AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have the go ahead from my spouse for a new larger TV.


Current setup is an old RCA 32" curved CRT, 1st gen DirectTivo Sat Receive with S-Video out, Toshiba DVD changer with progressive scan out. My family mostly watches 4:3 standard definition TV from DirectTV. Second is DVDs (1-2 a week). I also have Xbox and PS2.


I'm interested in a 42-46" LCD or DLP based rear projector. Attractive models seem to be the Sony GWIV 42" model, the Samsung 46" models, or the Toshiba 46" model.


The wrinkle is my spouse doesn't like "stretching" video and likes to watch regular TV in the 4:3 mode. I understand this will leave gray bars on the sides of the video.


My question:


Which is going to be better for 4:3 SD in picture quality?

Any longetivity / phospher issues with lots of 4:3 viewing?


HDTV on cable is not available where I live. I may get an over the air antenna for HD sometime later. Eventually I would like to get an HD DirectTivo when they have lots of local channels in HD and cost is reasonable.


Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
LCD and DLP both do not suffer burn in...so 4:3 aspect shouldn't be a problem. However, LCD and DLP are both digital displays meaning they won't do a very good job with standard definition. The picture quality will be less then desired. However, if you sit far enough, then it'll be better.


For SD material, CRTs do the best job...but LCD and DLPs look great with an all digital signal+connection. (DVI or HDMI)


Hopefully, you can accept the black levels of an LCD or the rainbows of a DLP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by xilinx
Hopefully, you can accept the black levels of an LCD or the rainbows of a DLP.
Fortunately, most people do not see rainbows with DLP, but you and your wife certainly need to check out all potential HDTVs in local stores to make the best choice for both of you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Some random thoughts from an HDTV buying family:


With regards to 4:3 material, I would be interested in what you see with the Samsung DLPs. My wife and I checked out numerous DLP TVs in several stores over the weekend, and found many of them displaying curved lines on the edges with 4:3 material. In fact, vertical lines within the videos on the Samsung DLPs were curved, similar to pincushioning on a computer monitor. It annoyed me a great deal.


One reason why we are considering DLP is that our home is fairly bright. Lots of windows with blinds makes it easy for light to come through. Because of that, we eliminated CRT and LCD projection TVs. That leaves DLP projection and plasma TVs for us.


I have seen rainbows once on a DLP projection TV, and it occurred during one of those nature loops they run in the stores. Scene shows a water geyser spraying a lot of water straight up into the air from the ground. I saw the rainbowing in the middle of the gushing water. Salesman claimed that it was an "artifact" of the video, but he wasn't able to explain why the LCD and plasma TVs in the area showing the same loop didn't have the rainbowing.


Michael
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,220 Posts
I would have to point out that DLP & LCoS units have absolutely NO burn-in, and it is not a major concern with LCDs. BUT- it could be a bit of a problem with LCDs that are "abused" - lots of 4x3 watching, many hours. It is possible to do SOME burn in. I wouldn't worry about it or let it drive the decision, but it is a possibility. With plasmas, it's a serious problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by navychop
BUT- it could be a bit of a problem with LCDs that are "abused" - lots of 4x3 watching, many hours. It is possible to do SOME burn in.
Flat panel LCD's, maybe. There is not one instance in a thread on this forum where someone claimed to have burn in problems from watching LCD RPTV, specifically 4x3 material. Dead or frozen pixels would be the only concern.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
LCD tv's cannot burn in no matter what.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,740 Posts
I've read numerous times that Sony does SD better then Sammy. The other way around was that at least Sammy was horrible at SD. I can't speak of other DLPs and SD and think LCDs do a better job.


I'm not sure I';d listen to the "most people do not see rainbows" because there's been no actual survey done. I think it's safe to say "most people may not realize they see then and/or realize their TV is causing their headache. I've seen a ton of people here and at ecoustic all mention rainbows/headaches/eye fatigue so it's more then just a couple of wierdos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,372 Posts
I've read numerous times that Sony does SD better then Sammy. The other way around was that at least Sammy was horrible at SD. I can't speak of other DLPs and SD and think LCDs do a better job.


Don't believe what you think you have read. Go see for yourself. Note that there have also been a huge number of posts saying some SD looks amazing on their Samsung DLP's. Again, don't believe some guys opinion posted on the internet, go see for yourself.


Also - note that any posts that generalizes SD - which covers a vast variety of quality levels - to a single sentence (e.g. SD looks bad/good on this particular technology) shouldn't really be taken seriously.

I've seen a ton of people here and at ecoustic all mention rainbows/headaches/eye fatigue so it's more then just a couple ofb[ wierdos.


A ton? How many? Out of the thousands of DLP buyers on these forum, how many have reported problems? More than a few weirdos? Sure. Lots of people? not really. Yet again, go see for yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
Some random thoughts from an HDTV buying family:


One reason why we are considering DLP is that our home is fairly bright. Lots of windows with blinds makes it easy for light to come through. Because of that, we eliminated CRT and LCD projection TVs. That leaves DLP projection and plasma TVs for us.



Michael
Michael,


LCD RPTV's are inherently bright. Just curious as to how you came to the conclusion that one wouldn't work out for you in a brightly lit room?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by NVboy
Michael,


LCD RPTV's are inherently bright. Just curious as to how you came to the conclusion that one wouldn't work out for you in a brightly lit room?
Unfortunately, that assessment was based on the viewing of a particular LCD RPTV, the Hitachi 50VS810, in a certain store. The reflections on its screen were quite annoying, far worse than the Samsung DLP that was next to it.


Now, having said that, my wife and I had a chance to view a Panasonic PT-50LC14 (LCD) that was next to a Panasonic PT-50DL54 (DLP). No irritating reflections on either screen. So, I would have to amend my statement and say that "some LCD RPTVs" seem susceptible to bright lighting.


BTW, interesting conparison between the PT-50LC14 and the PT-50DL54.


Michael
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann



BTW, interesting conparison between the PT-50LC14 and the PT-50DL54.


Michael
I'd love to here your views on this comparison. These two units are on my short list!


-dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,103 Posts
SD looks great on my Sammy HLN 43" (9' away), better than the 20" CRT in the bedroom. All it takes is some tweaking of the br/ct and color levels to get rid of the noise in the darks and lights. It's not perfect, but it doesn't look bad at all (except for a few really bad shows/channels, which would look bad no matter what). You would think CRTs are perfect, but when you really look close, a lot of channels don't really look that good (especially the local network channels).


It also depends on how close you sit. Personally I wouldn't get anything bigger than a 50" unless I was going to be back about 12-13' or so. Unless of course it would only be for DVD-watching. The closer you sit and the bigger the TV, the more you see the bad stuff.



BTW, I occassionally see rainbows as well (didn't before I read about them here and knew to look for them). They don't bother me one bit. It's hard to watch movies during the day with the lighting in our room (lots of windows), at least movies with a lot of darks, unless you turn up Brightness in the user menu from about 50-55 to 70-75.


The PQ on my Sammy is stunning, and my only complaint is black levels. My next TV will probably be a plasma, unless the internal reflections and contrast ratio get a lot better on DLPs (I think my HLN is at 1000:1, IIRC).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by kjoe
I'd love to here your views on this comparison. These two units are on my short list!


-dave
The 50" Panasonic DLP and LCD were my "finalists". I spent quite a bit of time comparing them on multiple visits to the store. They are very close in picture quality. During most of my decision process I was leaning towards the DLP. After all, that's the newest technology, so it must be better, right? But I couldn't get my eyes to agree.


Most of the time the differences in picture between the 2 sets were so small that I would not have been able to tell you which was which if I hadn't already known. On dark scenes, the DLP picture was slightly better, but the difference wasn't as great as I had expected.


What finally made me change my mind and favor the LCD was that I noticed that the DLP sometimes displayed greenish blotches on faces when watching DVDs. "Greenish blotch" is an overstatement; these were quite subtle. I've read other posts where people talk about a clay-like appearance on skin tones with DLPs; this may have been the same thing, although it didn't really look like clay to me. I never saw this effect when watching an HD source; only with DVDs.


So my choice came down to better skin tones with the LCD vs. better blacks with the DLP. I could have lived with either problem because both were very minor. But in the end I decided to go with the LCD. If I watched more TV and less DVDs, I might have gone the other way. I think either one is a good choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,917 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by cyberbri


It also depends on how close you sit. Personally I wouldn't get anything bigger than a 50" unless I was going to be back about 12-13' or so. Unless of course it would only be for DVD-watching. The closer you sit and the bigger the TV, the more you see the bad stuff.

Just goes to show that everyone has a different take on things. I sit 8'-9' from a 50" and wish I had a 60". Then again, I spend only about 1% of my time watching SD via cable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by kjoe
I'd love to here your views on this comparison. These two units are on my short list!
I would second many of the comments made by bradvoy. These two TVs are more similar than different with HD signals. The store that had both of them was showing an OTA, HD signal for last night's baseball game between St. Louis and Houston. Very colorful on both. I thought that the DLP had the edge in contrast and background detail, while the LCD seemed to have more accurate color control (other than black).


There were no obvious motion artifacts on either, and no rainbowing on the DLP. And despite being in a deserted store late at night (6:45 pm) and both TVs right next to each other, none of us picked up the fan noise.


But, like bradvoy, we (my wife, daughter and I) noticed the green skin tones on the DLP, and it did seem that the skin tones were a bit more "blotchy" with the DLP. The salesman played with the settings for a bit, and he did get the DLP to look much closer to the LCD for skin tones, but I still sensed a bit of green in the DLP.


We were running out of time (store closed at 7:00 pm), and only had time to view a DVD on the LCD (DLP didn't have one hooked up). They played a demo DVD that had scenes from the movie Die Another Day. The DVD player was connected via component cables and set to 480p output. Here's where the LCD faltered for my wife and I.


Like the other LCD TVs we have audition (Mits 52525 & 52725, Hitachi 50V500 & 50VS810), the LCD picture we saw was far less vibrant and colorful compared to the OTA HD signal, almost to the point of being dreary. On our 35" tube TV it's reversed, DVDs look far better than our cable TV.


In addition to the above, we have seen three 50" Samsung DLPs (HL-P5085W, HL-P5063W, HLN5065W) and two 52" Toshiba DLPs (52HM84, 52HMX84). My eye is drawn more to the Panasonic and Toshiba DLPs, except for the issue with too much green in all of them. My wife is drawn slightly towards the LCDs, except she can't stand the flat, almost gray-like colors on DVDs we have seen with them. My daughter has a definite preference, the LCDs. She may be one of those people who have a problem viewing DLPs.


So, no conclusion at this time. I need to research more, especially with regards to neutralizing the green on the DLPs and adding some color "snap" to the LCDs.


Michael
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Can someone confirm that the new line of Sony LCD RP sets can be setup to display an SD or NTSC 4x3 format picture with black (not gray) sidebars?


The GWIII models could definitely be setup to display black sidebars when the 4x3 display format was selected.


I am particularly interested in whether this is a capability of the new 60XS955 model. I need this info to make a final purchase decision and can't access one of these sets to go through a test setup.


Thanks for the help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
I have the 60XS955 and there are no gey bars when watching standard definition cable in 4:3, just black. SD look pretty darn good in my opinion, but to get it to look good I had to run the cable directly from the wall to the tv and not through the HD Digital Cable Set top box. The motorola box I have does not do SD signals very well at all. I will say on another note that some of the HD local channels that I pick up from my internal HD tuner through the cable line do have grey bars on the side, just like some do on digital OTA broadcasts just because that is how they are being broadcasted and I don't think there is anyway to change that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Agreed. I have the 60XS955, too, and the bars are black. Still waiting for digital cable to be upgraded here. Thanks for the info, njv16. I'll keep an eye on the SD signal coming through the HD cable box.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top