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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I just purchased a 141fd locally that was slightly used. The display looks good with no visible damage. However, it seems the black levels are terrible. In a dark room with a black screen it looks like a cheap samsung. Anyone have any ideas on what might be causing this. I can even notice it watching tv. I have a 111fd in my bedroom and it looks 100 times better. Thanks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by X454gtox /forum/post/18224529


So I just purchased a 141fd locally that was slightly used. The display looks good with no visible damage. However, it seems the black levels are terrible. In a dark room with a black screen it looks like a cheap samsung. Anyone have any ideas on what might be causing this. I can even notice it watching tv. I have a 111fd in my bedroom and it looks 100 times better. Thanks.

lol


I are you serious or this is joke on Panasonic black level rise thread?
 

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is the hdmi rbg level set wrong.. aka 0-255 instead of 16-235?


otherwise i dunno


my pro-141 is great, as is my pro-101
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by X454gtox /forum/post/18224529


So I just purchased a 141fd locally that was slightly used. The display looks good with no visible damage. However, it seems the black levels are terrible. In a dark room with a black screen it looks like a cheap samsung. Anyone have any ideas on what might be causing this. I can even notice it watching tv. I have a 111fd in my bedroom and it looks 100 times better. Thanks.

You need a calibration.


lower your bright to 0 and contrast to +28 for low light viewing, and then go from there. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post14507494


ss
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok so I am watching a Bluray on my ps3 right now and it looks pretty good. When you switch to an empty input it lights the room up, my 111 is almost near black. Does the 141 handle no signal different than a 111. My dish vip 222 looks terrible thought with light grey blacks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by X454gtox /forum/post/18224845


Ok so I am watching a Bluray on my ps3 right now and it looks pretty good. When you switch to an empty input it lights the room up, my 111 is almost near black. Does the 141 handle no signal different than a 111. My dish vip 222 looks terrible thought with light grey blacks.

The 141 has several levels of black BEFORE a signal is detected (4 or 5 If I remember). These pre-MLL levels are significantly higher than MLL (my guess is 10 times or more). The MLL is only reached under the following two conditions.


1 - A signal is detected


2 - The pixels have been recieving power for 15 seconds



The reason the panel does this is to generate a long lasting priming effect from startup (or when the pixels have been off for any period of time)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Checked the colorspace and it was set to auto. I changed it to limited rgb and it brought the blacks way down. Thanks Guys! Any idea why the auto setting wasn't working correctly?
 

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My 151 black levels sound similar. Not as dark as my 1150.. How do you change the colorspace on the 151. It only shows 1 and 2. Have it on colorspace 2 right now.
 

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Go to setup, then options, select HDMI input, then select video.


The selections should be auto and color 1 trough 4.


Is RGB limited 16-235?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj slick /forum/post/18231222


My 151 black levels sound similar. Not as dark as my 1150.. How do you change the colorspace on the 151. It only shows 1 and 2. Have it on colorspace 2 right now.

The 151FD does not work like the 141. If you think your 151 has the same black levels as your 1150, your 151 is defective.
 

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I am using Pioneer Elite 151FD Pure Mode Reference Settings (2008 "Plus Green" 151FDs Only. ONLY use these settings after the 150 hour break-in period!!!!!!!!!)
 

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Pioneer sets are initially gray when you switch inputs or turn it on. The inky blacks take several seconds to initialize. It should start grayer and gradually become blacker. If it's staying gray for an extended period of time there is either something wrong with the set or (more likely) something wrong with the viewing environment. It's possible to wash out deep blacks with the wrong lighting environment. Dark does not always correlate to no light. You need to pay close attention to what light sources you have in your room and how they're bouncing off your set. Depending on lighting, I can make my KRP look ink black or light gray due to reflections and this is in a dark environment. One thing that's very important is controlling external light from windows and such with good blinds. If you have light leaking in, it may seem dark but actually you have a significant amount of ambient light leaking in.


The rising black level issue that affects Panasonics does not affect Pioneer plasmas. They use different technology. Panasonic's implementation causes MLL increase over time. Pioneer's does not (or if so, so insignificant as to not be noticable outside of technical measurements).
 

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It's interesting to note that I recently had a Sammy 50B860 set right below the 500M in the living room, and I fed a 0 IRE simultaneously to both late at night when it was dark in the room. You know how the Pio starts out gray at first, and then gradually takes a couple lower steps until it reaches its true MLL? Then after 30 seconds or so it totally blacks out and the panel shuts down, going totally black into standby. Well after a short bit the Pio shut off, but the Samsung was still lit up like a Christmas tree on the 0 IRE signal. I grabbed the remote for the Pio and hit some button to "wake up" the Pio out of its hibernation. Of course when you wake it up it once again cycles through the three levels of deepening blacks until it settles at its lowest level.


When I hit the Pioneer remote to wake it up and get the 0 IRE signal showing again, it looked pretty much exactly like the Samsung below it!


So the Sammy B860 on a 0 IRE glowed at the same level as the 500M on its brightest setting, before it settles to its true level.


If I raised the brightness up 6 or 7 clicks above normal on the Pioneer that was approx. where the Samsung was in black levels.


The Pio had nothing on the Sammy for colors, sharpness, processing however. The Sammy does exhibit line-bleed much more than on the Pioneer, which is so faint that it's about as good as non-existent. The Pioneer is clearly superior at resisting IR as well. The Pio has better aspect ratio controls for zooming/stretching/cropping the picture as well. Other than that they looked remarkably similar on content that did not have large portions of black on the screen.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocuMaker /forum/post/18239752


The Pio had nothing on the Sammy for colors, sharpness, processing however.

My 151 says otherwise. Don't know how you guys are setting up your TV's.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano /forum/post/18250232


My 151 says otherwise. Don't know how you guys are setting up your TV's.

I am with Saprano. If the Pio and the Sammy have the same blacks on program material, you re doing something wrong. Just take a look at the black bars on 2:35:1 material. That should put an end to it. The Sammy are great sets and have excellent color reproduction. But as for blacks, it is still no contest.
 

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Not entirely related, but this topic reminded me of a question I had after recently installing a new Comcast Motorola HD DVR cable box. In the menu for the cable box settings, in the Additional HDMI Settings category, there is a Color Space setting with 2 options to choose from: YCC 4:4:4 or RGB.


Which should I be using with my Kuro?


Thanks in advance for your help.
 

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When I hit the Pioneer remote to wake it up and get the 0 IRE signal showing again, it looked pretty much exactly like the Samsung below it!


So the Sammy B860 on a 0 IRE glowed at the same level as the 500M on its brightest setting, before it settles to its true level.

If I raised the brightness up 6 or 7 clicks above normal on the Pioneer that was approx. where the Samsung was in black levels. (End Quote)



I Have a Pioneer 101 and it plays video at the lowest(darkest) black setting , after turning it on it cycles thru three black levels , each one darker than the prev. , the first cycle is a more gray than black , if the samsung 860 darkest black is the same as the first startup black/gray on the Pioneer.well that would stink


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