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A question for the group: Does anyone know of life specs for LCOS-based PJs? I have just read in a business plan that claims that LCOS (reflective LCDs) devices have
 

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Nearly total BS.


Under worst of conditions, LCD will suffer degradation in as little as 3000 hours. In an HT environment where you give the projector its proper ventilation, you are very unlikely to see this in less than 6,000-10,000 hours or more.


As for LCOS, JVC claims their panels are not subject tot his degradation in spite of TI's study (which included a SINGLE D-ILA unit). So at worst, it would be equivalent to LCD, and at best, not have this problem.


We have many D-ILA units installed that operate 16 hours daily 365 days a year, and many of them have thousands of hours on them, some tens of thousands.


IMO, not an issue for HT at all.


BB
 

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TI trying to sell more DLP chips. Hardly an exhaustive or conclusive study when it comes to D-ILA, which has no organic compounds that can break down.
 

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Drew,


There was a fairly lengthy discussion of this TI sponsored white paper several months back when it was first became publicly availible, and I believe that it was almost a year after it was actually authored. AVS search function should get you to it. Although D-ILA has already been mentioned, it should be noted that Sony's LCOS product (SXRD) is also inorganic, although as far as I know to date, no one has actually gotten their hands on one yet.



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It has never been made clear in any of references to this test that the LCOS unit tested was D-ILA based...it could very well have been a Hitachi based unit which does use organic compounds in the device.


While both LCOS devices, D-ILA and Hitachi's variant are radically different in structure and composition. The Sony SXRD device and D-ILA are essentially identical in structure and composition and should have similar working lifetimes in excess of 100,000 hours.


JVC's D-ILA devices do not use the organic compounds that are subject to the degradation discussed in this test. We have a sizeable number of units in the field that have in excess of 30,000 hours on them and show absolutely no degradation of the optical system. This for devices operating at a nominal 1000 lumen output typical of most HT projectors.


A reference document outlining D-ILA reliability testing can be found on the JVC ILA Technology Center website at www.jvcdig.com in the white papers section.


Regards,


Tom Stites
 

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Tom,


Great to see you back here.


"The Sony SXRD device and D-ILA are essentially identical in structure and composition "


So is Sony's hype about breakthrough technology just a lot of hot air?


Thanks
 

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Tom,


It's really great to see you back. It was also great to meet you and spend some time talking shop at Cedia.


Bryan
 

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Tom,

Glad you could find time to comment.
 

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I'm just pleased to see more of TI's nonsense buried by someone with real information from a competitor.
 

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Welcome back Tom. Thought we drove you off permanently last time ;)


Hope you're here to stay for a while. With Dan and Bob here representing Marantz and InFocus, respectively, it's nice to have a D-ILA guy around to bounce questions off of him.


So the 1080p piece ships when?


;)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
I'm just pleased to see more of TI's nonsense buried by someone with real information from a competitor.
Amen!


Why do we keep seeing this nonsense from Texas Instruments?


Several times now we've had people from Texas Instruments either post outright trash about their

competition - or they've released some study that trashes the competition that turns out to be completely bogus.


I think we should demand some integrity from Texas Instruments.


Let them compete with their competition head to head with their products - and leave the tactics of deceit and

telling lies about the competition to the politicians.
 

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Thanks for the kind words folks...I'll be checking in from time to time.


In TI's defense, there really is nothing bogus about this particular test...the problems with image degradation with transmissive LCD technology and the "other" LCOS technology are well known around the industry. My only complaint is that they used the term LCOS in a general, not a specific sense.


Nice try Thirdkind...I think it highly unlikely that you'd find yourself asking the same question this time next year...


Cheers,


Tom
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by tstites
Nice try Thirdkind...I think it highly unlikely that you'd find yourself asking the same question this time next year...


Cheers,


Tom
:D


I'll be enjoying my SX21 for the time being. When we see 1080p at roughly the same price, I'll make the switch. I'm guessing 2005 for that, which is fine by me. Gives me enough time to save up for the upgrade.
 

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Dr. Gregory: We don't hear it from TI, we hear it from people dredging up the same old tired study. Alas.


And as for this really being a problem with transmissive LCD and other LCOS in general, I guess I'll wait and see, but from what I know there are people who have many, many thousands of hours on their LCD projectors that have not experienced this degradation.


So I still believe it's nonsenses, that the test conditions were invalid, and that it's particularly irrelevant in the home-theater market.


The fact that at least five of the world's largest CE companies sell LCD rear projector models with quoted lamp lives longer than the supposed pre-degradation period of the LCD panels further enchances this belief in my mind.


Mark
 

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Mark -


It is not quite complete nonsense. In my work we install projectors in theme park rides. We use large numbers of D-ILAs and LCDs, as, since the viewers are often in motion, DLP rainbows would be an issue, as well as cheaper DLP having, in general, insufficient brightness/$ to work for us.


We run these PJs pretty hard, and we have seen LCD degradation (not in D-ILAs though). But it has never been in as little as 3000 hours. Some of the worst offenders were in the 5000 hour range, but these were a specific model/brand. In general, it happens after a year or 2, which equates to 6,000-10,000 hours. And it is significant degradation but not nearly severe as what was showing the TI "study" in far less time.


I'd agree with you that it is largely irrelevant to HT though, although there was one member here who said he averaged 10 hours with three on/off cycles a day on a PLV70. I'd wager he may run into this in 3-4 years.


BB
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by tstites
Thanks for the kind words folks...I'll be checking in from time to time.


In TI's defense, there really is nothing bogus about this particular test...the problems with image degradation with transmissive LCD technology and the "other" LCOS technology are well known around the industry. My only complaint is that they used the term LCOS in a general, not a specific sense.


Nice try Thirdkind...I think it highly unlikely that you'd find yourself asking the same question this time next year...


Cheers,


Tom
Tom - good to see you back. Given your past experience with the G150 and HDCP, I'm surprised to see you're offering hints about JVC's future though!


Peter
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Morbius
Amen!


Why do we keep seeing this nonsense from Texas Instruments?


Several times now we've had people from Texas Instruments either post outright trash about their

competition - or they've released some study that trashes the competition that turns out to be completely bogus.


I think we should demand some integrity from Texas Instruments.


Let them compete with their competition head to head with their products - and leave the tactics of deceit and

telling lies about the competition to the politicians.
I'm surprised to see this type of emotional response from you :). As someone in the scientific community you know these types of tests are performed all the time. They can be simultaneously legitimate and biased - which is probably the case with the TI test under discussion here.


Legitimate because it's very likely the test results were accurate and there was nothing unfair whatsoever about the test conditions. Biased because TI may have chosen units for the test that are not indicative of LCD units as a whole and because their press release could lead one to infer more from the study than is deserved.


I think the test was typical corporate PR but to categorize it as "deceit", "lies" and "bogus" is not accurate - as both Tom Stites and Bob Williams of Infocus have indicated the problems mentioned in the TI study are real and known.
 
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