. You can get Revel Studios that will blow the doors off for the same price.

www.audiogon.com has used equipment for less money.


Also Toys from the Attic at www.tfta.com has used equipment as well.
 

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Hello ccclap,


I think for $10,000 you can do much better with Sonus Faber or B&W Nautilus 805.


Krell builds excellent amplifier's but they are not that great with Speakers, especially at the $10,000 price point.


I think you should audition a wide variety of speakers to see it their are better speakers for that price or less.


I think the Revel speakers are great.


But for $10,000 my choice would be a used pair of Wilson Watt Puppy 5.1 and their is a used pair for only $6000(US).


Just my 2cents, Brian
 

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If you really love the Krell, you'll be happy to know you can have them... well, the sound at least...keep most of your money in your pocket (or on your credit card -heh)


go to www.av-reality.com


They're located near Scan-Speak (the world class Scandinavian driver company that makes the drivers for the Krell line up, and TONs of other high end companies from Wilson, to Sonus Faber, to Proac, to TAG, etc...), and they use the same drivers as the Krells (actually av-reality got the 6 1/2" Scan-Speak Revelator -in the LAT- first), and are WAAAAAAAY less money with NO sonic compromises!


They don't use 'pretty' curved metal cabinets that Krell uses, but they do use very unique (you'll see..) asymetrical cabinets which have about the smallest baffle bounce possible, and the most limited internal standing waves.


GREAT design! You'll probably be able to afford thier most expencive model if you were even thinking about those Krell.

They're coming out with a new model but their old model the 3D I think uses the exact same drivers as that LAT-2.


If you're looking for other GREAT yet fairly cheap speakers that use the best Scan Speak drivers, look at the www.norh.com and their marble cabinet 9.0 (using a Scan-Speak revelator tweeter, and 5 1/4" Revelator cone) and 7.0 (using a Revelator tweeter and the carbonfiber/paper "8545" 6 1/2" cone).


And (what I own) www.newformresearch.com R630's and R645's. Newform's own amazing ribbon drivers mated to the Scan-Speak "8545" driver (very famous driver as used in the Wilson WATT, and lots more).


Even the VERY BEST drivers and x-over parts aren't more than a few hundred bucks a peice from any of the best of the best companies (Scan-Speak/Vifa, Seas, Focal, Dynaudio, etc..), and a solid excellent designed cabinet doesn't need to cost that much either (MDF is great for cabinets but you can't charge as much as when using metal of furniture grade woods), so you can have world class sound in a speaker for a few grand tops.


Those 'boutique' brands are dinosaurs. Long live the 'value to the masses' internet!


Good luck! You can afford the BEST.


From any of those companies, you'll have enough left over to buy a world class front end to feed them if you could've even come close to affording those Krell's!
 

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azryan-


While the Acoustic-Reality products certainly look intriguing, it should be clearly understood by readers that the components selected for use in a loudspeaker are only one part of a complex system. Actual implementation is what really yields the percieved "character" of each speaker. There are more than a few manufacturer's selling speakers with expensive components for the sake of having expensive components. Just about any driver combination can be made to sound bad, and I guaranty that if you give the same set of drivers to different designers, each will come up with a final design with rather different characteristics and percieved sounds.


There are most certainly some very high performance drive units out in the market, and some have some significant advantages and distinct qualities. How these qualities are put to use will vary product to product.


Regards,
 

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The Krell is well overpriced and can be bested by numerous others at a much lower price point. I heard the bigger Krells side by side with a pair of B&W Signature 800s and for $10k less, the B&Ws were a superior product. You can find numerous monitors in the price range you are looking at. You might want to look into Red Rose, Piega, Revel, B&W, Dynaudio...
 

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I would also add to look at the $4,200 Magneplanar 3.6Rs.


Great speaker.


Or spend more and get the $12,000 Maggie 20.1, a speaker Harry Pearson says is the equal in many ways to the $120,000 Alon Grand Reference.
 

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Lee,


They don't just equal the Alon Grand Ref, they exceed it in terms of Tonal neutrality and absence of definable characteristics.
 

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I have heard incredibly AWESOME things and some kinda bad things about the systems from www.vmpsaudio.com , but I think that few people doubt the price to performance ratios of his high end systems.... For pure sound quality and price to performance ratio, judging by the reviews that I have seen on some forums, they tend to beat a *lot* of other companies in the uber-high end.. It's just that there aren't a lot of people who seem to have the tendency to use quality drivers like Mr. Cheney does--he uses a lot of one-two combinations of unorthodox ribbons combined with woven carbon fiber woofers... unfortunately, the 'quality driver' statement is not one I would apply to 100% of his lineup, so pick and choose carefully...


Of course I have never heard any of these, and I have heard a good amount of people with negative experiences with this, so I don't know. Don't trust me, trust someone with actual experience...and ESPECIALLY trust your own ears!


To find others who know more, read up at these forums:

http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/forums/


Particularly General Discussion, Unverified Reviews, Verified Reviews, Speakers, and VMPS Audio Products forums....
 

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Nothing I hate worse than when someone asks a question that never gets answered and then gets "suggestions" on "better" solutions.


The guy asked where he can buy the LAT's at a good price, not that Bose uses the same drivers, sounds better or is your MOM's favorite speaker.


He wanted comments on the speaker unrelated to price, almost every single post mentions how pricey it is or how overpriced it is.


I have heard them and they sound very good. Can you find something for less, sure. Will it the sound the same, no it won't. It may sound better to you or it may sound worse. If you loved the sound, buy them and try and get the best price you can.


PM me if you want the name of a dealer who discounts, I can help you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you for all of your recommendations.


I do like the sound and look of the Krells. I do not like the price. For better or worse, both sound and looks are important. I need smaller size speakers. I prefer the basic box to wild design. Ascetically the Krells do cut it.


I do appreciate your recommendations, but big towers are not what I am looking for. And yes, it is hard to sort out which recommendations are the most credible/viable…but that’s life.


Is it too much of an audio *******ization to use smaller speakers and add a sub? I do NOT want to get to the $10,000 plus combined price, after accounting for aggressive shopping (new or used). If so what do you recommend?


Thanks


--Caleb
 

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You can get better speakers for considerably less $$.

I listened to the these Krell speakers with Krell monoblocks, Wadia CD player. I then went to Tweeter and the Sonus Faber Concerto ($1895) with moderately priced B&K components was so much more musical. Remember more $$ does not always mean better sound.
 

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eric,


I know what you mean about all the people here posting saying to get this or that totally different speaker than the Krell that was orignally asked about....but I don't think you quite get it.


Caleb said he can't afford (or won't afford) the $10K Krells. He's heard them so he knows what they sound like. Knows he likes them. Knows he'd like to have them but won't.


He seems to be fishing for other options that will get him that 'same sound' result for way less money.


Now people saying 'buy Magnepan' are just goofy since it's so totally unlike what the poster asked about, but it doesn't sound AT ALL like he's willing to consider the Krell even if you could get him something big like 20% off. That's still 8 grand+tax!, and that'd still be insane when there's many great, far cheaper, and very close options.


I recommended bookshelf models (like the LAT-2 is) by great companies that use the same (and similar) drivers from Scan-Speak (that the Krell uses), and while different, still top grade x-overs (like I'm sure the Krell uses).


Will they sound just like the Krells then? No...

but there's a lot of similarities in my recommendations, and they won't sound of inferior quality -just slightly diff. (maybe better in the listener's opinion), and associated gear will change the sound too anyway. They're IMO the closest options to the Krell, and waaaay less money.


Just what Caleb is looking for it seems!


Caleb, I highly recommend bookshelf speakers over towers for many reasons....


Optimal main speaker positioning sets speakers many feet into the room far from the walls for best depth and overall soundstage, and if you're spending thousands on great speakers you ought to be setting them up properly IMO, or else you just have to much money to waste.


The one flaw that optimal set-up is that it totally cuts down the speaker's low bass extention that's reinforced by the walls.


That's fine though, 'cuz you'll still be able to hit below (usually 'far below', but just 'below' is good enough) 80Hz with tons of great 'bookshelf' speakers which will blend seamlessly w/ a great sub that will go lower, flatter and louder than even most ultra costly towers w/ sub sections built in.


Take advantage of the great sub x-overs in preamps out there, and the advantage subs have in being non-directional and reinforced usually by corner loading it (for lower distortion, and better extention), any able to go far lower than most even very costly properly set-up towers (like the outragously expensive LAT-1 for example).


Bookshelf models usually have a smaller baffle bounce (front face reflection) to damage sound compared to towers. That's a minor plus, but a plus none-the-less. More open sound typically (not always 'more' open, but never 'less' than a similar tower version)


Best of all... bookshelf models typically use the same drivers and quality x-overs as the faaar more costly tower models in almost any brand of speaker line. Put the saved money towards a flat, quality sub that'll trounce the tower's bass output anyway.


Getting the lowest end of bass out of the speaker (for example the LAT-2 and all the models I told you about) you'll improve the midrange that the woofer since it won't also be trying (and failing in some cases) to produce big bass waves at the same time.


Bonus- you'll have more headroom from your main speaker amp now that you took the lowest of bass out it it too!


So how is a tower ever better than a bookshelf? Well, in the case of the LAT-1 tower it uses dual 5 1/4" Revelators for the midrange whereas the LAT-2 uses one 6 1/2" Revelator which won't be quite as fast or as low or distortion as the dual smaller drivers of the same design, but then that's not a 'same design' tower version like many companies have.


You can buy a bookshelf model that uses those dual Revelators for way less than either Krell too. Check Madisound too for thier current speakers that use the same (and/or similar) Scan-Speak drivers as the Krell.

Again, they will not sound just like Krell, but they'll be made with the same drivers and every bit as high quality x-overs (which is really the only other thing that will effect the sound difference much between these bookshelf desings). Probably cost you less than 2 grand and will equal that LAT-1 (minus the bass extention). And isn't the LAT-1 about 30 or 40 grand???


My Newform Research are probably called towers by most people -being that they're floorstanding and taller than most people are!, but since the Scan-Speak woofers (which can go down to ~30-35Hz) produce the lower midrange freqs. too, they're far better off in sound quality being x'ed-over into my dual sonotube subs @ 80Hz. where the subs easily fill in those last octaves down to below 20Hz with tight flat bass -except for room effects which everyone has to deal with no matter how flat their speakers start out as.


You might call them BIG bookshelf speakers!


If you want looks in a small bookshelf model that sounds great like the LAT-2 using top Scan-Speak/Vifa drivers, it sounds like you'd be best off looking at the Marble cabinet Norh speakers. Either the 9.0 or 7.0.


You might be able to have them put in the awesome Vifa tweeter that the Krell's use?
 

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I haven't heard the Krell speakers, but at $10,000 a pair, they seem to be about three to four times overpriced based upon what others have said.
 

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Lol, what other speakers use that awesome vifa tweeter?? Anything with a higher price to performance ratio than the Krell's?


What exactly are the specific aesthetics that you need for your room?


Do you think you can post a photo of the decor that the speakers have to match??
 

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This is a little off topic off topic.....



I just read a thread where some guy named gluegun set a bunch of people straight on the sony mdr vxxxdj's over at the hardforum. Was that you? Good job :)


If you are interested in the vifa xt25 take a look at
http://www.speakerworkshop.com/Speak...onitor%20A.htm

I just built me a set with a few improvements. I'm still not done tweaking, but they sound mighty mighty fine. I have a few pictures up here:

http://members12.clubphoto.com/bryan...ner-3059.phtml



I still haven't decided what I am going to finish them in. Maybe a nice curly maple or something :D




-Bryan
 

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Yea, that was me... you should see the dozens of threads at the DJ forums at www.tranceaddict.com .... I had a field day there, and now VERY FEW DJ's there recommend the industry standard, the V700DJ....


:) :)


Do a search, lol...
 

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Wow, you really put a dent in sony's market :) I have always thought the masses need to hear the truth about those phones.




Polk audio's (i know, i know) new lsi line uses the same tweeter, in a much much smaller price range, about 1k a pair for bookshelves. I can't say they are even close to the lat's. I haven't heard either one. The Polks are much more affordable though.


If you like the krells sound that's all that matters. You might try http://shopping.yahoo.com I think I have seen some krell stuff on there before. If you keep you head up I am sure you can find the speakers for less than the msrp. Good Luck


-Bryan
 

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Gluegun,


Why would you be 'laughing out loud'? You ask about a speaker with a higher price to performance ration that the $10,000 Krell bookshelf?


Wow, I could list THOUSANDS of speakers that do that.

Ten Grand's a big rip off.


As to the awesome Vifa tweeter those Krell's use....


It's the Vifa XT25TG30-04 model 'ring radiator'.


You can buy one yourself today at Parts Express.com for $55 (it's on sale), so the two the Krell's LAT-2 use would be ~110 bucks.


Probably ~$200 each for the 6 1/2" Revelator drivers in the LAT-2.

So that's about $500, plus the cost of the x-overs.


The absolute VERY BEST x-over parts you could possibly buy (since I don't know just what the Krell's use) wouldn't add more than another $1,000 (to guess VERY high) to the component's cost.


~$1,500 total component cost.


I'm sure Krell gets it all for cheaper though because they buy in bulk, so maybe $1,000 tops plus the cabinet cost.


The LAT-2's main cost is in the expencive to build metal (solid aluminum I think?) cabinet plus a MASSIVE MASSIVE 'status symbol brand name mark up'.


Aluminum is not any better than the (basically perfect) asymetrical "solid marble" cabinets Norh uses (worse actually, but both are great), and is little more than a 'fashion statment' compared to using a 1" thick HDF cabinet (which would be ~$20 for each speaker to make yourself).


I'll have to look up what speakers use that exact Vifa tweeter. I know AV-Reality (which I've already mentioned) uses the 6 1/2" Revelator cone, and Norh uses the 5 1/4" Revelator in the 9.0, and the 6 1/2" 8545 driver in the 7.0 model, and both use assorted top Scan-Speak tweeters.

Both companies use best of the best x-overs.


All the diff. models being made for slightly diff. end results, which totally come down to opinion as to which is better, but all can easily match the $10K Krell's in sound quality.


AV-Reality is making a new speaker (or it might be out already) that uses the Scan-Speak ring radiator tweeter which is based on the Vifa tweeter, but is far more expensive.


You can get those speakers for way less than the Krell's though!


Who's laughing now?


There's another company that makes a very similar tweeter and AV-Reality says it great also and cheaper. I think it's a Chinese company? Sort of like the Chinese Hi-Vi Research drivers in the Diva speakers. Similar to B&W's line, but tremendously cheaper.
 

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Norh uses that Vifa Tweeter in some of thier Prism cabinet line.

Check the page out to hear their comments on the diff. components they use across their whole line up.


Check out this bookshelf kit. It'll be every bit as good as the Krell LAT-2 for looks like ~85% cheaper.

www.leda.com.sg/eminent.htm


"The Eminent kit is a stand mounted speaker capable of truely awesome performances. It utilizes the most recent state of the art drivers by Vifa and Scanspeak - the Vifa XT25TG30-04 tweeter and the Scanspeak 15W-8530K00 woofer. Its crossover is comprised of high quality components - 16Gauge Jantzen Foil Inductors, Bennic XXP Capacitors and Non-Inductive Resistors."


This is the closest speaker to the Krell's. It uses the 5 1/4" Revelator whereas the Krell uses the 6 1/2" which is exactly the same, but can't move as fast as the 5 1/4", but goes lower with the right size cabinet (which the Krell doesn't have, and it irrelevant if you use a sub to have true full range sound.


Looks-wise they're small and gloss black. Very nice I think since 'fashion' was also one of Caleb's wants.
 
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