Does anyone know why when the last of the Lambda drivers are gone there will be no more (if I am reading their webpage correctly)? From their pricing page: Lambda Acoustics CLOSEOUT Pricing . The reason I ask is I am thinking of making putting together a speaker design. I am thinking of a WWMMT for left and right and than MTM for the center. My thoughts so far the 10 Lambda's with PHL mid and as of yet undetermined tweeter. I know getting drivers before having a fully put together design is probably very backwards but I have read where these drivers are highly thought of and if they are going to be discontinued I thought of picking some up.
Lambda drivers
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Might try emptying your browser's cache more often than every 5yrs.....
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Lambda has been out of business for a very long time.
JohnJ at AE Speakers bought the Lambda inventory and can make most of the Lambda designs... http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie...5bb0abf75c6d46
Lambda has been out of business for a very long time.
JohnJ at AE Speakers bought the Lambda inventory and can make most of the Lambda designs... http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie...5bb0abf75c6d46
OK, cannot stop laughing. I had seen there name mentioned in the below thread, so I just googled them and got to their page. I guess those are "really" not available anymore. I will take a look at the page you referenced. Thanks.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=972408&page=5
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=972408&page=5
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853 Posts
We bought out most of the remaining inventory from Lambda back about 4 yrs ago now. We have since been continuing to make all of their drivers. Only the TD series will make it to our standard product line, but any of their past drivers can be made at custom request.
We do make the 10" Lambda drivers as well. We just recently used the TD10X's in a recording studio for Nick Barnett that I collaborated with Mark Seaton on. You can see some info here:
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie...p?p=3513#p3513
We actually took and edited pics of the TD10's and TD12's for the website last week. We should have pics of the TD15's done this week and then can soon update the website with all the info. In the meantime if you are looking for info on the drivers you can still see the old site on the web archive here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200306022.../products.html
If there are specific drivers you're looking for, let me know.
John
We do make the 10" Lambda drivers as well. We just recently used the TD10X's in a recording studio for Nick Barnett that I collaborated with Mark Seaton on. You can see some info here:
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie...p?p=3513#p3513
We actually took and edited pics of the TD10's and TD12's for the website last week. We should have pics of the TD15's done this week and then can soon update the website with all the info. In the meantime if you are looking for info on the drivers you can still see the old site on the web archive here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200306022.../products.html
If there are specific drivers you're looking for, let me know.
John
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853 Posts
I guess I should comment on the original post too.
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Are you also going with a separate subwoofer? If you are, you could easily do something with the TD10M's just mated to a compression driver, ribbon, coaxial, etc. Good options would be the B&C 8" coaxial we used in Nick's system, the 8" coaxial from 18sound, the neopro 5i ribbon by fountek, etc. The response on the TD10M's can easily extend upwards of 5KHz on axis and to 2KHz off axis. We use them in some bass guitar cabinets where they are called to play nearly fullrange, up to over 10KHz on axis. I don't doubt the PHL is a good driver, but the Lambda's are known for their superior midbass. Not to mention with the pair of TD10M's and something like the Fountek tweeter, you'd have a system at in around 100dB 1w/1m. Build 3 vertical MTM's for the 3 fronts and you have an amazingly efficient system, well controlled vertically to eliminate reflections, and having all 3 the same gives you the same tone all across.
John
I guess I should comment on the original post too.
John
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130 Posts
Hi John. Funny you should mention a 10" with Fountek neo5, because this is the exact setup I would like to build for phatplanetstudios where I am the technician. We will be using a dedicated sub, but would like high efficiency and great dynamic impact. Recommend the 10M's or the TD10X's?
Could you let me know what a set of 4 of either choice would go for and the appox. lead time you need? Either on here or private :
speakerguy at hotmail.com
Thanks so much. Greg Begland
Could you let me know what a set of 4 of either choice would go for and the appox. lead time you need? Either on here or private :
speakerguy at hotmail.com
Thanks so much. Greg Begland
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853 Posts
Hi Greg,
I'll send an email off in the morning. Got a phone call and I'm up at 3am but don't have access to my email here. haha I googled phatplanetstudios and see you are in orlando area? Did you buy drivers from Lambda in the past? If you checked out the studio we did in the link above, notice we used 4 15" drivers in vented enclosures for the low end in that system. In reality the 4 10" drivers alone were quite impressive down to 25hz or so in that room, but we wanted the 10hz extension. System will do upwards of 110dB in room all the way down to 10hz. Works amazing for hearing and getting rid of that low end stuff that just shouldn't be there.
If you are going to use a sub and the high efficiency ribbon, I'd go with the TD10M's. They have less Xmax, but more efficiency and higher extension giving you more room to play with the xover point. The cloth surround is more well behaved than the foam, although the foam is hand coated and is quite well damped too so the TDX can do 2KHz as well. I think based on efficiency though the TD10M would be a better match. I've actually been debating a project like this for myself for awhile so lets talk and maybe I can help you out with the design. Are you planning to go active or passive for the xover? Active would be easy, but due to the flat impedance of the ribbon and the nearly flat impedance of the TD10's, it would be quite easy to do passively as well.
John
Hi Greg,
I'll send an email off in the morning. Got a phone call and I'm up at 3am but don't have access to my email here. haha I googled phatplanetstudios and see you are in orlando area? Did you buy drivers from Lambda in the past? If you checked out the studio we did in the link above, notice we used 4 15" drivers in vented enclosures for the low end in that system. In reality the 4 10" drivers alone were quite impressive down to 25hz or so in that room, but we wanted the 10hz extension. System will do upwards of 110dB in room all the way down to 10hz. Works amazing for hearing and getting rid of that low end stuff that just shouldn't be there.
If you are going to use a sub and the high efficiency ribbon, I'd go with the TD10M's. They have less Xmax, but more efficiency and higher extension giving you more room to play with the xover point. The cloth surround is more well behaved than the foam, although the foam is hand coated and is quite well damped too so the TDX can do 2KHz as well. I think based on efficiency though the TD10M would be a better match. I've actually been debating a project like this for myself for awhile so lets talk and maybe I can help you out with the design. Are you planning to go active or passive for the xover? Active would be easy, but due to the flat impedance of the ribbon and the nearly flat impedance of the TD10's, it would be quite easy to do passively as well.
John
John,
Thank you very much for the information. I will be honest here and let you know that this is my first attempt at a speaker build. It sounds like what Greg is looking for is something I would be interested in also. I do have a separate sub in the room. At least for my setup I would need to go passive on the crossover and am not locked into a particular style of tweeter. If there is anyway you could provide me the information that you are sending to Greg that would be great to review. Again, thanks for your time and help.
James
Thank you very much for the information. I will be honest here and let you know that this is my first attempt at a speaker build. It sounds like what Greg is looking for is something I would be interested in also. I do have a separate sub in the room. At least for my setup I would need to go passive on the crossover and am not locked into a particular style of tweeter. If there is anyway you could provide me the information that you are sending to Greg that would be great to review. Again, thanks for your time and help.
James
John,
I just have a follow question up on your comment about having all three speakers in the vertical position. Would it be possible to place the center in a horizontal position? I was thinking the tweeter (if ribbon) could be rotated. Since I am a beginner at this, would that throw the sound quality off? The reason I ask is my center channel sits on top of my RPTV (see picture below). Thanks again for your help and advice.
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I just have a follow question up on your comment about having all three speakers in the vertical position. Would it be possible to place the center in a horizontal position? I was thinking the tweeter (if ribbon) could be rotated. Since I am a beginner at this, would that throw the sound quality off? The reason I ask is my center channel sits on top of my RPTV (see picture below). Thanks again for your help and advice.
In addition to John's loudspeaker recipe. Another favorite is;
A classic 3 way loudspeaker design using modern drivers.
*Higher sensitivity drivers like high end true ribbons or planars
*PHL audio mids; PHL 1120 [6.5"], PHL 2520 [8"], PHL 3450 [10"]. If you want midwoofers instead, PHL1340 or
PHL 1240 [16 ohm].
* Lambda TD12X or TD15X woofers [with faraday motor].
If you did a fully active system with amplifiers with
higher headroom like pro audio amps, you are in for a
treat. But you don't have to, the PHL mids won't require
complex crossoverr. They have less problems due to their
paper treated cones. They are tolerable with no low pass
filter if you did an audition whereas other popular mids have a nasty
sound, hence those designs have very steep crossover slopes to
filter out the crud. If the driver sounds nice with no low pass,
then it will have no problems operating with a simple crossover,
even a silly 1st order low pass can be a great choice.
Lambda TD12/TD15 are amazing with no low pass. Unlike
a traditional woofer design that will sound nasty in the higher
frequency range, the low inductance design + phase plug + paper treated cone,
makes the large Lambda pretty much sound like a big quality midrange driver
that has high xmax and the ability to do lower bass. A crossover for this can be very simple too!
[I'm basing this off the original Lambda's made by Nick @ Lambda. I haven't use the John
hand crafted Lambda's, I can only assume it's equal or better]. If you use the Lambda,
just verify that you have the super low inductance motor design included, phase plug
and treated paper cone.
The tweeter you choose will probably need a more complex
crossover, it depends. If you push your tweeter to higher SPL levels, then I would use a steeper slope crossover as a
way to get more power handing on the tweeter, to protect it. I also like fusing tweeters.
Here is some project pics from others.
'Substrates' loudspeaker: Raven ribbons, PHL 6.5" midwoofers, Lambda TD12X.
http://members.shaw.ca/lcleven/home_page1.html
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/sh...d.php?t=191130
AR2's Loudspeaker: Esg ribbons, PHL 10" pure midrange, Lambda SD12.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=21523
[notes: You need to register with diyaudio.com to see this. You can use TD series instead of SD series]
Taken from diyaudio.com. It's a Fountek ribbon, Audax PR170M0 pure midrange, Lambda TD15X.
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/lambda/speaker-3.jpg
note: PR170M0 has a similar sonic character to PHL 1120.
Feandil's [CAF username] loudspeaker: DIY ribbon later he said it was
replaced with AC brand ribbon, dual PHL 1120 pure mids, dual Lambda TD15X.
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/lambda/speaker-4.jpg
Feandil's inspiration for cabinet design was the Avalon Sentinel.
http://www.avalonacoustics.com/
All these designs have many things in common which gives you the final
SQ of the system. The cabinet design can be anything you want. If you
use ribbons or planar tweeters, then just make sure the tweeter is aimed
at the listener for best results as the vertical dispersion is not as good as a dome
tweeter. Exception to this rule is if you use the very small ribbons, short elements,
ie, certain LCY ribbons, the new Raven 'point source' ribbon, etc.
If you look at Feandil's design, he aimed the tweeter section down as the ribbon
is optimized for the seating position when listening to music.
A classic 3 way loudspeaker design using modern drivers.
*Higher sensitivity drivers like high end true ribbons or planars
*PHL audio mids; PHL 1120 [6.5"], PHL 2520 [8"], PHL 3450 [10"]. If you want midwoofers instead, PHL1340 or
PHL 1240 [16 ohm].
* Lambda TD12X or TD15X woofers [with faraday motor].
If you did a fully active system with amplifiers with
higher headroom like pro audio amps, you are in for a
treat. But you don't have to, the PHL mids won't require
complex crossoverr. They have less problems due to their
paper treated cones. They are tolerable with no low pass
filter if you did an audition whereas other popular mids have a nasty
sound, hence those designs have very steep crossover slopes to
filter out the crud. If the driver sounds nice with no low pass,
then it will have no problems operating with a simple crossover,
even a silly 1st order low pass can be a great choice.
Lambda TD12/TD15 are amazing with no low pass. Unlike
a traditional woofer design that will sound nasty in the higher
frequency range, the low inductance design + phase plug + paper treated cone,
makes the large Lambda pretty much sound like a big quality midrange driver
that has high xmax and the ability to do lower bass. A crossover for this can be very simple too!
[I'm basing this off the original Lambda's made by Nick @ Lambda. I haven't use the John
hand crafted Lambda's, I can only assume it's equal or better]. If you use the Lambda,
just verify that you have the super low inductance motor design included, phase plug
and treated paper cone.
The tweeter you choose will probably need a more complex
crossover, it depends. If you push your tweeter to higher SPL levels, then I would use a steeper slope crossover as a
way to get more power handing on the tweeter, to protect it. I also like fusing tweeters.
Here is some project pics from others.
'Substrates' loudspeaker: Raven ribbons, PHL 6.5" midwoofers, Lambda TD12X.
http://members.shaw.ca/lcleven/home_page1.html
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/sh...d.php?t=191130
AR2's Loudspeaker: Esg ribbons, PHL 10" pure midrange, Lambda SD12.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=21523
[notes: You need to register with diyaudio.com to see this. You can use TD series instead of SD series]
Taken from diyaudio.com. It's a Fountek ribbon, Audax PR170M0 pure midrange, Lambda TD15X.
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/lambda/speaker-3.jpg
note: PR170M0 has a similar sonic character to PHL 1120.
Feandil's [CAF username] loudspeaker: DIY ribbon later he said it was
replaced with AC brand ribbon, dual PHL 1120 pure mids, dual Lambda TD15X.
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/lambda/speaker-4.jpg
Feandil's inspiration for cabinet design was the Avalon Sentinel.
http://www.avalonacoustics.com/
All these designs have many things in common which gives you the final
SQ of the system. The cabinet design can be anything you want. If you
use ribbons or planar tweeters, then just make sure the tweeter is aimed
at the listener for best results as the vertical dispersion is not as good as a dome
tweeter. Exception to this rule is if you use the very small ribbons, short elements,
ie, certain LCY ribbons, the new Raven 'point source' ribbon, etc.
If you look at Feandil's design, he aimed the tweeter section down as the ribbon
is optimized for the seating position when listening to music.
Thy,
Thank you for your information here and in the PM. I believe John is speaking of a design I would really be interested in. I am limiting myself to a 10 driver due to cabinet width. My thought is, with a 10 driver I will be looking at a minimum width of 12 on the cabinet and do not want to go past that. The information he posted (if I read it correctly), would allow the 10 to cover both bass and mid and than be crossed to a tweeter. Leaving only the crossover to the tweeter to made. If this design could go down to say 30-40HZ than my sub can easily take it from there. I would not be running active crossovers on this and would be pushing them with a Rotel RMB1075. I am thinking a tower for the L-R and smaller box for the center. With the towers I would assume internally the drivers would be inside their own sealed compartment leaving the rest of the inside not used. I hope that part makes sense. Just to throw some more information out there. I use my existing system for everything from movies, music and gaming. I am looking for (and I hate this part) speakers that at most any level I can here each part of what is playing. Also, when I crank it past 100db and am doing work around the house, the singer does not sound like he has been smoking 5 packs of cigs. I know that may not be the best way to describe things and that's I hate to try but there we go. Thanks.
James
Thank you for your information here and in the PM. I believe John is speaking of a design I would really be interested in. I am limiting myself to a 10 driver due to cabinet width. My thought is, with a 10 driver I will be looking at a minimum width of 12 on the cabinet and do not want to go past that. The information he posted (if I read it correctly), would allow the 10 to cover both bass and mid and than be crossed to a tweeter. Leaving only the crossover to the tweeter to made. If this design could go down to say 30-40HZ than my sub can easily take it from there. I would not be running active crossovers on this and would be pushing them with a Rotel RMB1075. I am thinking a tower for the L-R and smaller box for the center. With the towers I would assume internally the drivers would be inside their own sealed compartment leaving the rest of the inside not used. I hope that part makes sense. Just to throw some more information out there. I use my existing system for everything from movies, music and gaming. I am looking for (and I hate this part) speakers that at most any level I can here each part of what is playing. Also, when I crank it past 100db and am doing work around the house, the singer does not sound like he has been smoking 5 packs of cigs. I know that may not be the best way to describe things and that's I hate to try but there we go. Thanks.
James
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130 Posts
Thanks for the quick reply John. We are currently planning on going active. We have a Crown K2 and a Bryston in the wings waiting to be used. I will probably do initial set-up and testing with my DCX2496 and then see where is goes from there. As you can see from the web site, the control room is not that large. Actually, we just did a huge acoustic make-over, ripped out the drop ceiling grid, raised the ceiling up by several feet and added tons of odd angles. Came out really well and now that that project is done, we are ready to move on the monitors and get those Quested pieces of junk out of there. Get me some prices on the different versions of the 10's whenever you've got a moment. Thanks again.
Greg Begland
ps. I never bought anything from Nick when he was still around here in business, but I did live in walking distance from his old shop and hung out there a few times. He also visited the studio WAY back before it was nearly as nice as is it now.
Greg Begland
ps. I never bought anything from Nick when he was still around here in business, but I did live in walking distance from his old shop and hung out there a few times. He also visited the studio WAY back before it was nearly as nice as is it now.
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4,421 Posts
Your using the K2's full range? I'd use XTI's but if you have tested it and feel it sounds good, go for it. I have not seen much endorsement for class D full range, if you want full range to class AB or I, if you aren't doing subs, class H's are a HF beast.
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4,645 Posts
I, like those whom have posted in this thread, like loud clean music/movies. I have two pairs of Cerwin Vega LS-12's I'm wanting to replace, because I need better sound quality. I really love the output I get with them, but believed I couldn't keep my output and have good quality sound without going with expensive line array's. Now with all this pro-audio-drivers talk that's been going on in a few of these threads, it seems like it could still be possible to get ear bleeding output that I like, while maintaining the quality that I need. Is this possible?
John_E_J, referring to the MTM you mentioned...
What kind of beaming will one get using TD10m's as a mid?
Is it necessary to use the Faraday motor, or do you even offer any other options?
Can your MTM design acheive the same quality sound with simple passive XO's of say these designs , but with 10db more sensitivity?
John_E_J, referring to the MTM you mentioned...
What kind of beaming will one get using TD10m's as a mid?
Is it necessary to use the Faraday motor, or do you even offer any other options?
Can your MTM design acheive the same quality sound with simple passive XO's of say these designs , but with 10db more sensitivity?
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853 Posts
Ok, sorry its been awhile for me to get back on here. Anyone want to help out and do some of my work for me? haha Anyway, a few comments on the dual TD10M/NeoPro5i system. First I think we should put things into perspective on what this system will be capable of. This will be an extremely accurate system with high efficiency, capable of monitoring in nearly any studio application. Mated with a proper subwoofer these will be a true studio reference quality system. My plan is to eventually offer these as a powered, semi portable, solution to recording studios, but throughout the design and build I will also offer them as a DIY system with a passive crossover design.
By nature, ribbon tweeters have a fairly narrow vertical bandwidth. Most I have worked with had a range of about 5 degrees both above and below to work with, but within that +/- 5degree range are very smooth and have very little variation. They also have very good horizontal dispersion. The MTM design by nature has well controlled vertical dispersion and good horizontal so the TD10's can match quite well to the ribbon. So, by design you can expect very good horizontal, up to about 120 degrees with a limited vertical response.
The vertical dispersion makes some things happen that can be good or bad. The good thing is with the reflections being well eliminated by design, ceiling reflections and as a result, ceiling treatment, becomes less critical. The other thing is that it means vertical placement is more critical. However, you need to be within this vertical window to get the benefits of the tweeter. As an example, the ribbon height itself is 5.7". If you are listening at an 8ft distance, this gives you a pattern height of about 22.5", at 10ft you're at about 27", at 15ft about 37". For a studio or dedicated 2 channel listening room this is ideal as you are almost always at the same vertical height for listening. For a theater room it can work well also as long as your vertical placement is correct and you define your listening height. For the LCR, it is typically quite easy as you are at a far enough distance away. Even if you were sitting only 8ft from the screen and LCR, which is quite close, you can cover a range of 22.5" high. A very tall person sitting straight up in a chair would have an ear height at no more than 35" from the seat. I am 6ft tall and my ear height when sitting perfectly straight is about 30". My soon to be 3yr old daughter has an ear height of something like 16". She won't ever sit still to really let me measure her exactly.
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Anyway, point being that for every height of person, sitting up fully, slouching, etc at 8ft away, a 22.5" vertical window should be enough to cover the whole range. As you get farther away or get back to a second row of seating you have even more vertical coverage. So the LCR is pretty easy. The surrounds, depending on how they are set in the room would give less of a vertical window so would be more particular to vertical placement. Luckily the surround program material is typically less critical than the LCR. The ribbons also don't completely drop off after 5degrees, but roll off more at higher frequencies first, just like any other tweeter.
The efficiency of both the TD10's and NeoPro are also very high and match well. You can expect near 100dB with 1w input power. Mark Seaton really got me hooked on the high efficiency stuff recently when we did Nick's recording studio. There is just something about effortless sound when with 10W you can reach levels that most speakers require hundreds of watts to achieve. You also have great headroom available for transient peaks.
Again this is something I would like to pursue myself. I have a few applications these would work quite well for and have been planning on something similar for awhile. We are currently building all the Lambda drivers to order with about a 1 week lead time, so they are available. I'm actually expecting pictures and info to go up on the website for all the Lambda TD woofers quite soon.
John
By nature, ribbon tweeters have a fairly narrow vertical bandwidth. Most I have worked with had a range of about 5 degrees both above and below to work with, but within that +/- 5degree range are very smooth and have very little variation. They also have very good horizontal dispersion. The MTM design by nature has well controlled vertical dispersion and good horizontal so the TD10's can match quite well to the ribbon. So, by design you can expect very good horizontal, up to about 120 degrees with a limited vertical response.
The vertical dispersion makes some things happen that can be good or bad. The good thing is with the reflections being well eliminated by design, ceiling reflections and as a result, ceiling treatment, becomes less critical. The other thing is that it means vertical placement is more critical. However, you need to be within this vertical window to get the benefits of the tweeter. As an example, the ribbon height itself is 5.7". If you are listening at an 8ft distance, this gives you a pattern height of about 22.5", at 10ft you're at about 27", at 15ft about 37". For a studio or dedicated 2 channel listening room this is ideal as you are almost always at the same vertical height for listening. For a theater room it can work well also as long as your vertical placement is correct and you define your listening height. For the LCR, it is typically quite easy as you are at a far enough distance away. Even if you were sitting only 8ft from the screen and LCR, which is quite close, you can cover a range of 22.5" high. A very tall person sitting straight up in a chair would have an ear height at no more than 35" from the seat. I am 6ft tall and my ear height when sitting perfectly straight is about 30". My soon to be 3yr old daughter has an ear height of something like 16". She won't ever sit still to really let me measure her exactly.
The efficiency of both the TD10's and NeoPro are also very high and match well. You can expect near 100dB with 1w input power. Mark Seaton really got me hooked on the high efficiency stuff recently when we did Nick's recording studio. There is just something about effortless sound when with 10W you can reach levels that most speakers require hundreds of watts to achieve. You also have great headroom available for transient peaks.
Again this is something I would like to pursue myself. I have a few applications these would work quite well for and have been planning on something similar for awhile. We are currently building all the Lambda drivers to order with about a 1 week lead time, so they are available. I'm actually expecting pictures and info to go up on the website for all the Lambda TD woofers quite soon.
John
A lot of my years spent in the studio environment had people/band members/producer/etc. standing around the console which is at the sweet spot. Everyone wanted to hear what the engineer and producer were hearing so that they could 'help'. By definition I would think vertical dispersion could become an issue as someone sitting down and listening might stand up and lose the high end of the mix. Or people in the sweet spot of the vertical dispersion would hear it much differently than the people standing behind them. Just a thought.
Chuck
A lot of my years spent in the studio environment had people/band members/producer/etc. standing around the console which is at the sweet spot. Everyone wanted to hear what the engineer and producer were hearing so that they could 'help'. By definition I would think vertical dispersion could become an issue as someone sitting down and listening might stand up and lose the high end of the mix. Or people in the sweet spot of the vertical dispersion would hear it much differently than the people standing behind them. Just a thought.
Chuck
OK, since I do not know I will ask those who do. I have never owned any speakers with ribbons in them. In the talk of the vertical dispersion and basically inside or outside of this dispersion pattern, is it so apparent when you go outside of it, that you say, damn, half the sound is now gone? Thanks.
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