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If you're asking if there are 220v version of the amps, then yes. I have on a 30a 220v circuit.
Not exactly...I know there's a 220V version but is there a reason to run in on a 220v 30A circuit if a 220V 20A circuit is available? IOW, is 220V 20A enough to not trip the breaker. One of the plug options that a friend had to choose from when ordering was a NEMA 6-20 which is a 220V 20A plug but he cut it off and put the 30A plug on and paid an electrician to run a 30A circuit.

I'd say yes.
Thanks. Why? More mature product?
 

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This thread is huge so forgive me if this has been asked 100 times already but will these work on a 20A 230V breaker?

Looking at the current draw it should but I have seen people talking about 30A wiring. I already have 20A 220V outlets installed.

Is the 20000q still preferred over the 22000q?
This is max output of a FP14k (on a 230V 16C breaker)

If you can't see it on the video: maximum short term I saw was 38A, long term is 22A, which will destroy the amp if you overdo it (like I did)
 

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Not exactly...I know there's a 220V version but is there a reason to run in on a 220v 30A circuit if a 220V 20A circuit is available?
North America is either [email protected] or [email protected], there is no such thing as 220v or 110v here.
Being a higher voltage, it will draw less current; but probably not a world-changing amount less.

[email protected] and [email protected] is foreign power.
Less cycles and lower voltage = more current draw
More cycles and higher voltage = less current draw

The advantage of industrial 3-phase power is that it is basically: 180hz (not really, but you can think of it that way if it helps you understand 3-phase better.)

I run all of my clones on 120v. That said, the power cable is a dual 2awg feeder and the romex is about 12inches, so I don't get much voltage drop, my house is the first tap off the pole transformer... I lucked out there. (and I don't clip the stink of out my amps, I don't usually clip them at-all.)

The FP's powering my tweeters and mids, surrounds and heights are all on 15a breakers, because they never go above 2a rms each, basically.
Only the subwoofers are power-hogs, and only when playing the basshead music, and only when playing that stuff at full-tilt; otherwise they too idle at around 2a rms each.

But yeah, if you try to murder your drivers and amps, then they will draw 10's of amps.
Generating SPL via watts is a very inefficient methodology i.e. heat, clipping, a higher powerbill, coil smell and magic smoke.
Generating SPL by doubling cones is the same 3db for-free (it also gives less distortion, less heat, less bottoming, less excursion.) Win-Win.
 

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maximum short term I saw was 38A, long term is 22A, which will destroy the amp if you overdo it (like I did)
13 seconds of continuous unbalanced murder is pretty reasonable for a black-market china amp. I'm surprised it lasted that long actually.
I mean... "Usually" red indicates 🛑 doing that, whatever "it" is... 😉

Green good. Red bad. :p
We definitely now know that it is only a music-amplifier and not a squarewave water-heater. :p

I'm pretty sure the real Gruppen's would just throttle down rather than trying to keep delivering arc-welder power, that is what the Crown's and PowerSoft's do as well. They are "likely" programmed to follow a 20a trip-curve, it's better for the show to go on than trip a breaker or enter protect mode (or smoke).
The legit-amps monitor thermals, current, voltage and connected impedance; they go into protect mode if something is far outside reasonable parameters.

If you need something that delivers continuous-clipping... then you'll need to use the old-school amps. They can't burst worth beans and take up lots of rack/weight, waste lots of power as heat, but they'll clip-for-days... 😉
 

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Thanks guys for the info but do you think 240v 20A would suffice or do I really need to run a 30A 240v line to power 4 San14.250 21" subs in large boxes? I will not be trying to kill these. Much leas volume than probably either of you guys use especially @BassThatHz ....he's just crazy! Lol
 

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Those drivers are easy to drive. You should be fine with your 20a circuit.
 
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13 seconds of continuous unbalanced murder is pretty reasonable for a black-market china amp. I'm surprised it lasted that long actually.
I mean... "Usually" red indicates 🛑 doing that, whatever "it" is... 😉

Green good. Red bad. :p
We definitely now know that it is only a music-amplifier and not a squarewave water-heater. :p

If you need something that delivers continuous-clipping... then you'll need to use the old-school amps. They can't burst worth beans and take up lots of rack/weight, waste lots of power as heat, but they'll clip-for-days... 😉
The amp was fed a 1khz sine wave in that test and the output didn't exceed 0.5% THD.
 

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I turn off my amps after I'm done watching movies in my theater. Why do you ask?
 

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I turn off my amps after I'm done watching movies in my theater. Why do you ask?
Well my amp is on the other side of the wall in the garage. We watch tv all the time and I have been just leaving it on as there is no 12v input signal to turn it on and off. I might just have to turn it on and off when I need them for movies only.. Damn these Hst-18's hit! I know its nothing compared to some of your systems but these hit so much harder than my um18-22's in ported boxes. Maybe I can add a small sub in the back for normal listening.
 

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@BassThatHz I followed your recommendation and went with the Sinbosen version of the fp20k. It just arrived today and I have not yet racked it, and won't be able to until I get someone to assist!

Eventually I'll figure out a way to run 3x more speaker cables and have each of the 18's run to one channel. For now, I am stuck with the 18's being series/bridged to each other and then running on one cable to present a 4 ohm load.

My fp20k has a sticker on the top that says if testing it out, never test it with less than two channels or it may overheat. That doesn't make me feel great as I need to use it with one channel only until I get more cables run. Are they just CYA or is that a real thing and I can't use this for one channel only?

I also see that you can bridge two channels together, should I be doing that for now or just try with one?
 

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@BassThatHz I followed your recommendation and went with the Sinbosen version of the fp20k. It just arrived today and I have not yet racked it, and won't be able to until I get someone to assist!

Eventually I'll figure out a way to run 3x more speaker cables and have each of the 18's run to one channel. For now, I am stuck with the 18's being series/bridged to each other and then running on one cable to present a 4 ohm load.

My fp20k has a sticker on the top that says if testing it out, never test it with less than two channels or it may overheat. That doesn't make me feel great as I need to use it with one channel only until I get more cables run. Are they just CYA or is that a real thing and I can't use this for one channel only?

I also see that you can bridge two channels together, should I be doing that for now or just try with one?
That's probably because the power supply can supply more sustained power than a single amp module can handle thermally. Because those amps don't have any protection circuits you could run a single channel full tilt until it explodes. If you don't run it full tilt the amp will be fine of course.
 

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The amp was fed a 1khz sine wave in that test and the output didn't exceed 0.5% THD.
Yeah but it's also a black-market clone (with shoddy protection circuitry, if it has any at-all.)
On the clone, any LED above the -4db should be treated as 100% dangerous to its health.
A multi-kW sinewave (at any frequency) held until death is "silly", that said... I still found it highly entertaining to watch in a morbid curiosity type-way. 😎

What tweeter handles 1-4kW rms for 13 seconds? I can't think of any...
100 line-arrays maybe, but then they could also afford a legit Gruppen (or multiples, unclipped.)

Regardless, in any configuration: ear death!
 

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Dude you guys switch your amps off daily or do you leave them powered on all the time?
I always switch mine off. I don't want my house to burn down when I'm not looking, I'd do the same even if it were a PowerSoft, iTech, SpeakerPower, or legit Gruppen.

It will also save you like $1-3 per day.
 

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Are they just CYA or is that a real thing and I can't use this for one channel only?
I also see that you can bridge two channels together, should I be doing that for now or just try with one?
To prevent bus pumping probably, or because the power supply can supply more power than a single channel is designed to cope with (because the clones have shoddy protection).

Bridging both into 8-ohm would be safer.

One of my 20k's I run quad 4-ohm, the other I run quad 2-ohm (the equivalent of 4ohm bridged x2). That said, I almost never clip my amps.
I've been running clones since 2011, and haven't had a single problem with any of them yet.

You can buy like 5-10 clones for the price of 1 new Gruppen, have 3-8 of them fail and you'd still have saved money.
Or 2 new clones vs a highly used Gruppen (if/when available...)

Gruppen's have like a 10 year warranty or whatever, the clones have no warranty. You get what you pay for, and don't get what you don't pay for. 😅
 

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Yeah but it's also a black-market clone (with shoddy protection circuitry, if it has any at-all.)
On the clone, any LED above the -4db should be treated as 100% dangerous to its health.
A multi-kW sinewave (at any frequency) held until death is "silly", that said... I still found it highly entertaining to watch in a morbid curiosity type-way. 😎

What tweeter handles 1-4kW rms for 13 seconds? I can't think of any...
100 line-arrays maybe, but then they could also afford a legit Gruppen (or multiples, unclipped.)

Regardless, in any configuration: ear death!
I'm hitting all 5 green lights on my amp when I'm pushing my subs. They are hitting hard at that point! No other lights are coming on. is that to much?
 

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What is the point of a 2000 watt per channel amp if you could only use 1000 watts, the -3 dB point to be safe?
 

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I'm hitting all 5 green lights on my amp when I'm pushing my subs. They are hitting hard at that point! No other lights are coming on. is that to much?
That depends on what drivers you have, and what box they are in, and what song / movie is being played, and also the amount of EQ used and if a HPF is enabled, and what listening distance is required and desired SPL, and what room-nulls you have.
i.e. everyone's system will be different. One person's too-much is another's not-enough.

Generally speaking though, coil heat and over excursion kills drivers; and heat/over-powering kills amplifiers.

Red/Orange bad... Green good... LOL! 😅

If you need more power you can step up to bridged FP14k's if you think they can handle 13-16kW (or if you just want the headroom to lower amplifier stress, the downside of excessive power is dead drivers so there is a limit.)

Generally speaking: things don't like to be red-lined or over-driven. Don't do that and it should last a lifetime.

That's why I have an array of FP amps. The Fostex super's, SEOS's and mids would all be dead if I hammered on the amps because none of them are rated to handle 1.3kW per driver @ 8-ohms (which is how I have it wired).
From 70hz up, clipping is literally unpossible in my system. The drivers are the limit, not the amps. (As I explained though, that comes with increased risk, especially since I don't have any passive crossovers. It's directly attached to the output.)
The tweeters reach ear-death SPL, well before the -4db LED is even attained.
Only the subwoofers could ever think of drinking that much power.

Since I have 16 PA-460's, I hit 115db @ 2 watts at 10ft away, give or take. Yet that array is rated for 8kW (which is what I have it powered with.)
The dynamic expression is so high it is ear-bleed aggressive when cranked.

You'll be grasping your ears just like the girl in this song:
That's 130db, but still 1/20th power on the bass FP's and 1/100th power on the treble FP's.

It is nowhere near clipped and nowhere near full excursion either (the cones are barely even moving...)
The ULF is well covered too... but I must say: there is NEVER enough 1-20hz. 🙃

We all have to fill our addictions in our own ways...
Maximum adrenaline + testosterone, so many chemicals, it's amazing we can even function at-all... :D
 

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It is nowhere near clipped and nowhere near full excursion either (the cones are barely even moving...)
The ULF is well covered too... but I must say: there is NEVER enough 1-20hz.
Gotta get my 18’s built to go with the 24s. The house was starting to complain with the two 24s but with 40hz crossover to the titans they will be moving too much once there is more cone area. Prob go to 60 and add 18s. Anyway cool track.
 
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