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Those are room reflections that you've measured.
Look at any data-bass graph of any driver. No driver has such a variance, almost all drivers are dead flat 100hz if not 2-300hz.
I'm not saying the 21 isn't better, but that's not what you have captured/graphed here.
Sure. Which was the point of my measurement. Comparing my original hst’s to the new eminence, in my room. Maybe not the most helpful measurements for this thread, but it means something to me. I changed nothing between the two, just the drivers. And I saw what I wanted. The difference between the two. With all of my subs running, fronts, rears, and nearfield, the response is much better/flatter.
 

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I don't doubt the Eminence woofers, they hit 98.2 dB at 10hz and the Cap S2 hit 98.9. You will not notice the difference. Just remember guys when you think $750 is expensive the LMS 5400 was near $1000 and these have more overall output.
Once you factor in distortion, the LMS beats it in the ULF department. Also K20 vs K10 for power is gonna weaken the mid-bass numbers a bit...
3047364


Also you're comparing a 21 vs an 18, those 3 inches do make a difference. If the LMS was a 21, with a 21-sized magnet and 21-sized coil, it would have probably beaten the Eminence. Not exactly a fair comparison...

The Eminence is significantly cheaper and so it has a better value in 2020.
The LMS has been out of production for many years and cannot be bought at any price.

A better comparison would be an RF-19 or SI-24, the cone sizes are more comparable and it is newer tech / still available.
 

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Box matters too, which one was in their better suited box, that will determine low end sensitivity and distortion. My XXX 18 did terrible with burst in that tiny box. Put it in a large box like the 24 and it would burst much higher.
 

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I appreciate the help guys.
My plan is to take out the 18’s that I have up front, and replace with the 21’s, and keep the two 18’s I have in the back. So I will be mixing the UM’s (back) with the 21’s up front.

Since it’s only five weeks from Black Friday, should I wait until then for hopefully a sale or code?
Oh if you are replacing the UM18’s then for sure get the 6021’s.


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Once you factor in distortion, the LMS beats it in the ULF department. Also K20 vs K10 for power is gonna weaken the mid-bass numbers a bit...
View attachment 3047364

Also you're comparing a 21 vs an 18, those 3 inches do make a difference. If the LMS was a 21, with a 21-sized magnet and 21-sized coil, it would have probably beaten the Eminence. Not exactly a fair comparison...

The Eminence is significantly cheaper and so it has a better value in 2020.
The LMS has been out of production for many years and cannot be bought at any price.

A better comparison would be an RF-19 or SI-24, the cone sizes are more comparable and it is newer tech / still available.
So cone size matters, but it doesn't matter. Good Point
 

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I don't have any experience with the nsw6021, but I believe either will do an excellent job in a music only system.
 

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how about Music 21'' subwoofer which batter LaVoce, B&C, and Eminence
we usage music 100% only
Not many people have compared them back to back in similar alignments with similar calibrations. I expect they'll sound much more alike than different. Remember target frequency response is absolutely huge; eq them to similar frequency responses and differences start disappearing. All of the pro drivers require EQ as a function of their high BL motors. They model almost the same, the Eminence will have more output capability in the extreme bottom end as a function of greater Xmax, they're similar in the midbass. I'd rather spend a little more and get 2 LaVoce's for every 1 Eminence I may have considered, as long as box size isn't a problem 2 LaVoces will beat a single Eminence across the board and present a 4 ohm load if put in parallel, easy to drive, less excursion for a given SPL, less heat, less distortion, (possibly) more placement options.
 

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Not many people have compared them back to back in similar alignments with similar calibrations. I expect they'll sound much more alike than different. Remember target frequency response is absolutely huge; eq them to similar frequency responses and differences start disappearing. All of the pro drivers require EQ as a function of their high BL motors. They model almost the same, the Eminence will have more output capability in the extreme bottom end as a function of greater Xmax, they're similar in the midbass. I'd rather spend a little more and get 2 LaVoce's for every 1 Eminence I may have considered, as long as box size isn't a problem 2 LaVoces will beat a single Eminence across the board and present a 4 ohm load if put in parallel, easy to drive, less excursion for a given SPL, less heat, less distortion, (possibly) more placement options.
i don't use EQ i don't like i prefer Flat frequency response only
i own Kicker Comp 15 8 ohm without use EQ

i wanted Dual sub 21
if 2x LaVoces will beat single Eminence
how about 2x Eminence will over then 2x LaVoces
wanted more SPL to loud
my small room and sit my chair near sub
here my video look my place
 

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2 NSW 6021's will have the same advantage over 2 Lavoce 21 as 1 to 1. But as Chris pointed out, if you're not space limited, then 4 Lavoce 21s will definitely best 2 NSW6021 for a small amount more money.
 

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my room we have 2x corner left and right also have

let say left corner x1 sub and right corner x1 sub
total 2x sub
i cannot 4x sub no space
 

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Also, it needs to be well understood that virtually all of the pro-drivers will need some eq to make them flat. This is a different game than the days of throwing a driver in a box and calling it done. There will be a few guys with great room gain and specific alignments that may do ok but that's going to be a huge huge minority. It's a side effect of the very strong motor. B&C had a great video about TS parameters and touches on this, suggesting that to not add boost to make flat is silly, almost as silly as using a smaller motor driver to go deeper without boost. High BL motors will roll off earlier in a given box size. Grab a drink and watch this vid:

 

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my room we have 2x corner left and right also have

let say left corner x1 sub and right corner x1 sub
total 2x sub
i cannot 4x sub no space
Then get two NSW6021:)
 
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It goes round and round. 4 Lavoce cost $2000. 3 eminence for $2250. Is the $250 worth the extra space.
 

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Well that depends on who you ask. Besides, he says he can only fit two.
 

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As someone who was just about to order 4 LaVoce 21s for the 4 Dev's... You've got me thinking if I should just go for NSWs. Although the NSWs end up costing about double when buying four for me.

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If double the cost of the drivers is not a concern to you, then definitely go for the NSW6021:)
 
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As someone who was just about to order 4 LaVoce 21s for the 4 Dev's... You've got me thinking if I should just go for NSWs. Although the NSWs end up costing about double when buying four for me.

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Also keep in mind I believe the models Red Five used with the NSW were much bigger devastators (BMD/Alpha) and were modeled with 2000W+. Seems like I read if you put an NSW in a standard sized devastator the response would be similar so if you go that route be sure you take advantage of what the NSW has to offer.
 

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My vote goes for two NSW6021. I have two (sealed) and they sound awesome. Even though the mid-bass is very close, the low end is not. Around 3db's difference. They cost more but are worth it, specially when you're using only two. The NSW and Ipal are the best 21" pro-drivers in the market right now.
 
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