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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, I was just browsing through the LCD forum and was on the LNxxb750 series LCD and one poster reported a 47ms lag time with game mode turned on, and 97ms lag with game mode turned off. My question is this: Why do you need to make adjustments to play games? I just pop a game into my xbox, set my s360 5.1 and play, on a samsung plasma,no adjustments needed.


What is the average lag of a plasma with a manufacture date of say, late 08/09(taking different manufacturers into account), and does it vary from game to game?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazishere /forum/post/16950291


Plasma has no issue with lag time, any more than a CRT has. This is an LCD issue only.

Actually it CAN be a issue with both Plasma and LCD. Most game lag is introduced by processing and not the panel itself.


Samsung LCD sets (some of them) seem to have more lag than most other sets.
 

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Lag is such a loose term and should not be generalized.



Input latency can be caused by wide range of variances including the game itself. For example, incorrectly configured analogue controls can often lead to laggy response.


In the new Panasonic PDPs, input latency is not an issue. On LCDs, it varies between models.
 

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In my general experience the worst input lag offenders are SPVA panels. I haven't seen one with less than 30ms of lag yet. That doesn't mean plasmas are immune, the 5020 at least has a good deal of lag. Panasonic in my experience excels, their plasma last year were pretty much input lag free and according to Nielo this year too.


I might be wrong but I think SPVA lag comes mostly from overdrive, when computer monitors started using overdrive input lag suddenly became an issue. You didn't hear about this on old VA/TN/IPS panels. Samsung's new LCDs are especially bad at 60ms+ input lag time.


IMHO anything under 35ms is good and playable. I play a lot of Unreal Tournament and feel that I can still stick headshots/moving shock combos easy enough with a 35ms or less display. Anything higher than that and the controls are sloppy and you miss all the time.
 

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I've just tested a S-PVA with serious overdrive issues and it produced negligible lag.


The same applies to my 3 year old PVA, which also has certain level of overdrive.



From my understanding, it's best not to generalize the lag or confine it to a single group.
 

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I made a thread a while back about trying a Panasonic Plasma G10, and a Samsung B650 LCD in COD4. From my experience at the store, the B650 even when not in game mode seemed pretty responsive, and controls did improve slightly with game mode on. The biggest difference between the 2 panel types was the amount of ghosting/trailing. I noticed when panning around on the LCD, there was alot of blurring on screen. The G10 blew the LCD out of the water in this regard.


So from that experience, since I am not a pro gamer (maybe intermediate-advanced), i would say that input lag from a console seemed overrated, especially with game mode on. The blurring of the lcd image was the biggest turn off.


As said before, input lag (and ghosting) will vary from lcd to lcd and plasma to plasma, but everything ive seen and read points me towards FPS on a plasma as the way to go.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM /forum/post/16954156


PS: Input lag is a major issue with the new Samsung and Sony range. Hopefully next year it'll all be solved.

I'd like to see some hard numbers to back that up, especially with regards to Samsung's 2009 plasma line. I've been looking for weeks and haven't seen a single lag test result.
 

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hmm that really sucks about the plasmas. Guess ill have to go back at try a game at 30fps.


The plasma was night and day better in COD4, but since so few games actually run at 60fps, maybe id be better off with an LCD that can handle them better. I guess ill have to see how bad it is..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM /forum/post/16954376

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...1&postcount=14

You know, back when I was giving all those LCDs a try, I saw 30fps judder on the LCDs, the blur just hid it really well, but it was still there. The new Panasonic sets also have some type of motion processing going on, and the judder was greatly reduced because of it. (and shockingly enough, the motion processing adds no lag at all, still only 16ms) coming off of a Samsung a750 to a Panasonic G10 was a night and day difference in almost every aspect of the display, the G10 was just plain better.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON /forum/post/16955937


You know, back when I was giving all those LCDs a try, I saw 30fps judder on the LCDs, the blur just hid it really well, but it was still there. The new Panasonic sets also have some type of motion processing going on, and the judder was greatly reduced because of it. (and shockingly enough, the motion processing adds no lag at all, still only 16ms) coming off of a Samsung a750 to a Panasonic G10 was a night and day difference in almost every aspect of the display, the G10 was just plain better.

Thats good news. Im gonna go test out a few sets for the frame doubling soon. Just curious, what game(s) were u playing where you saw the difference with 30fps? Need to figure out what to bring with me to test.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON /forum/post/16955937


You know, back when I was giving all those LCDs a try, I saw 30fps judder on the LCDs, the blur just hid it really well, but it was still there. The new Panasonic sets also have some type of motion processing going on, and the judder was greatly reduced because of it. (and shockingly enough, the motion processing adds no lag at all, still only 16ms) coming off of a Samsung a750 to a Panasonic G10 was a night and day difference in almost every aspect of the display, the G10 was just plain better.

I think the last year's and this year's Panasonic PDPs have low-level MCFI.


I don't know how helpful they will be in games since games rarely have stable frame rate.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM /forum/post/16956161


I think the last year's and this year's Panasonic PDPs have low-level MCFI.


I don't know how helpful they will be in games since games rarely have stable frame rate.

It really smoothed out the frame doubling that bugged me on both my 42px75 and the 5020 that I had, not as smooth as the LCDs with AMP on High, but still much smoother. Too bad the LCDs don't work like you say they do, because it would have been nice, but they still have judder if they are running below 60fps, even with AMP activated, it still doubles the frame to fit in the 60hz nature of the display. (and in the case of 120hz and 240hz sets, it multiplies them even farther, leading to even more judder.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM /forum/post/16956161


I think the last year's and this year's Panasonic PDPs have low-level MCFI.


I don't know how helpful they will be in games since games rarely have stable frame rate.

Is that an inherant game flaw, or is it the display that has to catch up with tech advances in the game world?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joebloggs13 /forum/post/16956407


Is that an inherant game flaw, or is it the display that has to catch up with tech advances in the game world?

It is a game problem, game makers try to push the hardware harder than they should, leading to choppy frame rates. (look at Mass Effect, worst framerate I have ever seen this gen vs Call of Duty 4, one of the best frame rates I have seen this gen.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON /forum/post/16956429


It is a game problem, game makers try to push the hardware harder than they should, leading to choppy frame rates. (look at Mass Effect, worst framerate I have ever seen this gen vs Call of Duty 4, one of the best frame rates I have seen this gen.)

I am playing Dead Space and there is almost no lag that I can see. I am also playing Oblivion and there are some glitches(slowdowns), which I attributed to the earlier manufacture date and the sheer size of the game (software programing), as it is a much larger game compared to Dead Space, played on the same platform.
 
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