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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am currently looking at laserdisc players and am torn. The CLD-97 is supposed to be one hell of a player, especially tweaked by Kurtis. I've seen the CLD99 and it's great, though it does have some of the "smearing" that made my D704 so unwatchable.


I hear the CLD-97 has a "little" smearing on some LD's, but that it should not be a problem and is the least affected player that shows the problem. Can anyone here comment on that? I am very sensitive to the smearing. This is what it looks like, in a blown up image from a moment of STAR WARS:

http://www.deceptions.net/captures/warssmear2.jpg


Now I hear that the LD-S2 has no smearing at all, but a picture that is inferior to the CLD97, but still better than the D704. Of course, some disagree with that. It's hard to know what the truth is.


So, all you LD fanatics, what do you think? Would a LD-S2 modded with Optical and RF (for AC-3) be the better choice for me? Or should I go for a CLD97 from Kurtis, modded for RF?

Please, no one advise me to buy an LD-X9. That is NOT in the cards. And I do not want an LD-S9 since I have seen some serious smearing on that player as well.


The LD-S2 is one attractive looking player...

http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_...7d5be5/i-1.JPG
 

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Unless I'm mistaken, the LD-S2 is a single-sided player. Do you really want to spend a lot of money on a single-sided player?


The smearing artifact is, in my experience, a product of the interaction between LD player and display. Since moving up to a DLP front projector, the smearing on my LD-S9 has been reduced despite the larger screen size.


Perhaps the way a CRT display projects its image across the screen from left to right somehow exasperates the smearing problem? That is my current working-theory, anyway.
 

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Matt, I'd take the 97. The S2 is smooth and silent and will play most rotted discs but in the end it's not as good as the 97 with good, clean discs. BTW, even the oldest S2's have optical output. Some of the latter ones have factory coaxial and even AC-3 too. They were stille takings orders on S2's in '97. It was a long-lived model, about 10 years. It's hard to say how old a player you're getting with this model, S2?


Josh, who cares if it's a single-sided player when it's this good? You, I suppose!:p I was playing with an S2 recently, not mine... I didn't buy one. I aspire to own that horrible, cheesy, single-sided player the HLD-X0. ;) This was the best U.S. player at one point.


The 97 gets my vote! All-round goodness has it. :)
 

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I've never seen a Kurtis97's so I cannot compare. But the one's listed below are my favroite players. I have either used the ones listed below (for at least a month) or have seen them in action.


Pioneer HLD-X0, HLD-X9, HLD-1000 (Pioneer or Hitachi clone), Sony HIL-C2EX/NU (Panasonic LX-HD20), LD-X1(LD-S2), LD-S9, CLD-959 (CLD-97), Pioneer CLD-HF9G(CLD-99), Kenwood LVD-Z1, Pioneer CLD-R7G.


oh btw hope your JVC dVHS is fixed...
 

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Matt, encouraged by your thread I just finished enjoying Star Wars on my CLD-R7G and there was no smearing whatsoever. My R7G is driving my Mitts 55807 via Iscan V2. I do'nt know how the R7G compares to the 97 or S2 but compared to my 703 it is Superior. Also if it matters I was watching the THX version.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Rachael Bellomy


The 97 gets my vote! All-round goodness has it. :)
If Star Wars is the test disc, then here is how my voting goes:


HLD-X9

LD-V8000

CLD-97


It took me 3 tries to get a mint 8000. The picture is remarkably clean, and much more natural than the 97. Since Matt also owns the Moroder-scored Metropolis, let me say that this laserdisc also looks better on the 8000 than the 97. Since Kurtis can mod just about any deck to add AC-3 RF, the cheapest solution may be the best one, in your case. Now, what would Yoda choose???
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Unless I'm mistaken, the LD-S2 is a single-sided player. Do you really want to spend a lot of money on a single-sided player?
That does not bother me. I'm willing to have single sided playback if there is no smearing. I HATE the smearing effect. My eyes are very sensitive to it and I can see it instantly and cannot un-see it. :(


I'm hoping to have Kurtis record 5 minutes from STAR WARS into an S-VHS tape using the S2 and then the CLD97, so I can judge the difference. SVHS may be inferior, but I can at least see if the smearing on the 97 is viewable to my eyes.
 

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Matt, I've heard reliable reports of smearing on a CLD-97. That probably isn't what you wanted to hear, of course.


I don't know, the LD-S2 is a purty-lookin' beast but I can't imagine it being much of a practical solution. Weren't there problems with chroma delay on this, too, or am I thinking of the CLD-95? It's such an old unit; if it was available through 1997, did they make improvements to the video section over the years? I would personally not invest money on a player designed with only 1990 technology.


Your mileage may vary.
 

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Matt,


I'm sure I can find similar scenes, but for good comparison. at what point would I find the scene used in your example?


No, I don't have a 97 or S2 for comparison, I'd just like to compare some of my own players.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The easiest way to see smear is by popping STAR WARS in and just watching the opening yellow text scrawl. On every CLD-99, LD-S9, CLD-703, and CLD-704 I have seen, the smear from that scene was in your face. Some worse than others, but you should easily be able to see smearing to the right of all the text.


Then when the camera pans down to the planet and moon, the moon will smear. That's the picture I posted.


I can live with a picture that is about as good as my old CLD-D704, give or take a smidge, but minus the smearing. I HATE HATE HATE that smearing. It completely destroys the picture and I am stunned that no reviews in any magazine over the years have ever mentioned the problem.


Also... The current plan is, I hope, to add an Iscan Ultra the new one) which should improve picture quality and provide for proper viewing of letterboxed material on my Widescreen HDTV that forces all 480p signals into ZOOM mode. However, there are reports that scaling for letterboxed transfers is not working correctly, so I am currently awaiting more info on that subject.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
The easiest way to see smear is by popping STAR WARS in and just watching the opening yellow text scrawl. On every CLD-99, LD-S9, CLD-703, and CLD-704 I have seen, the smear from that scene was in your face. Some worse than others, but you should easily be able to see smearing to the right of all the text.
I would add that the smearing occurs only on CLV format discs, so if you're checking the CAV Definitive Collection box set you won't see a problem.


On the CLV Star Wars (THX version), another good point to check is the scene early in the movie where Darth Vader picks the ship's captain up by the neck and demands to know where the Princess is. You should see smearing pretty badly from the rebel captain's head area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I've seen smearing on CAV discs. Just not as bad.
 

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Matt, where have you seen smearing on CAV? I have never seen smearing on a CAV disc, including comparing the same movie with the same video transfer on both a smeary CLV and a CAV side-by-side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It's been a long time since I had my CLD-D704, so I do not remember. Some CAV (or partial CAV) titles I have/had are AKIRA Criterion, ABYSS, LONE WOLF & CUB and THE RAZOR AnimEigo titles, HARD BOILED and THE KILLER.


Now, I could be mistaken. I wonder what the CAV "STAR WARS" Boxed set goes for now? I mean the original series. Not the so called "Special (ruined) Edition."


BY THE WAY: Anyone have any nice quality pictures/scans of the CLD-97, CLD-99 or LD-S2? I want to create some wallpaper using shots of those players. The stuff I found on the Net doing searches is OK, but most are just too damn small.


I can accept up to 3 meg files at [email protected] Thanks :)
 

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The Pioneer Elite with the chroma delay as report by "The Perfect Vision" was the CLD-95 which was Pioneers first real Elite two sided player. This delay was fixed with the CLD-97.


Some of the issue with the smear is dependent on if the TV is set properly adjusted to NTSC standards plus quality of the high voltage power supply in the TV.


The smear doesn't really bother me, the background noise is more annoying to me. The S2 and X9 are the only two decks I've seen that do not smear on my TV. The following I've seen smear, CLD-79/97/99/S9, LD-V4400/8000 and CLD-D703/704. The 97 has the least smear of these by a little, the 8000 that has been mentioned is a very good performer but has more smear than the 97.



Matt: since you claim you've seen smear on CAV LD's also I'm wondering if your Black Level or Brightness and contrast are adjusted too high.


Kurtis
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
It's been a long time since I had my CLD-D704, so I do not remember. Some CAV (or partial CAV) titles I have/had are AKIRA Criterion, ABYSS, LONE WOLF & CUB and THE RAZOR AnimEigo titles, HARD BOILED and THE KILLER.
Unfortunately, the only of those discs I currently own is The Abyss. Was it the Extended Edition box set? Only the last side of that is CAV, so it should be easy enough for me to check tonight.

Quote:
Now, I could be mistaken. I wonder what the CAV "STAR WARS" Boxed set goes for now? I mean the original series. Not the so called "Special (ruined) Edition."
The last I checked, between $100-150. Maybe less depending on when you hit eBay. The set has a history of rot. I had to mix & match the discs from two boxes to get a clean set.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Matt: since you claim you've seen smear on CAV LD's also I'm wondering if your Black Level or Brightness and contrast are adjusted too high.
No, I said I am not sure. It's been a while.


And again, the problem is NOT my TV. My current Panasonic LD player has no smearing, but the picture is noisy as can be. VERY harsh. I took my CLD-D704 and tested it on a dozen different TV's and every single one showed massive smearing.
 

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Matt, I watched Side 4 of The Abyss last night (the only CAV side). Sorry, no smearing at all. This was at 75" and I was watching closely, so I'm pretty sure that if there had been any smear I would have caught it. Do you remember where you saw it? Are you sure it wasn't one of the CLV sides?


Really, I have never seen smearing on a CAV disc. Ever. I'm pretty sure the smearing has to be caused by the way the player reads a CLV disc.


As far as different TVs, I am positive that the TV is not causing the smear, but the type of display does have an effect on its severity, in my experience. Different brands or models of TV don't seem to matter, but CRT displays seem to bring it out more, perhaps as an artifact of the way the CRT beam scans the image across the screen from left to right. Just a theory.


Smearing is not eliminated on my current DLP display, but it is not nearly as severe as it was on my last TV and rarely distracts me anymore unless I am looking for it. That doesn't help you much, I realize, but hopefully it is another data point that can help us get to the cause of this problem eventually.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I've seen it on Tube and RP TV's. Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, Phillips, JVC, Mtisubishi, Pioneer brands.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Stevens
I've seen it on Tube and RP TV's.
Direct-view tubes and RPTVs are still both CRT.
 
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