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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,


I've moved overseas and need to make a new screen for my Epson TW600 LCD projector. My old screen was stretched BOC, about 95". It was good but I was always curious about other options.


My projector will now be set up ~ 4 m from a screen of width 2.2-2.5 m. I have total external light control, but the walls of the room (~5 x 6 m) are yellow-orange, and the tiled floor is quite reflective. My bulb is at 2000 hrs and I always use low lamp mode. My projector will be set up on a shelf, not on the ceiling.


I received Designer White (D354-60) and Fashion Grey (D381-60) samples and compared them against my mattress. As I changed my viewing angle, I noticed an obvious change in brightness/sheen from the laminate, especially the FG. The DW was also extremely bright.


My question is: is my set up suitable for a laminate screen, or will I have problems with hot spotting/non-uniformity? I'm also worried about the black levels from the DW.


As a student, I always have to look for the best option at the lowest price, and can't afford to waste money. Please help me work out what's best!
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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With the Epson TW600 set on Low lamp and calibrated optimally, you'll do fine with WA-DW. The FG won't respond well with a shelf mounted application (Table top would be best) and even them some have not cared for its performance.


FG is not a ambient light solution. In your case, more than adequate brightness off screen might help you room's contribution toward reflecting light back to the screen. To really get a better results, consider some wall hangings, and especially a Black Out Panel on the ceiling above the screen.


Do those few things and you can let the Epson TW600 do it's thing...deliver you some decent contrast on low lamp, and let you get the most out of that PJ's performance without resorting to a Contrast Enhancing paint over the WA-DW
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the advice MississippiMann. (I remember your name from my research when I first bought the PJ!)


If you think that DW is the way to go, then I have confidence in that. I'll definitely do my best to blacken the area above and next to the screen. The material that I used for this in Australia will arrive soon. There will be ~3m from the screen to the wall on the left, so that should be okay. The wall on the right I can deal with via a drape.


Should the glow form DW be too bright, is a coat of poly the solution?
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Well, a coat of Poly will attenuate your reflective index. It has to be very thin...and very even. And up to now, mostly a universally acclaimed failure.


I've been giving considerable thought as to how to accomplish a long sought after solution to the "Poly Top Coat" quandry. A non- yellowing Matte Clear Coat has always made sense as a possible fix to a overly reflective surface.


Some few years back, at approx the same time as the BF* formula was birthed, I acquired a Silver Metallic coated Aluminum/Plastic Wafer Panel from a Laminated Panel Mfg. It's surface was a terrific one. SMetallic particles were incredibly fine and well disbursed, and although the tendency toward actual bonafide retro-reflectivity was at the extreme, it was a "smooth" reproduction, not all all grainy in appearance. The viewing cone was maybe.....20 degrees to 1/2 gain.
But in the "40 degree Zone", it was a 10.0+ gain shocker...and one that presented absolute stunning Black levels.


Folks...it was literally unreal.


I posted about it...along with one of my first HVLP Painting videos, but the Thread was Zoinked because to some it seemed to be...well we'll say was deemed inappropriate by a few. Too "Off the DIY'ers mark" Too obviously showed an advantage over normal DIY'ers ability." Funny that...because some of the worst complainers later embraced a far more ambitious and detailed agenda for DIY....one that spent far more money, used expensive equipment, and broached a detail level far more advanced than any normal DIY'er would consider.


Stop. Do Not Rant. Do NOT Bother. Point made.



My point is this. That panel material cost approx $500.00 to acquire. The thin aluminum "Skin" was prone to denting....Bulk was an issue at 12' x 5'.


But who cares!?! I attempted to coat...via standard HVLP Gun, a Panel with two thin coats of Minwax Matte Acrylic Poly .


In one respect it didn't work. Apparent lines from sprayed Horizontal Rows stood out under PJ'd light because a Silver Metallic doing such a unimaginable job of showing detail and color, also pinpoints ANY blemish...any scratch...and weakly coated area.


Case closed. Far to delicate a job for the average DIY'er. I'd be advocating potential disaster on a too high average of attempts.


But what Poly was on there did the job well as far as just managing to control the worst of the problems with hot spotting if the PJ wasn't place correctly...and it improved the viewing cone to approx 40 degrees OA half gain.


That degree of Gain....at that price.....with NO pixel enhancing graininess from the presence of so much Silver Metallic...
You don't forget about something like that.


So I'll be soon revisiting that possibility...at the same time I whip up a CGIV, a BW, a C&S1 and C&S2 ( ...getting awfully close to SF-Light that one is...) a SF 2.0, a SF 3.0, a SF.4.0
and trot out a few of the older 2' x 4' Test Panels as well. Scorpion? Too much similarity to other known applications breeds contempt. Talk about confusing people. All those different pesky Bugs....



But "I" will be fair...and what ever sauce the Goose gets ladled on, the gander...and all the Ducklings will get the same good seasoning. No bias in the making of or empirical testing


This is On Topic.....for symphonic1985,.....the Poly variations are going to also be included.


All new DIY applications (...just like the old ones...) will be meticulously and "correctly' measured and assembled (sprayed) on TWH/ or-& Primed Brown Hardboard / and a few onto Acrylic Mirror.


The Poly experiments will feature 3 different approaches at using that medium to "correctly" suppress excessive gain. I'm making up some real Torch-like painted surfaces, ones that include every known and used reflective paint that could be remotely considered.


I've got a few surprises...and it's time it was made know really how more similar than different ALL the newer DIY mixes have always been...and are getting more so...to what has always been around...in one form or another.


Preceding even my own efforts, virtually EVERYTHING on this, and that "other" Forum (..I actually abhor using that oblique term....) has been "thought of" and attempted in the past. The most successful ones "Performance-wise" were not standard DIY projects, but complex, multi-layered affairs employing Highly reflective bases, painted or solid...with Matte Clear coats or ultra translucent painted Top Coats that served to mute the excessive reflection tendencies of the bases.


Sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it symphonic1985? Stay tuned...it's coming this way very soon.


But forget about rolling on any such project. Too much attenuation...you cannot get a thin enough, yet even enough coat to control hot spotting without muting too much desired overall brightness.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I keep finding myself crawling back through the long forum posts... so much information. They was a lot of choice in 2006 but that has exploded now!


Resopal (the DW distributor) haven't told me the pricing by email. I'm hoping to find that out tomorrow, and and at the same time check out 3 hardware stores in the area...


I'm becoming more and more intrigued with trying a paint job, and want to see what brands of paint they have here. I'm thinking that once you've painted a screen once, it gives you the confidence to try again. And with that comes the possibility for improvement.


If the DW is cheap here, then I'll buy it... But Germany has been expensive so far and I'm not counting on getting good value for money. Deep down, I want to try a gray screen and experience a new level of black. Nothing too dramatic with my aging PJ and bulb (N8 or N8.5?)...
 

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[So I'll be soon revisiting that possibility...at the same time I whip up a CGIV, a BW, a C&S1 and C&S2 ( ...getting awfully close to SF-Light that one is...) a SF 2.0, a SF 3.0, a SF.4.0. M Man. ] Your are the man MMan. Just tell us when?
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriss bonev /forum/post/16991673


[So I'll be soon revisiting that possibility...at the same time I whip up a CGIV, a BW, a C&S1 and C&S2 ( ...getting awfully close to SF-Light that one is...) a SF 2.0, a SF 3.0, a SF.4.0. M Man. ] Your are the man MMan. Just tell us when?

Well...a few things have changed since that post...but not my overall intent.


Mixing several batches today for immediate shipment for independent DIY Testing. Busy...busy....busy.
 

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3M makes car wrap vinyl in metallics and solid colors. They also make various 'top' layers to go over their base layers in matte, satin and gossy. This may be the wrong thread to mention it, but I'd be very interested to see how some of these could perform. Basically as long as you had a solid smooth surface you could lay down the vinyl. If you didn't like it you could just pull it up and try another.


Check any of the car wrap companies. It's pretty popular these days to wrap cars instead of painting them. If you ever see a flat black Lamborghini or Bentley it's generally a wrap job. The technology is there for cars these days. I have to wonder how well it could do for screens..
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Errgh... as I had feared, the pricing in Germany is quite a bit higher. About $US 140 for an 2440x1320x0.8 mm sheet. Not sure about the 1.5 mm, which is what I'd really need.


Given that I'll be moving in 2 years, and then again and again, it might pay to learn how to paint. The problem is working out what brands are applicable in Germany. I've found Dulux paints, but no other familiar names.


I can get 3 mm Masonite/White hardboard for $EU 5 per m2, at any size up to 3000x2000mm. That seems like my best option. Or, should I opt to paint over BOC, would I be at all portable? i.e., when I move, would I be able to take the material off and put it back together without significant damage?
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by symphonic1985 /forum/post/17001269


Given that I'll be moving in 2 years, and then again and again, it might pay to learn how to paint. The problem is working out what brands are applicable in Germany. I've found Dulux paints, but no other familiar names.

Dulux can get you started with decent White bases. The "Light & Space" Acrylic Interior is among the brightest, whitest paints on the Globe. Post out for some Reflective elements such as Silvers, Pearls and/or Aluminum, and the only thing left to source is a Water based Clear Satin Polyurethane.

Quote:
I can get 3 mm Masonite/White hardboard for $EU 5 per m2, at any size up to 3000x2000mm. That seems like my best option.

As far as a smooth, rigid surface ideal to paint upon, it would be. The logistics of lifting and moving a large, rigid Rectangle are the only caveats....all though the may seem intractable ones to such individuals whosae location or transportation affects their choices.


Quote:
Or, should I opt to paint over BOC, would I be at all portable? i.e., when I move, would I be able to take the material off and put it back together without significant damage?

A stretched BOC Screen can receive paint, but it's a two stage process because you must treat the BOC as if it were a un primed wall. Priming...and then painting is the order.


But taking it apart? Not wise. Well constructed it can easily handle being re-located, and it won't kill you to lift / handle it because it will be considerably lighter than a good sized Fixed Screen made of a solid material (inclu Frame & Trim)


Once you knock out a great screen painted onto a really cheap Hardboard substrate, it will dawn on you that such screens are fairly disposable. You can leave 'em, or give them away and never look back because Mo better things are on their way!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I've looked into the price of the Wagner products here in Germany. The W 550 (one of the Control Sprays) goes for about $EU65~$US100, the larger looking one (W 640) is about $EU100. I'm curious about how much the eventual cost of rollers etc is compared to a sprayer. My thinking is that, since I need to move overseas every couple of years, I would use the sprayer several times and it would become cost competitive with buying new rollers all the time.


So I need to buy the Masonite hardwood panel, painting utensils, squirrel cage mixer, and the paints (no primer). I have some black cloth for masking from my last setup. Am I missing anything major?


I saw that someone had made a Black Widow screen on a German AV forum, and had the base mixed for them at a local hardware store. I can buy AAA online.


But BW may be too dark. I don't want to go to high lamp mode because of the extra noise of the fan. Given the difficulty of matching paints here (and not yet speaking the language!) I'll need to go for something simple in any case.


Now I'm hunting online for a polycrylic.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by symphonic1985 /forum/post/17004108


I've looked into the price of the Wagner products here in Germany. The W 550 (one of the Control Sprays) goes for about $EU65~$US100, the larger looking one (W 640) is about $EU100. I'm curious about how much the eventual cost of rollers etc is compared to a sprayer. My thinking is that, since I need to move overseas every couple of years, I would use the sprayer several times and it would become cost competitive with buying new rollers all the time.

6:30 pm over there now. Hows Dinner going?



Good Rollers (...and you do want to use "Good Rollers'....) cost enough to matter...and cannot be really be reused with the same results later. They're a "Toss'er" Not so The "Wagster".


The UK/EU/AU W550 is the same as the US 1 piece Control Spray Unit I've used for over 2 years. The UK/EU/AU W640 is the same as the 2- piece US Fine Spray 2400 model (discontinued in the US)


The latter is a unit more ale to paint larger areas because it will output at least 75% more paint than the self-contained Hand-Held HVLP units.


I recently tried out my newest Wagner, the Control Spray Plus (replacement for the 2400) and it did not disappoint in almost everything it offered. Except on thing. When the Gun's trigger is not pressed, it continues to expel air under considerable pressure from the nozzle. This blast of air can disturb dust and lint, and serve to direct it toward the screen if you hold the gun pointed in that direction while not spraying. The more expensive Wagners' have a on off switch on the Gun itself.


It's a small nuisance, but one the w550 does not have to deal with.

Quote:
So I need to buy the Masonite hardwood panel, painting utensils, squirrel cage mixer, and the paints (no primer). Am I missing anything major?

A Stein of Beer and a Plate of Boiled Pig's Knuckle w/Large Pretzle. Great Monastery Fare !



Quote:
I saw that someone had made a Black Widow screen on a German AV forum, and had the base mixed for them at a local hardware store. I can buy AAA online.


But BW may be too dark. I don't want to go to high lamp mode because of the extra noise of the fan. Given the difficulty of matching paints here (and not yet speaking the language!) I'll need to go for something simple in any case.

Dulux Light & Space Absolute White / Rich Matt is an excellent paint (B&Q)

Tinted a light Gray w/Poly added is a simple start....but if you consider adding something that will not make your paint go to so dark a shift, consider ordering Delta's Silver Meatllic & Pearl Finishes (2 8oz bottles of SM - 4 8 oz PFs) Mixed with Poly & some pure water and "Squirreled" and you'll have a Contrast enhancing Screen paint with REAL gain to play around with.

Quote:
Now I'm hunting online for a polycrylic.

I recently used this while in the UK, and to good results;
Ronseal Satin Clear Quick Drying water based Varnish - from B&Q in the UK
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Haha, how right you are about the beer and pretzels!


I have found the Ronseal paint on ebay.uk, and it can be shipped here, so that's a start. Thanks for the tip - I wasn't getting far.


The Dulux paints, unfortunately, have very different names in Germany (Fashion Line, Quick n Easy, etc.). I'm worried that I may not be able to get the exact "Light and Space" base I've emailed both English and German versions of Dulux Pty to find out if it is sold here in disguise. We'll see...


On the other hand, I have found the website for the German distributor of Delta paints - so those should be get-able, if I go that route. I'll probably need viewing angles close to 40 degrees, since 6 people will be watching movies in there. I don't exactly know how that factors into the equation in terms of maximum gain that I should go for.


While I find out about paints, I need to work out how to get this Masonite home from the HW store. (i.e., talk to my friend/landlord about whether we can pull it off with his roof rack.)


I REALLY want to do better than my old BOC screen. *fingers crosssed*
 

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First, a Mix like RS-MaxxMudd will afford you an excellent Viewing Cone far exceeding what you stated is the minimum you need.


The Dulux L&S-AW would be great to use...but don't go crazy trying to get "just that". Any good quality "very White" Flat Interior Latex Acrylic water based paint will do, and you'll only need at most 1 quart for the mix...and not even all of that.


Keep me informed as to the progress of your search. If you bite on RS-MaxxMudd, we will go down that road in detail as far as mixing and application methods.


But rest assured, your effort will transform your expectations into "exclamations". You will NOT be disappointed.


Essentially....and I don't say this to belittle the suggested DIY application.....besting what you've lived with on that old BOC screen is really easy....a "no problemo" of a certainty.


Go ahead....uncross those digits and be prepared to get "wowed'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I hear you!


I'll keep looking out for what of the usual paint brands/products are available here and for what price.


I have to work hard to finish (and start) some projects for a conference in a couple of weeks, so my HT will have to wait. Errgh... I just want my PJ back
 
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