[KanosWRX]

So with a baby on the way, my Wife gave the go ahead to finish off our basement so it can be done before the baby arrives in May, on top having to do the baby's room as well lots to do in the next few months!

For my build I am planning on hiring a general contractor to finish off the basement, which includes the HT. The only problem is, they don't have any real HT experience. So I will be trying to come up with the design of everything inside and they will be building it, at least most of it. I am still trying to decide if I should do any of it and that's part of the reason I am here asking questions

I have a bunch of questions, but I will start them in a reply to this first post as to not clutter things. I don't have a huge budget, thinking at the most $50k to do everything in the basement and the HT. Initial quotes came in at around $31k for the basement, nothing special in the HT though besides normal walls, ceilings, normal HVAC and soffit's. So that leaves me about $20k to do the rest and pay for extra sound proofing and electronics/speakers/projector and screen. Is that even feasible?? I hope so. I will probably just do one row of seating to start and stick with a sub $1k projector for a few years until 4K's come down and content is available. Also planning on wiring speakers for 9.1.4, but will only buy speakers for 7.1.4 to cut costs. In the design, I have placed all of the speakers to meet the Dolby Atmos specs for proper angle's to listener.. Only ones I don't have on the design are the ceiling/overhead speakers.

I have attached some CAD drawings I have made to use as a reference, along with some shots of what the basement looks like right now, along with the obligatory blue tape on the wall

Planning on starting construction in a month.. hopefully I can figure all of this out with your help by then, so the GC knows what to do!

UPDATES:
Going Atmos!! http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...uro-va-home-theater-build-4.html#post44524073

 

[KanosWRX]

Reserved for Additional Pictures... Added pics of the finished Theater

 

[KanosWRX]

So onto the initial questions

1. As you might notice I don't have a specific media closet location. But if you look at the design, between the HVAC system and the HT room I have a little room.. do you think I can squeeze a media closet in there? I found this simple rack that is about 20" x 20" (http://www.sanus.com/en_US/products/racks/cfr1620/) figure it could fit in there, but access to it behind the HVAC system is not easy at all, would prefer to have access to it from the play room side or do you think maybe have a door to it from the HT side? Or another option would be to put it behind the false wall, if you think that would be better?

2. Its not drawn in the plans, but my HVAC has a supply running down the right wall (if you were looking at the screen, the wall to the right). I was thinking I could run some flex duct work and have two supplies at the front of the screen. Then in the back of the room run a return in the sofffit in the back. Due to all the duct work run around that corner in the back right though, might cut into some of the media closet at the top if I do put it back there.. but I should still have plenty of space. Maybe I can do a skype call one day like you suggested and show you how that duct work looks now.

3. The walls around the room.. So as you can see I have thick concrete foundation walls that go around 3/4's of the HT, they are 9' tall, the joists sit at 8'9" from the floor. What do you think I should do for the interior walls?

3a. For the back wall I will probably need the most sound isolation, thinking a staggered wall with insulation and 2 layers of drywall with GG in the middle on the wall facing the HT. Would you think that is enough? Also on the wall facing the play room does that need to be 2 layer's dry wall and GG as well or just one regular piece of dry wall? Do you recommend staggered walls or decoupled walls with clips instead? From what I have read they are pretty much the same.. just that staggered walls I think my GC can do easier. But if I finish off the home theater myself I could always put up clips and rails.

3b. For the other three sides, that have a concrete wall on them. What would you recommend I do here? A simple frame with double drywall and GG? Staggered/Clips? I figured these wall's are like a wall within a wall so doing staggered/decoupled won't really do anything.

3c. For the ceiling I have my Kitchen right above the HT. Originally I thought of just doing clips and rails then hang double drywall with GG from that. But as I read more, putting double dry wall and GG attached right to the flooring might be a good idea too. The floor is just your typical base wood subfloor with a hard wood on top of that. How far do you think I need to go with the sound isolation here?

4. For the riser, I have read posts on the bass trap where you use 2x12 around the frame and 2x10's for the joists to put the flooring on. then put vents along the perimeter, making sure it doesn't touch the walls. Is this something recommended for my design?

5. Last question, what would everyone recommend on doing regarding the Contractor... Should I have them just frame everything and do basic electrical wiring/hvac type things, then I myself can run the speaker wires/video wires, then put up the insulation/clips/drywall? Just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation and what they ended up going with?

Thanks and if you have anything else you recommend I consider/do please let me know! I'll try to keep this thread well up to date with pictures as well!

 

[KanosWRX]

Anyone have any thoughts on the best place to put the media closet? Should I put it behind the false wall, or try to fit it in the area between the unfinished room and the Home Theater? Or I could shrink the false wall to about 1' off the back wall which would still give enough room for a Sub, move the back HT room wall so its flush with the foundation wall in the unfinished room and then just make a square closet in the corner of the play room that would be the media closet. I feel like I might be wasting some space in the current design where the false wall is.. no speakers really need almost 3' behind them.

So I worked up a new design, I have a 2' door opening up into the HT, that way you can access everything easily from inside. What I would like to do is get a solid wood door 24" wide, then put a layer of GG and Drywall on it to make it match and flush with the wall when its closed.

 

[KanosWRX]

Just a quick update, I have had a few contractors come out and give some quotes on my basement and Home Theater build, some a little more home theater savvy, some a lot less. I also talked with Ted from the Sound Proofing Company.

I plan on basically building a room within a room. I will be doing a double studded wall between the play room and the home theater. I will then build out the other three walls with just normal 3.5" studs 4" off the concrete foundation walls. The walls will all be decoupled from the ceiling using IB-3 Clips. In addition to that the walls will have double 5/8" drywall and Green Glue, with Acoustic caulk filling the gaps between the drywall and R13 fiberglass insulation on all the walls. Drywall will be hung vertically for the first layer then horizontally to eliminate gaps.

For the ceiling Ted recommended just the IB1 clips to hang the channels. I do plan to have speakers hung from the ceiling in the future so I am thinking of maybe upgrading to IB-2 or RISC-1 (not sure what the difference is between those two). I will caulk all the holes in my floor above to prevent sound from escaping as well. I will also install R-19 insulation with double drywall and green glue.

For the HVAC right now I plan on having two supplies up front and a return in the rear, I still have to figure out how to do the mufflers and make sure my builder can make them. At the very east I will be using something like this for the duct work with at least one 90 degree bend, http://www.flexmasterusa.com/Products/FlexibleDuct/FabricDuctInsulated.aspx

The HVAC and Lighting will all run through the soffits or joists above, minimizing any holes in the actual room.

Lastly, my big concern of the Media Closet. As of now I think the easiest/best option is to build it into the wall in the back corner of the room and have them build a thick sound insulated door over it that would match flush to the walls when closed. Then in the rear I can have it open to my unfinished basement area for easier access to the rear of everything. I know this might hurt some of the sound insulation but I don't know what else to do here.

I also attached the latest drawing I have for reference.

 

[ArmyMan]

Kanos,
Sorry you are not getting much action on your page/build.
Good diagrams to start. I think the HVAC area is pretty small for the equipment. It would be hard to get at any connections back there. Once set up it might be ok, but….. If you go that way consider a pullout type rack.
There are lots of ideas in the 'show me your rack' thread, including hidden racks, open racks, racks with smoked glass, and on and on.

I am boxing a supply run down the length of my theater. Opposite that I building a soffitt for the return. But I am relocating my supplies using flex duct into the return soffit and also using flex for part of the return before it opens into the end of the soffit. If that makes any sense.

For concrete walls I built one wall, decoupled, in front of them. the others get double wall, dd/GG.

Don't know if any of that helps.

Does your title mean you are in Virginia?

 

[KanosWRX]

Yep in VA. ArmyMAN are you building a box in your soffit for the projector? Or just mounting to the ceiling?

For my media closet I want to leave the rear open to the unfinished area, so it would be near the furnace. So on the front door, into the home theater, I want to have a layer of osb and drywall with GG to insulate the sound still. Worried abound sound leakage and accessibility.

 

[Ben Broschat]

It looks like you are on track with soundproofing.

2. Its not drawn in the plans, but my HVAC has a supply running down the right wall (if you were looking at the screen, the wall to the right). I was thinking I could run some flex duct work and have two supplies at the front of the screen. Then in the back of the room run a return in the sofffit in the back. Due to all the duct work run around that corner in the back right though, might cut into some of the media closet at the top if I do put it back there.. but I should still have plenty of space. Maybe I can do a skype call one day like you suggested and show you how that duct work looks now.

I think for your room size, dual ducts in the front would probably be acceptable. I would prefer to have your return nearer the floor in the back of the room though. You could run pretty easily run it down a stud bay. Of course, those vent holes are prime sources for sound leaks; make sure you sound proof behind/around them.

5. Last question, what would everyone recommend on doing regarding the Contractor... Should I have them just frame everything and do basic electrical wiring/hvac type things, then I myself can run the speaker wires/video wires, then put up the insulation/clips/drywall? Just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation and what they ended up going with?

That will leave the bulk of the work to you. If you are comfortable tackling it and think that you'll have the time, go for it. Personally, it would take me less time to frame up a basement, run all of the rough electrical and drop a few ducts than it would be to install the drywall (using clips, double 5/8, GG, caulking). You still have quite a bit to do after the drywall is hung. I know the drywall part isn't something to leave with drywall installers who don't have experience with soundproofing techniques. If you can be there for that process, installing it with a crew will save you a lot of time.

What are you planning for finishes? I see some columns in your diagrams. If you are planning a more intricate design with plenty of trim, that can take a lot of time to complete (especially for the inexperienced).

 

[KanosWRX]

It looks like you are on track with soundproofing.

I think for your room size, dual ducts in the front would probably be acceptable. I would prefer to have your return nearer the floor in the back of the room though. You could run pretty easily run it down a stud bay. Of course, those vent holes are prime sources for sound leaks; make sure you sound proof behind/around them.

I would think you want a return at the top to suck out the hot air?

That will leave the bulk of the work to you. If you are comfortable tackling it and think that you'll have the time, go for it. Personally, it would take me less time to frame up a basement, run all of the rough electrical and drop a few ducts than it would be to install the drywall (using clips, double 5/8, GG, caulking). You still have quite a bit to do after the drywall is hung. I know the drywall part isn't something to leave with drywall installers who don't have experience with soundproofing techniques. If you can be there for that process, installing it with a crew will save you a lot of time.

What are you planning for finishes? I see some columns in your diagrams. If you are planning a more intricate design with plenty of trim, that can take a lot of time to complete (especially for the inexperienced).

I do hope to be home most of the time they are doing the install, although i'll be working remotely for my job.. But at least I can go down there and "supervise" every 30 minutes or something. I'll make sure they understand exactly how I want it constructed before they start that day though, i.e. staggered drywall placement from first and second layer, caulking, that type of stuff...

 

[RedStripe88]

Just a quick update, I have had a few contractors come out and give some quotes on my basement and Home Theater build, some a little more home theater savvy, some a lot less. I also talked with Ted from the Sound Proofing Company.

I plan on basically building a room within a room. I will be doing a double studded wall between the play room and the home theater. I will then build out the other three walls with just normal 3.5" studs 4" off the concrete foundation walls. The walls will all be decoupled from the ceiling using IB-3 Clips. In addition to that the walls will have double 5/8" drywall and Green Glue, with Acoustic caulk filling the gaps between the drywall and R13 fiberglass insulation on all the walls. Drywall will be hung vertically for the first layer then horizontally to eliminate gaps.

For the ceiling Ted recommended just the IB1 clips to hang the channels. I do plan to have speakers hung from the ceiling in the future so I am thinking of maybe upgrading to IB-2 or RISC-1 (not sure what the difference is between those two). I will caulk all the holes in my floor above to prevent sound from escaping as well. I will also install R-19 insulation with double drywall and green glue.

For the HVAC right now I plan on having two supplies up front and a return in the rear, I still have to figure out how to do the mufflers and make sure my builder can make them. At the very east I will be using something like this for the duct work with at least one 90 degree bend, http://www.flexmasterusa.com/Products/FlexibleDuct/FabricDuctInsulated.aspx

The HVAC and Lighting will all run through the soffits or joists above, minimizing any holes in the actual room.

Lastly, my big concern of the Media Closet. As of now I think the easiest/best option is to build it into the wall in the back corner of the room and have them build a thick sound insulated door over it that would match flush to the walls when closed. Then in the rear I can have it open to my unfinished basement area for easier access to the rear of everything. I know this might hurt some of the sound insulation but I don't know what else to do here.

I also attached the latest drawing I have for reference.

Welcome and congrats on the baby on the way. You'll be quite busy between now and May and even busier after May.

My 2 cents:
The rack: better to keep the rack outside the room rather than in. That reduces the a major source of heat that you would have to remove from your sound isolated room. Also, I would avoid cutting a large hole in the theater to access the front of the rack. One door to soundproof is more than enough. Instead, consider placing the rack in that spot between the theater and the HVAC. Cut an opening in that wall facing the playroom. Then you can access the equipment from the playroom side and access the back of the rack from the equipment room side when needed. If that HVAC area is really tight, consider a rack that you can pull out into the playroom area.

Soundproofing plan: you've spoken to the expert. One thing to consider is whether you make the first layer OSB instead of drywall. I found that incredibly useful. I did not have to hunt for channels (in your case studs or channels) to fasten woodwork or columns or anything else. At minimum, you should have plywood, OSB or wood in the areas where you plan to mount the projector. Don't forget to tell your drywall guys to leave gaps (I think 1/4") between the walls and ceiling/floor/adjacent walls. Those gaps should be filled with acoustic caulk per Ted's Soundproofing Instruction Manuals.

DIY or DIFM: I did most my build but there was no way I was going to spend time hanging OSB and drywall. What took 3 guys less than two days would have taken me weeks. And, the result would not have been anywhere near as professional. I had to do the mud/tape because I couldn't find anyone to do the room. Others guys on AVS have been more skilled and/or willing to take the time to DIY drywall and mud/tape. In contrast, I found pulling speaker wires and romex pretty easy. Given your relatively short window, you have to decide where to spend your time versus paying the pros to get it done quickly.

BTW, if the contractor is doing drywall everywhere else in the basement, may make sense to have him do the theater too as long as you or someone is there so supervise the walls with channel.

HVAC: Talk to Ted about whether he recommends a dead vent or a powered return if you haven't already. Or, are you connecting the return to your HVAC system. In all cases, Ted can provide manuals on how to minimize sound leakage for your HVAC. In terms of planning, your HVAC plan is one of the things you should figure out before framing begins.

Good luck!

 

[Ben Broschat]

I would think you want a return at the top to suck out the hot air?

I guess the optimal layout depends on what fraction of the year you'll be running AC vs Heat. I'm in ND, so it is solidly heating dominated. In your home, how often will you be running heat vs AC?

 

[KanosWRX]

Yeah, I could have the rack on the outside with a door opening to the play room. I do plan on playing some games down there so I thought from a convince perspective its easier to access from the inside.. but then again most games are on the hard drive now and I don't swap disks much anyways and all remotes are RF now. Plus I usually rip movies to my NAS and use Kodi, so don't have to swap blu-ray disks. So thanks I really might consider that now

As for the OSB/Drywall, I will make sure they at least use OSB if I mount the projector on the ceiling (vs in a box in the soffit). Its something I have thought about having done all around in general.. just not sure if I would really utilize it. The speakers will all be mounted inwall to studs using the brackets. lighting will all be in the soffits as well. Only thing that I would put on the wall really is the acoustic panels, but then could hang on drywall I would think?

As for the HVAC, I do run my fan's at least 30 minutes every hour. So circulation in the room even if the AC/Heat isn't on should be pretty good. Don't mind running it more if need be. I live in VA so weather wise it's cold in the winter and hot in the summer, heat is usually on about 5-8 hours normally in the winter, and AC is on about 8-10 hours on the hottest days in the summer. But the basement has always been really nice temperature wise when I do go down there. I'll have to read up some more on HVAC designs and make sure my builder would know how to do what I want. Think its something a contractor would be able to do pretty easily given some pictures and instructions?

 

[blazar]

Several ideas for the rack:

1. Do surround amps in class D to reduce the total heat generated. This will generally eliminate the need for specialized cooling fans and exhaust and will greatly limit dust issues as well.

2. Set you rack to have access for the gear AND access to the back of the rack at the same time. Generally that means arranging the rack parallel to the media room wall. Run the wiring into the wall with full access to all cables without the need for stupid pull out racks and other expensive nonsense.

3. Get the tallest rack you can, ceiling to floor if possible. This gives you plenty of options for stuff.

4. Worry about cosmetics less and focus on function while staying in budget.

5. Spend the most money on any built-in permanent speakers possible. These are much harder to change later. High efficiency speakers will give great dynamic range and low energy consumption which will bring down the cost of surround amps.

 

[KanosWRX]

Several ideas for the rack:

1. Do surround amps in class D to reduce the total heat generated. This will generally eliminate the need for specialized cooling fans and exhaust and will greatly limit dust issues as well.

2. Set you rack to have access for the gear AND access to the back of the rack at the same time. Generally that means arranging the rack parallel to the media room wall. Run the wiring into the wall with full access to all cables without the need for stupid pull out racks and other expensive nonsense.

3. Get the tallest rack you can, ceiling to floor if possible. This gives you plenty of options for stuff.

4. Worry about cosmetics less and focus on function while staying in budget.

5. Spend the most money on any built-in permanent speakers possible. These are much harder to change later. High efficiency speakers will give great dynamic range and low energy consumption which will bring down the cost of surround amps.

What is class D for the surround amps? Although I don't plan on buying any Amps right away (Looking at the Emotiva ones), or an AVR for that matter until DTS-X comes out, I will have a couple year old Pioneer 7.1 AVR to power my speakers for now.

As for the rack, the two options are have the front door open to the HT or the Play room. If I have it open to the HT then I'll have very easy access to the back of it from the unfinished room. If I have it open to the play room, then based on the rack dimensions which state its 24" deep, then I would have roughly 6-8" behind the rack that I could reach behind to do cabling. Not a whole lot of room, but might be enough. I can always slide things around a little bit if need be.

As for the racks, this place is local so I was thinking either this one which is 42U, http://www.htdepot.com/AV-Cabinet-42U-p/95042.htm or a smaller 27U http://www.htdepot.com/Audio-Video-Cabinet-Server-Rack-27U-p/95027.htm I am thinking the bigger 42U is only 100 dollars more, probably worth it although even by my estimations I would only need about 24U worth of space for 4 AMPS, AVR, UPS, CPU, PS4, XBOX.

As for speakers, I was debating going with In-Wall Triad Bronze/4 LCR's or In-Wall Triad Silver/4/6 LCR's for the Front's, Sides, and Surrounds. I do plan on wiring 4 speakers cables to appropriate positions in the ceiling to support Dolby Atmos and hopefully DTS-X, as well as wiring speaker cables to my front two columns to support a 9.x.x system in the future, but right now don't have the money to buy more speakers. But as long as its pre-wired, it won't be hard to install some in-wall or in-ceiling speakers. I am leaning towards the Triad Silvers though, they are a bit more, especially considering I am getting 7 LCR's for all around. But Speakers are one thing you really never upgrade unless you are really going for reference quality and come into a ton of money My dad has speakers from 25 years ago, I have some speakers that are 7-8 years old myself. So I figure, spend a little more on the speakers like you said.

 

[KanosWRX]

Added some dimensions to my drawing showing the size of the space where the media rack can go. Can easily fit a rack in it with a few inches to spare all around. The side will be open to the unfinished area for access to the rear of the components. Could even leave it on rollers so I can twist it a little if I need more access to the back.

 

[jimim]

What is class D for the surround amps? Although I don't plan on buying any Amps right away (Looking at the Emotiva ones), or an AVR for that matter until DTS-X comes out, I will have a couple year old Pioneer 7.1 AVR to power my speakers for now.

As for the rack, the two options are have the front door open to the HT or the Play room. If I have it open to the HT then I'll have very easy access to the back of it from the unfinished room. If I have it open to the play room, then based on the rack dimensions which state its 24" deep, then I would have roughly 6-8" behind the rack that I could reach behind to do cabling. Not a whole lot of room, but might be enough. I can always slide things around a little bit if need be.

As for the racks, this place is local so I was thinking either this one which is 42U, http://www.htdepot.com/AV-Cabinet-42U-p/95042.htm or a smaller 27U http://www.htdepot.com/Audio-Video-Cabinet-Server-Rack-27U-p/95027.htm I am thinking the bigger 42U is only 100 dollars more, probably worth it although even by my estimations I would only need about 24U worth of space for 4 AMPS, AVR, UPS, CPU, PS4, XBOX.

As for speakers, I was debating going with In-Wall Triad Bronze/4 LCR's or In-Wall Triad Silver/4/6 LCR's for the Front's, Sides, and Surrounds. I do plan on wiring 4 speakers cables to appropriate positions in the ceiling to support Dolby Atmos and hopefully DTS-X, as well as wiring speaker cables to my front two columns to support a 9.x.x system in the future, but right now don't have the money to buy more speakers. But as long as its pre-wired, it won't be hard to install some in-wall or in-ceiling speakers. I am leaning towards the Triad Silvers though, they are a bit more, especially considering I am getting 7 LCR's for all around. But Speakers are one thing you really never upgrade unless you are really going for reference quality and come into a ton of money My dad has speakers from 25 years ago, I have some speakers that are 7-8 years old myself. So I figure, spend a little more on the speakers like you said.

The silvers great speakers. I just did silver lcr's all around along with 4 bronze incieling lcr for atmos and 2 silver subs and 2 bronze balancing subs. My room is 12x22x8

 

[KanosWRX]

The silvers great speakers. I just did silver lcr's all around along with 4 bronze incieling lcr for atmos and 2 silver subs and 2 bronze balancing subs. My room is 12x22x8

Awesome What do you have for your receiver/amps to power all of those? I plan on getting some of their subs eventually.. just out of funds I'll have to use my old Polk PSW10 sub for now.. not great at all but better then nothing and it will at least give me 7.1. The in-wall's are the important ones right now for me seeing as how I will be mounting them with the brackets during construction. I'll have 18" behind my false wall, so I can either put a floor standing sub there, or use one of their in-wall subs eventually. I might also have the builder run a speaker cable through my back wall on the right side so I can put a sub next to the riser one day, then ill have one in front and one in back.

 

[jimim]

Awesome What do you have for your receiver/amps to power all of those? I plan on getting some of their subs eventually.. just out of funds I'll have to use my old Polk PSW10 sub for now.. not great at all but better then nothing and it will at least give me 7.1. The in-wall's are the important ones right now for me seeing as how I will be mounting them with the brackets during construction. I'll have 18" behind my false wall, so I can either put a floor standing sub there, or use one of their in-wall subs eventually. I might also have the builder run a speaker cable through my back wall on the right side so I can put a sub next to the riser one day, then ill have one in front and one in back.

triad amps for subs. ada for rest. pre/pro didnt decide yet. im playing with the triads on a newer marantz for now.

jim

 

[ArmyMan]

I am running soffits down each side, but not the back.
My projector will be exposed. I am putting up plywood onto the channel attached to the joists as a way to attach the projector.
I am using RISC clips.
Return near the ceiling is more accepted.
My room is room within a room style but not yet drywalled.
If you are near NoVa, send me a pm if you want to come see it under construction.

 

[KanosWRX]

I had a question regarding the HVAC in my room, I though it would be best to have two supplies and a return in there. I have one bigger rectangular duct running from the main unit which then supplies 4 registers up stairs and one into the area of the basement where the home theater would go, so 5 total off that one duct. I plan to take the hole that supplies that area of the basement and add some flex duct and run that through the joists to the middle of the HT room. But would it be better to just run one supply duct from the main duct that connects to the furnace, or would it be better to add an extra hole in that and get two supplies, I assume all the others will get a little less air then?

Also since I will have a false wall that I plan on covering with acoustic fabric panels around the screen, not drywall, would it be better to have the supply's come out behind the false wall? or would the acoustic fabric keep too much air behind it and it would be better to have the supplies supply air directly to the main room.

Thanks!