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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Carl's place: 9x21ft 2.35 outdoor build

Hi,

Elite Yard Master has a 200" diagonal screen (16x9).

Who makes screens in that size or larger, and do any 2.35 outdoor screens exist?

This is for a 4th of July party so I'm going to try and order the screen and projector today, so it'd have to be a pre fabricated screen. I have 20ft of width to play with.

It was suggested to get an Optoma 1080p projector that throws 5000 lumens to light up a screen that size, just wondering if there are larger screens or 2.35 formats out there.

Thanks!
ELmO
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
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Many people make the frame from metal conduit. Carlofet is a well known resource for outdoor theate goods. I'm not sure of the rules of posting to another forum but if you google backyard theater forum you will find a ton of information on making a frame and possibly some more information on a larger screen, there are many commercial people on there.
 

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Found this in search (Carlofet). They have DIY material but also some largeish freestanding screens (16ft wide 16x9, 21ft wide 2.4).

MUCH larger if you DIY (large venue), but I need a frame! 36ft wide 16x9, enormous. 43ft wide 2.4. Obviously need a non consumer PJ for those though.

http://www.carlofet.com/projector-screen-kits/standing-projection-screen-kit.html#.WVKLYmjythE
I would give Carl's a call. They sell the frame fittings and they do make larger screens. I'm sure it's not too difficult to scale up a frame to the size you want. BTW, Carl's has excellent product and customer service. I use one of the Flexiwhite screens and it's very good quality. One inch conduit comes in 10 foot lengths (HomeDepot) so it's really not to difficult to get to the size your talking about. I would be more concerned about any wind as your talking about a really big sail.

Another place to look is Creative Shelters.
https://www.creativeshelters.com/canopy-kits/outdoor-theater

Creative Shelters sells similar fittings in larger sizes which you may want to consider for a screen the size you're talking about.

And their are companies like Backyard Theater Systems that sell the whole package. They have a 20 foot diagonal screen, projector, etc. for $5800.00.

http://www.backyardtheatersystems.com/products/16-silverscreen-showcase-series.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I just got off the phone wiht Carl's.

They mentioned the same thing with Wind, they said it takes about 20 minutes to just detatch the bungee screen. He said most customers just leave the screen up on the weekend. I think the frame sitting there by itself probably looks bad (lol).

I was thikning of buying the Optoma EH515. 1920x1080, 5500 lumens, 10,000 : 1 contrast, and pairing it with the Carl's FLEXIWHITE 9ft tall by 21ft wide screen.

It seems like lumens will be enough (24ftl), image quality maybe not, but people will be sitting 25ft back. I don't think backyard theaters are to be critically watched anyway?

I use an anamorphic lens for 2.4 inside, but outside the projector will lose the resolution and lumens to the darkness. Any thoughts on outdoor 2.4 screens without an anamorphic projector?

Thanks!
 

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I just got off the phone wiht Carl's.

They mentioned the same thing with Wind, they said it takes about 20 minutes to just detatch the bungee screen. He said most customers just leave the screen up on the weekend. I think the frame sitting there by itself probably looks bad (lol).

I was thikning of buying the Optoma EH515. 1920x1080, 5500 lumens, 10,000 : 1 contrast, and pairing it with the Carl's FLEXIWHITE 9ft tall by 21ft wide screen.

It seems like lumens will be enough (24ftl), image quality maybe not, but people will be sitting 25ft back. I don't think backyard theaters are to be critically watched anyway?

I use an anamorphic lens for 2.4 inside, but outside the projector will lose the resolution and lumens to the darkness. Any thoughts on outdoor 2.4 screens without an anamorphic projector?

Thanks!
From my experience, that should be a good combination. I would suggest the the Flixiwhite and you can probably get away with the lower gain Flexigray. You should have around 28-30 fL with Flexiwhite and around 20 fL with the Flexigray. I would suggest the Flexiwhite. The Blackout Cloth is less expensive and a good product but it does require a little more maintenance and is not as durable as the Flexi product.

You should be able to start the movie with a watchable image around twilight. I've got 20fL for my outdoor rig and I can start around 8:30-9:15 at this time here in Michigan, I'm on the north side of Ann Arbor.

I have an ISCO for my indoor theater. To be honest, outside , we just live with the black bars for anamorphic. No one seems to mind and yes, outside is much more social. Everyone brings their blankets and lawn chairs and coolers... it's buckets of fun!

With the throw distance for your combination, I would seriously consider an overhead pole mount or a tall ladder for the projector. You're going to have a lot of distance between projector and screen where people are going to want to sit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Very true.

So I have a stone pillar fence with aluminum fencing in between. I started to wonder if I could build a more permanent/better looking frame, but I have no idea. The pictures of the kit frame look average looking (lol), but nobody wlil see that at night - but during the day it might just be this empty EMT pipe frame standing there.

Good thoughts on the overhead pole mount or tall ladder, yeah I thought people will have to sit to the side of the projector.

I'm using an older panamorph UH480 lens, it does pretty well inside.

Are you using a 16x9 flexiwhite with black bars on anamorphic? I'm having trouble choosing which one, since I'll probably game on it too, wihch will mean black bars on the side, and a lot of kid's movies are 16x9. I can just imagine watching star wars outside, but I think dark movies won't look good unless it has a high CR, but can't have everything outside.

Do you take your screen down after viewing?
 

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Very true.

So I have a stone pillar fence with aluminum fencing in between. I started to wonder if I could build a more permanent/better looking frame, but I have no idea. The pictures of the kit frame look average looking (lol), but nobody wlil see that at night - but during the day it might just be this empty EMT pipe frame standing there.

Well, sure you can and many do. You might want to take a look here:

http://www.carlofet.com/testimonials

http://backyardtheater.com/

The thing with an EMT frame is that it's relatively cheap to build, rather light weight and strong, and reasonably portable. As you'll see if you click on the links above, people have everything from a dirty bed sheet on a close line to some very elaborate installations. It's only money after all... I think you just have to define what you want to do and how much you're willing to spend.

Are you using a 16x9 flexiwhite with black bars on anamorphic? I'm having trouble choosing which one, since I'll probably game on it too, wihch will mean black bars on the side, and a lot of kid's movies are 16x9. I can just imagine watching star wars outside, but I think dark movies won't look good unless it has a high CR, but can't have everything outside.

Do you take your screen down after viewing?
Yes I was, but we down sized this year to a 12' diagonal VisualApex portable screen. Carl's makes a fantastic product, but I set the backyard theater up by myself and I was growing a bit tired of assembling the frame etc.. The VisualApex screen is up and ready to go in less than 15 minuets. We have around 4-10 people for a move and the 12' diagonal works quite well. I also have a full 5.1 sound system. It takes about one hour to set up everything. Yes, we take it down as we're in a forest and leaving the screen up invites a lot of bird droppings on the screen surface. Down sizing also gave me a brighter picture/earlier movie starts.

Regarding black levels, I think you'll be surprised as your eyes will adapt as you're watching the move. Don't sweat the technical stuff you're having fun outside!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I've got a lot of birds in my backyard too, it'll have to come down.

Have you thought about projector stacking? I wonder how blurry the picture would be if I tried to stack 2 Optoma EH515s. That might allow movies to start earlier and the image to not have problems filling the screen. In that case it might also be better to go with Carl's FlexiGray.
 

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I've got a lot of birds in my backyard too, it'll have to come down.

Have you thought about projector stacking? I wonder how blurry the picture would be if I tried to stack 2 Optoma EH515s. That might allow movies to start earlier and the image to not have problems filling the screen. In that case it might also be better to go with Carl's FlexiGray.
I think maybe you're over thinking this a little... :)

Yes, you could stack projectors I guess. Before I did that I would look at a Digital Projection Titan or a big Christie or Barco. And even then you're not going to have a plasma or LED TV experience until the sun goes down. 20-30 fL is plenty after sunset.

YMMV, but part of the charm and excitement is waiting for it to get dark. For us, we cue up some music from the iPod over the sound system that is from the sound track of what we are going to see or something that is complimentary. We grill some hot dogs, burgers, some popcorn, and beverages for the group and maybe run a vintage cartoon while the sun sets.

EDIT: Maybe keep in mind, luminance as recommended by the SMPTE for a commercial theater is 16 foot-lamberts when measured "open-gate". That's going to be approximately equal to a digital projector projecting white light/no image. So a commercial theater is going to have a fL measurement of around 12-16 fL.

The Optoma EH515 with Carl's Flexiwhite material, reported as a 1.1 gain screen, for the screen size you're considering works out to 33fL using Projector Central's calculator. Or, double the fL's of a commercial theater. I think if you have much more than this, it's not going to be as pleasant to view after it gets dark. There's only so much you can do with a flash light in daylight.
 

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@elmalloc

Just to give you some idea, here's photo's, twilight and after sundown, of an Epson HC1040 which is an $799 MSRP projector. It's being shown on a 6.75 'x 12' white screen. This projector and screen size is yielding around 14fL. The black levels of the HC1040 are much less than the Optima you're looking at.


Im sorry I missed this earlier. I myself went with the HC1040. For what I need it for (outdoors), the picture is great. In all reality, I was far more concerned about RBE than black levels





For reference, I picked up 15inch monoprice powered PA speakers and ran them via RCA cables directly to my DVD player. The sound far exceeded my expectations.

That's also a 14.5' diagonal gemmy Jumbotron from target.

Funny too, we moved from Howell 7 years ago to South Carolina.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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That Optoma eh515 only outputs around 1200lm at full color. It uses a pretty huge white segment in its colorwheel for its claimed peak white output which really hurts its ability to show vivid, realistic color.

For a similar price, you might want to consider the newer Epson 3700 which easily doubles the full-color lumen output.
 

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I've got a lot of birds in my backyard too, it'll have to come down.

Have you thought about projector stacking? I wonder how blurry the picture would be if I tried to stack 2 Optoma EH515s. That might allow movies to start earlier and the image to not have problems filling the screen. In that case it might also be better to go with Carl's FlexiGray.
An extra 1000 lumens got me maybe an extra 10 minutes....and that's a generous maybe. I run the HC1040 on bright cinema mode which pumps out 2110 lumens as tested. When I switch over to dynamic, those lumens are jacked up to 3065...but the colors look terrible (as with any dynamic mode).

Speaking of lumens, Ftoast touched on the subject. LCD projectors put out the same color lumens as they do standard lumens. This means the colors will be equally as bright as the whites. While you may be able to get some high lumens from the eh515, if the color lumens aren't high enough you'll have a washed out picture with ambient light. This could possible negate the extra lumens, meaning it's possible that you would have to start later than a comparable LCD projector with less lumens.

Food for thought.
 

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An extra 1000 lumens got me maybe an extra 10 minutes....and that's a generous maybe. I run the HC1040 on bright cinema mode which pumps out 2110 lumens as tested. When I switch over to dynamic, those lumens are jacked up to 3065...but the colors look terrible (as with any dynamic mode).

Speaking of lumens, Ftoast touched on the subject. LED projectors put out the same color lumens as they do standard lumens. This means the colors will be equally as bright as the whites. While you may be able to get some high lumens from the eh515, if the color lumens aren't high enough you'll have a washed out picture with ambient light. This could possible negate the extra lumens, meaning it's possible that you would have to start later than a comparable LED projector with less lumens.

Food for thought.
One pedantic remark...

It's LCD not LED.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hey guys, so I get the lumens discussion in relation to dusk/sunset/etc. But what about the 21ft x 9ft (2.39) area that's being asked to be filled by a 16x9 projector with no lens? I think it's more about that then what time the movie starts. It looks like the Epson 3700 has a good color balance, but if my calculations are correct, asking it to fill 20ft wide (240"), it only provides 7ftl on a 1.1 gain screen.

Also since I didn't rush it and buy a carl's screen and try to put it up before July 4th, I have more time to consider possibilities. Is it a bad idea to try and make a permanent screen setup? I know b curry thinks I'm thinking too much (lol), but it can get pretty windy in my backyard (pond), I feel like I need to put footers in the ground with a rigid screen (which probably doesn't exist at that size, or is a bad idea).

I guess at this point money is not factoring in too much, kind of replacing the budget for the theater in my house to be outside (isn't that better?). I can't get the audio right outside comparatively though (no huge bass/etc).
 

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Hey guys, so I get the lumens discussion in relation to dusk/sunset/etc. But what about the 21ft x 9ft (2.39) area that's being asked to be filled by a 16x9 projector with no lens? I think it's more about that then what time the movie starts. It looks like the Epson 3700 has a good color balance, but if my calculations are correct, asking it to fill 20ft wide (240"), it only provides 7ftl on a 1.1 gain screen.
Yes, that's a reasonable calculation. Adding a lens is not going to make a difference as the fL calculation is a factor of projector output (lumens), screen size or more importantly screen area, and screen gain. Also, keep in mind the affect of changing the Gamma, color balance, and an aging bulb. So, in reality, you will have less as your calculation is based on optimum values. If you want more fL's, brighter screen, you have to change one or more of the three variables. The physics of nature and properties of matter and energy are constant.

If you want a scope screen that size, I'd be looking at a projector that can deliver 5000-7000 lumens as a starting point. If you're planing on 3D, 10,000 would be my starting point. I would also plan on using a lens as the resolution loss at that size maybe less than desirable if you're zooming. Maybe you want to be looking at a 4K machine...

Also since I didn't rush it and buy a carl's screen and try to put it up before July 4th, I have more time to consider possibilities. Is it a bad idea to try and make a permanent screen setup? I know b curry thinks I'm thinking too much (lol), but it can get pretty windy in my backyard (pond), I feel like I need to put footers in the ground with a rigid screen (which probably doesn't exist at that size, or is a bad idea).
A permanent screen would not be out of the question. You would have to answer that question as to any building restrictions in your area for compliance. As I said in my first post and your call to Carl's confirmed, when you get that large wind really starts to become a factor.

I had a summer job while in high school working as a maintenance man for a chain of drive in's in the Ann Arbor area. The screens were a combination of sheet metal and plywood attached to a steel superstructure. There was paint touch up every year and sometimes plywood replacement as it would/could de-laminate from the weather. I would assume you would build using treated lumber and would expect to have similar problems. Certainly you could build a more ridged frame as you suggest with a fabric screen, but you will still have the possibility of the screen oscillating with the wind.

I guess at this point money is not factoring in too much, kind of replacing the budget for the theater in my house to be outside (isn't that better?). I can't get the audio right outside comparatively though (no huge bass/etc).
You've become a bit of a moving target as you started the thread calling out a rush job for the 4th of July and now you're moving your home theater outside. If money is not a factor, just buy a drive in.:)

Seriously, you can do what you want to do, but your going to have to decide what that really is.

We live less than 200 miles apart. We were showing a movie outside last night and were rained out. I guess what I'm saying is that we have a few weeks in the year where watching a movie outside is fun an comfortable The weather here in our area doesn't justify a huge expense for me to have an elaborate out door set up. Any way you slice it, at this time of the year where we live, you're not going to get any kind of reasonably good picture until 9:30 or later. Backyard movies are a lot of fun, but I would never give up our indoor theater for one. YMMV
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Regular screen (meant for outdoors, though).

I'm starting this project, I'm hoping to have it done within a month. By that time it will be too cold to use in Ohio (at night) probably, but at least it will be ready for next year.

The first thing is building an arbor to attach the screen to. I'm planning on using carlofet (carl's place) 9x21ft 2.35 screen.

With the wind/weather, I will be interested to see how easy/difficult it is to put up/take down from a permanent structure.

ELmO
 
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