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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well folks, I am now planning for the hunt of my next projector.

I am coming from a Sharp XV-S55u, < 200:1 contrast ratio, 640x480, 600 lumens. It has served me well, but I think it is time to upgrade soon.


Seeing what I am coming from, ANY newer LCD projector must be visually better than mine. AND, seeing this DELL deal with the lt150 leads me to believe that a fantastic projector can be had for little money.


I spent a lot of mony on my current projector. $8000 Cdn, 4 years ago. Prices have dropped to a ridiculous level now.


I have decided that I will no longer spend > $6000 Cdn on a projector, due to the questionable HDTV system, great changes in the DLP market (that SCR colour wheel looks really promising), and my keen, yet unfortunate ability to make out rainbow effects on virtually every DLP projector I have seen. Unfortuately, any DLP projector coming out soon wiht the new colour wheels are very expensive. (ie. the Sharp, would be nearly triple my budget limitation, or about $14,000 Cdn.)


So, I have decided that, barring any suprising DLP releases with rgbrgb colour wheels, I will stick to the tried and true LCD technology.


The greatest difference in the projectors available now, other than resolution, is LCD contrast ratio. Some sanyo's claim ratios of 700:1!


I would like to know, based on forum member input, how realistic this number actually is.

I can assume that no matter what it is, it must surely destroy the image on my current projector. Either way, I would like to know.


As for screen door, I am content with my projector now. Content may be a decieving word, because I see it, but it no longer bothers me. From what I can see, it almost appears that there is almost as much fill area as there are pixels http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif So, these XGA units would surely be a vast improvement.


So, I am looking for input about contrast ratio, and any other opinions about the new LCD based projection systems.


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David Mendicino
 

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David,


I was able to watch a PLV-60 for a few hours in a dedicated home theater room. I would say that the contrast ratio is quite good for an LCD projector. I've also watched the Sony 10HT, and while not side by side, I thought the Sanyo was a bit better.


However, the brightness does cause blacks to look grey when you're watching a movie with all the lights out. Granted, its much darker than the bright areas and there is a lot of detail to be seen, it just looks grey next to a black border.


I ended up with an LT150 (pre-dell fervor) and must say that the blacks/contrast appear much better than the Sanyo & Sony. Its also not nearly as bright -- but when watching a movie in complete darkness I found it looked better when the dark areas were as dark as the surroundings. I played with the settings and the Sanyo did improve, but never looked quite the way I wanted.


If you see one, watch "Lost in Space" at the beginning in a *totally* dark room. The black of space looked grey to me. This was on a 1.0gain screen though, so a greyhawk might help.


All in all, if the LT150 and Sanyo were the same price, I may have gone with the Sanyo. I did see a screen door effect, which I think makes it look less film like and more like video, but then again the LT150 has the occasional rainbow.


I'll live with the infrequent rainbows and my $2700 projector for 2 years until the HDTV issues and LCD/DLP flaws get corrected.


-Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the input, Dave.


To be honest, I would love to buy a DLP unit, I just cannot deal with the rainbows. For some, they are occasional, for myself, it is endemic.


About the grey, this is an issue which is inherint in most bulb passed systems. While DLP may be better @ it, or just because your unit is not as bright, both DLP and LCD must remove light from shining on the screen, as opposed to CRT, which can turn light off comletely.


The only way for DLP/LCD to get it completely black would be a complete blockage of light, which transmissive LCD cannot do, and DLP cannot do as well, to a certain degree.


This is the difference between contrast ratio and absolute black level. While you may have an amazing contrast ratio, the black level may be fairly high, hence the grey looking blacks.


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David Mendicino


[This message has been edited by David Mendicino (edited 07-31-2001).]
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by David Mendicino:
To be honest, I would love to buy a DLP unit, I just cannot deal with the rainbows. For some, they are occasional, for myself, it is endemic.
I'm in the same boat David. Almost every dlp I have ever seen has suffered from rainbows so I guess I am one of the unlucky ones who is really susceptible to this phenomenon.


I haven't seen the Sanyo yet (even though my company uses about 100 of them in their conference rooms, talk about a living nightmare for me) but I am hoping the black level is impressive at least for an lcd.


I would have to think that if you are already accustomed to what 200:1 lcd contrast ratio looks like, 700:1 lcd contrast ratio should blow you away, that is if the 2500 lumens doesn't do it first (wow I do love the sound of that) http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
 

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Hi David,


Good luck with your hunt. Have you considered just giving up on the "compromise" of one-chippers completely? With any three-chipper, you won't have to agonize over screen door or rainbow?


For my personal tastes, the one-chippers just aren't there like the three-chippers are. I do agree (lately) that LCD looks better than DLP (colors, saturation, no rainbow...esp. the Sanyos), but even the Sanyos had a screen door that I would put in the "very obvious" category.


Maybe you should look at 3-chippers...of all technologies. It might be the picture you want with none of the compromises.


Just a suggestion.
 

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Make sure you use gray screens with those LCDs. It will definitely improve those blacks!


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
While three chip dlp would obviously solve many of the problems, the price is still inhibitive given the budget.


And as for screen door, Mark, when u are used to there being no screen door, you will find even a little bit of screen door a big deal http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif (joking only out of envy...)


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David Mendicino
 

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Certainly with the Sanyo 21N adequate black level even with a white screen is not a concern. Screen door, however, is a real issue. As long as you can get back far enough like 14+ feet the 21N is a great choice. The picture quality is superb, rich accurate colors with detail that is totally satisfying. I believe with the 21N and the right sourcing you are really seeing all there is to be seen given currently available software. The bonus is you have a 2500 ansi lumen light cannon that is panamorphable.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by milori:

I do agree (lately) that LCD looks better than DLP (colors, saturation, no rainbow...esp. the Sanyos), but even the Sanyos had a screen door that I would put in the "very obvious" category.
I'm trying to decide on a projector too. The trick where you unfocus an LCD projector to hide the screendoor, how well does it work? Is screendoor still an issue if you use that trick?
 

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My screen width is 72" 16:9, seating position is 11 feet from screen. Will screen door be visible from this distance with the XP21N? Will defocusing help?


This topic has been discussed before. Hoping someone can reply.


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Walter
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Walter:
My screen width is 72" 16:9, seating position is 11 feet from screen. Will screen door be visible from this distance with the XP21N? Will defocusing help?
Walter,


It depends on who you are and what bothers you.


If you're like me, then yes it will be visible and distracting. I found the screendoor on the XP21N distracting at about 18' away from my 8' wide screen. It is most visible during bright scenes.


Defocussing helps a lot, but also softens the pictures.


--Les

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by arrow:
Walter,


It depends on who you are and what bothers you.


If you're like me, then yes it will be visible and distracting. I found the screendoor on the XP21N distracting at about 18' away from my 8' wide screen. It is most visible during bright scenes.


Defocussing helps a lot, but also softens the pictures.


--Les

Are you still satisfied with your XP21N? Are you planing to switch to DLP? This will be my first projector purchase. Started considering the Infocus LP340 (DLP), then NEC LT150 (DLP), then Barco Cine 6 (CRT), now the Sanyo XP21N. Just trying to get one that's practical for daily use that's why the XP21N is being considered all the others are not really useable with ambient light or in the day.


In general, how often is the screen door distracting out of all the DVDs you've watched? 1%? 5%? 10%? more?


Thank you for replying.


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Walter
 

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Les:


I'm also getting ready to buy XP21N (actually the Boxlight 38T clone) and I will be pairing it with the Panamorph I already own. Find it interesting that screen door is a problem for you at 18'; most reports indicate it is OK at that distance. How big and bright is the screen you're using? Any comments about the internal electronics of the projector? Still like it?


Dan Houck
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DanHouck:
Make sure you use gray screens with those LCDs. It will definitely improve those blacks!


Dan
I found that the grey screens make the whites look dirty/dingy, so I stayed with my homemade white screen. I would rather have great color than great blacks.

But maybe the dull whites aren't as important to others as the black level is.

 

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HT:


Did you test with the Grayhawk or the much lower gain Da-Lite HC? I read a report over on the screen forum that mirrored your comment but it was talking about the HC.


Dan
 
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