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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
O.K. I think I'm glad I bought a Mits 55905, too, but I'd like to translate this issue into plain ol' terms of plug compatibility.


If I'm understanding correctly, the VGA connection to the Mits, which looks a lot like a computer interface, is the fire wire of which the article speaks. To make it work with the RCA DTC-100 - destined to be the DC-10 of HDTV receivers - I had to go to Radio Shack and get a plug with one end VGA compatible (like a computer monitor) plug and the other, the five RCA component connectors that feed out the HDTV signal. Again, if I'm understanding correctly, what the article is saying is that the DTC-100 won't be effective because of the absence of a digital output. Nor will any HDTV monitor that accepts only component inputs. But Mits owners, and those others that have a VGA type- input - if indeed it is that - will be o.k. My distant recollection when I was informing myself is that that connection is an IEEE whatever. That meant nothing whatever to me at the time.


What is puzzling is that I took on the `Net at The MITs HD500, the satellite receiver rear panel. That unit LACKS a `firewire' plug output. I am surprised the Mits people would not have included the same on their own machine if only to make the set-up more intuitively simple for the buyer.


All this is problematic for me personally, as I will almost certainly upgrade the unit in about eighteen months. But I find this issue easier to understand in terms of plug compatibility than engineering jargon The bottom line - if I've got this right - is that you'll need a vga type computer monitor interface on both receiver and monitor to receive the new signal. If all you've got is component outputs andin puts, you're screwed - really screwed, if the monitor is so limited, only semi-screwed if it's the STB, as these are considerably less expensive.


Please correct me if I'm wrong.


[This message has been edited by fdbjr (edited 07-26-2001).]
 

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If one has a DTC100 that receives HDTV and outputs it in analog (the VGA connector), and that is connected to an HDTV monitor with an analog input- it seems that it would still work.... UNLESS the DTC100 won't be able to unscramble a DTCP signal, or the DTC100 can be programmed from the satellite to block output of any DTCP or 5C encoded signal. And, although it isn't clear, unless the gang of five studios that wants to force 5C encryption of OTA signals prevails, an existing STB and Monitor with analog inputs should be unaffected by DTCP or 5C for OTA.


[This message has been edited by PJH (edited 07-26-2001).]
 

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Quote:
it seems that it would still work.... UNLESS the DTC100 won't be able to unscramble a DTCP signal, or the DTC100 can be programmed from the satellite to block output of any DTCP or 5C encoded signal.
From what I have read, this is a very real possibility. The DTC100 packaging has a warning printed on it saying (something like) not all HDTV encoded programs may be viewed using it. Or alternatively the DTC100 may be programmed to only allow reduced resolution viewing of a DTCP signal.


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Rich Peterson

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Here is another one for you. My Proscan PS38000 has the DTC 100 built in to the set. There are no outputs what so ever.


Since that is the case, and I do not have a STB but an integrated one, then why would they be worried about me copying any of their broadcast? Why do I need a digital connection if the signal goes directly from the receiver to the television. No wires or connections are needed? I cannot tape or record anything with my current set up.


Just curious.


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Proscan PS38000, Denon AVR 2800, JBL S312, JBL S-Center, JBL S38, Velodyne 1250, PS2, SONY 200 Disc DVD Changer. All the above makes me very happy! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Peterson:
From what I have read, this is a very real possibility. The DTC100 packaging has a warning printed on it saying (something like) not all HDTV encoded programs may be viewed using it. Or alternatively the DTC100 may be programmed to only allow reduced resolution viewing of a DTCP signal.

Hold the phone, then, because that most certainly does NOT imply wholesale obsolescence of monitors. In fact, it would seem directly analogous to the way in which premium cable channels are sold. Users who are interested in a whole category of copyrighted signal that comes scrambled obtain appropriate de-scrambling devices, or maybe even a software fix. If so, i have questions about its significance.


FWIW, my own view is that the future of HDTV programming lies in real time events - sports and news. I can't imagine anyone who would make this sort of investment to watch the Young and Restless in this format. the same applies to most network television. And film quality is not that much superior to DVD, particularly with the spectacular new low priced units like the Panasonic RP-91.


One man's opinion.
 

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i wrote the following to the author of the article:



Jon,


the gist of your article is fairly accurate, but you made one misleading point:


"To understand what's going on here, start with the fact that unprotected digital transmissions can be duplicated easily and endlessly with no loss of quality."


CONCEPTUALLY, the above is a correct statement, HOWEVER, you NEGLECTED to mention that there is NOT A SINGLE product available on the market that can record these premium HDTV (satellite or cable HD) signals.


i would VERY be happy if you can contradict me on this!


PS: Panasonic had (for a limited time) a HD recording solution (that worked with a clumsy 3 additional echostar pieces of equipment) - but the MPAA had it pulled from the market place quite some time ago. There is nothing on the horizon to replace this product either.



regards


[This message has been edited by bossmonkey (edited 07-26-2001).]
 

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My question is what does this mean as far as CRTs, DLPs and LCDs are concerned?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Hank527:
My question is what does this mean as far as CRTs, DLPs and LCDs are concerned?
potentially obsoleted with regards to 720p and 1080i analog input. I hope you don't own a nice expensive projector too.


Regards,


Brian
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by fdbjr:
If I'm understanding correctly, the VGA connection to the Mits, which looks a lot like a computer interface, is the fire wire of which the article speaks...
OK, I'll correct you. FireWire (IEEE 1394) is not a VGA connection. FW enabled/equipped consumer devices utilize a much smaller plug that facilitates transmittance of digital rather than analog information. Take a look at the current crop of DV and Digital8 camcorders as well as any contemporary Mac or Sony Vaio computer and you'll see a single FW port that handles video and audio in both directions.


The DTC does not have any such port. No do any of the Mits HD ready displays, to my knowledge. Video on both these devices is strictly analog VGA. The DTC output can be converted to component via a TransCoder where it is still an analog signal, of course. What Mits comes up with for their "obsolescence proof" upgrade is anyone's guess at the moment. It had better include FW and that would likely mean significant changes to the innards of the display itself.



[This message has been edited by Curtis (edited 07-26-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks. And why, pray tell, is a digital conversion of the HDCP signal to an analog HDTV mode impossible ? In't that essentially what the STB's are doing now (digital to analog)?

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by fdbjr:
Thanks. And why, pray tell, is a digital conversion of the HDCP signal to an analog HDTV mode impossible ? In't that essentially what the STB's are doing now (digital to analog)?

It is not impossible, 1080i and 720p via component are just not specified as permitted in the current DTLA license agreement. Ergo the rub, no component = obsoleted display equipment.


Regards,


Brian


 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for these clarifications. I thought there mightbe a mild `sky is falling' aspect to some of the evluationsof this. From the standpoint of business and revenue, any content holder (such as Disney) that goes tothe trouble of producing content in this format (a significant investment) will of necessity want to penetrate the small, but growing, installed base of HDTV users, the vast majority of which (for price reasons) have HDTV-ready monitors and STB's. There are also the hugely muscled consumer electronic manufacturers to deal with. I will thus be very, VERY surprised at the industry wide adoption of any protocol that obsoletes that stuff. Conventional DVD had enough momentum to destroy a competitive format (DIVX) without nearly the installed base or commercial commitment that presently exists in HDTV.


Translation: if this is a matter of licensing `permissions'. the permissions will be negotiated, sooner or later. OR the new format will fail, catastrophically.
 

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Ok I'm kind of consfused now. I bought a Sony 65"

KP-65XBR10W RPTV HDTV ready television. I didn't buy a decoder yet. Is this TV DTCP compatible or just the receiver I buy in the future for it? Will my TV have the connection for it?


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HTnut, go ahead and return your 65H80 and tell them the reason you are returning it because of this news article.

Let 10000 people do the same and the manufacturers will

get the message
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by fdbjr:
Thanks for these clarifications. I thought there mightbe a mild sky is falling' aspect to some of the evluationsof this. From the standpoint of business and revenue, any content holder (such as Disney) that goes tothe trouble of producing content in this format (a significant investment) will of necessity want to penetrate the small, but growing, installed base of HDTV users, the vast majority of which (for price reasons) have HDTV-ready monitors and STB's. There are also the hugely muscled consumer electronic manufacturers to deal with. I will thus be very, VERY surprised at the industry wide adoption of any protocol that obsoletes that stuff. Conventional DVD had enough momentum to destroy a competitive format (DIVX) without nearly the installed base or commercial commitment that presently exists in HDTV.


Translation: if this is a matter of licensing permissions'. the permissions will be negotiated, sooner or later. OR the new format will fail, catastrophically.
DIVX had a competing format, there isn't one here. Also you have to deal with DMCA..if all studios agree to DVI/HDCP or 5c it would mean anything that bypasses it would be illegal. There isn't going to be a competing format. MPAA really thought this through..think about the only way you can view encrypted signal with this scheme is with the device being part of the TV, if it isn't the output won't be encrypted and MPAA can use DMCA to forced this scheme. Makes one wonder if MPAA didn't have this planned out when they lobby for DMCA


Jim
 

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Look, this is prime time for a big time lawsuit against ALL the studios and ALL the HDTV makers. There are thousands of HDTV sets out there that will become useless, my soon to be purchased Panasonic or Hitachi included. We stand up and fight back. Get the best lawyers, Class action their asses and delay this firewire crap for years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'll wait to see it. Studios produce material to be seen, and p;rofit thereby - not to keep from being seen, else no expenditure in the first place. I doubt very much they are going to start all over with an installed base of zero. Comapnies suchas Mitsubishi, Hitachi, and so forth already have huge investments inplant, production, and so on - literally hundreds of millions. I don't know where all this all leads, but mass obsolescence makes no sense at all.
 

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Legal action will not occur just by getting pissed on AVS forum. Lawyers cost money. One needs organization, a website to collect and distribute information, research.


There is an organization (The electronic frontier foundation, or EFF) that is preparing to try its case again the Digital Millenium Copyright Act in Federal Court. Maybe that will work, buts a LONG shot. This is based on your RIGHT to copy.


Another way is to bring action against manufacturers who sold you equipment they knew would be obsolete.


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Alex


[This message has been edited by work permit (edited 07-26-2001).]
 
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