AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


Got a Pioneer CLD-R7G to have some fun last night. Haven't done a LD player vs for a LONG time! :)

http://lion.telhope.com/~lion/temp/r7g-x9.jpg


Test setup: both R7G and X9 use S-video (same type/brand of cable) to a iScan Plus v1 to a Sony G70 CRT projector to a Stewart screen.


After tweaking the R7G control, so far the best setting is at:


YNR: Min (off), CNR: Max, 3D Y/C: mid-point, Sharp: Min (off)


On good quality LDs, the R7G looks every bit as good as the X9. The R7G seems has a bit higher resolution while the X9 has a slightly richer color.


On average to poor LDs, the X9 still has better control in noise reduction for a smoother and clearer picture. The R7G also gives a very nice picture. At least 80-90% performance of the X9.


One area the R7G performs MUCH better than the X9 is reduction of "dot crawl" artifact. Such "checkerboard" type dot crawl artifact is mostly visible in motion scene around objects edge especially around Red color. The X9 has quite a bit of these problem just like my S9. The artifact is much reduced on the R7G.


Well, that's a test with the LAST LD player from Pioneer released in Oct. 1997 in Japan. Pioneer still has a page on it's website at:

http://www.pioneer.co.jp/ld/newpro-R7G/CLD-R7G.html


Later I'll test it against my LD-S9.


regards,


Li On
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Hi Li On,


Nice photo! Looks more like a small X9 than a junior S9. With that good a picture, who knows... ;)


Cheers,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,420 Posts
Darn Japanese fonts! Oh well, thats kinda cool. So where did the model fit in the line up in relation to the S9 and X9?


If you do some more testing, let us know how it compares to the S9 and X9 and the Japanese version of the 99 (can't remember the model # though. Is that what the R7G is?). So far it sounds comparable to the X9? Better than the S9? I guess the R7G is not made any more though, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
Last Pioneer "full" lineup (circa 1999) was:


CLD-R5

CLD-R7G

LD-S9

HLD-X9


The R7G is now discontinued.


The first letter before LD denotes capacity to play something else than LDs, either CDs or Muse Hi-Vision discs.


The G at the end is for "LD-G graphics", the R5 does not have this capacity, but in all logic the S9 should have been called LD-S9G.


Nicolas
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,420 Posts
Is the R7G otherwise better than the R5? How do they compare to the CLD-99??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi,


I've some inital result of the R7G vs my S9. I don't know if I shall post my finding before I sold the S9! The S9 still has it's strong point though. Need to do more testing and thinking...


regards,


Li On
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
Quick comparison of CLD-R5, CLD-R7G, and LD-S9:


Specs:

video S/N: 50, 51, 52 dB

digital audio S/N: 105, 115, 117 dB

dynamic range: 92, 96, 99 dB

weight: 6.4, 6.9, 10.2 kg

consumption: 26, 30, 38 W


Why is the 7 so light compared to the 9 ? I think the turntable and optics of the 9 are superior and heavier. The 7 seems to share the circuitry of the 9, though (or some further iteration), while the 5 is clearly an entry-level model.


This is purely from catalogs. I'll leave it to others to compare them in real life.


Nicolas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Hi Li On,


I'm sure you're smack on with all your observations regarding image quality and these players' respective strongpoints. I mean no disrespect towards a forum friend who has pushed the HT quest to new heights.


However, at the risk of throwing a monkey wrench into the comparisons, I will propose a hypothesis which could possibly account for some of the disparities in the better Japanese LD players which are hard to separate in performance.


May I venture to suggest that at least a part of the image quality of a specific player can be attributed to its tracking and focusing ability - something which not only varies from one model design to another, but also in time with the handling of each unit and wear on its laserhead. This does not mean that the 2D/3D comb filter isn't also for much of the quality, but if you compare these players' composite output, this could be a major tell-tale factor, and using the S-VHS output to compare does much to give an idea fo the final quality we can access with each player, it does not distinguish between their tracking ability and original signal quality, and what their comb filters can add to this.


To support this, replacing my X9's laserhead gave a much improved image quality, versus the still operating former diode. The S9's picture, with a practically NEW unit (both by the sellers statement, and by a spontaneous unsollicited appraisal by my repair tech) had its own set of qualities. I'll also see soon how a brand new laserhead fitted to the XO puts it into possibly another league of its own?


From what I've been told, these players use laser diodes which must be adjusted close to a few microns in alignment - and due to this my XO died belatedly, after several months of use, of diode misalignment. This was probably due to shipping: I received it with the drawer's metal guide rails bent, at which time it probably shook the XO's massive laserhead enough to throw off this alignment. No way to change coils without opening the laserhead, meaning without destroying it. That is also why laserheads can't be repaired by anyone who doesn't have a $200k+ specialised alignment tool which is basically a roomful of equipment.


By this token, I would recommend against too much playing around with fast forward, reverse, chapter seeking, frame freezes, etc. These will all sollicit your coil and shorten proportionally the lifespan of the laserhead. From now on I'll just pop in the LD and press Play. And I'll keep to a minimum any future comparative screenshots or video stream captures from these players. The price to pay for pressing on those remote buttons can be quite a sting. :eek:


I imagine that a "perfect shootout would be operated with all new players, or by having each unit evaluated go through a Pioneer factory verification or rebuild. Only that way would we know that each is performing at original spec. This being both practically impossibleand financially undesirable, it seems likely that a shootout would be best operated either in Japan, or in your location: most of your units were originally sold in HK, meaning gentle shipping in the large volume bulk surface transport used by mainstream retailers, sparing their fragile electronics and mechanics more than the horrific air transport I've encountered with 3 separate carriers. :(


Also, could it be that the CLD-R7G you are comparing to your LD-S9 is a much fresher unit, with little if any wear on its diode coil, the component in the laserhead which has to be in tip top shape to ensure proper tracking and focus of the laser beam.


I do have one question about the CLD-R7G: how does its analogue audio out compare to that of the LD-S9?


Last night, after less than 5 minutes of watching a movie on the S9, I had to move it out of the bedroom and install the X9 in its place - the ear-breaking soundtrack on the S9 (not the digital output, just analogue to preamp) became a fun and rocking rythme on the X9 that had me bopping. :cool: To bad the XO wasn't around or I would have chanced a hernia for analogue sound that would have had me standing up and dancing!


Cheers,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Brett
Also, could it be that the CLD-R7G you are comparing to your LD-S9 is a much fresher unit, with little if any wear on its diode coil, the component in the laserhead which has to be in tip top shape to ensure proper tracking and focus of the laser beam.


I do have one question about the CLD-R7G: how does its analogue audio out compare to that of the LD-S9?
Hi Brett,


Thanks for the LONG post! :)


Since LD data is stored in analog RF format, I guess the alignment/power of the laserhead should affect the picture.


You know, many OLD laserdiscs has some dropout (white snow/spark artifact). The R7G has the same (or slightly more) dropout as the S9 on bad discs. The X9 usually has much less dropout with it's MUSE LD laser pickup. From the dropout level, I guess there is no big difference in the R7G and my S9 laserhead condition.


Last night I watch the R7G for 4 hours with many LD clips. The picture was beautiful. Tonight I'll try to match the S9 for the picture!


I'd only used digital optical on the R7G to my surround processor Sony E9000ES. The sound quality is as good as the S9 digital optical. Actually I think the R7G sounds slightly better! The R7G has no coaxial digital however.


It's GREAT to see a different LD picture, in the new millennium! :)


regards,


Li On
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,011 Posts
Li On, the R7G sure is a pur-rdy little player. I would think it would be hard pressed to keep up with the X9. When watching an older film on my X9, like say, SINK THE BISMARCK or INHERIT THE WIND, 50's, 60's stuff, or older. Anyway, if I don't like the sound of the digital track and switch to the player's analog outputs, well, the X9 delivers! My Marantz pre let's the analog inputs go through untouched. The X9 rules there. Brett is totally spoil't! To hear him complain about the X0 vs. the X9! Bah humbug! not! Lucky U Brett!


If I had me a little ole' R7G it would be on my bedroom set. Wasn't the model above the R7G the R9G? or something close to that? Will you obtain one of those next? I've seen 2 on e-bay in the past year. Best wishes!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Rachael Bellomy
The X9 rules there. Brett is totally spoil't! To hear him complain about the X0 vs. the X9! Bah humbug! not! Lucky U Brett!


If I had me a little ole' R7G it would be on my bedroom set. Wasn't the model above the R7G the R9G? or something close to that? Will you obtain one of those next? I've seen 2 on e-bay in the past year. Best wishes!
I never like the X0! If I must use the composite video out, I'll check the X1.


The R7G is the last LD player from Pioneer. Shame on Pioneer for not release a even better R9G! :)


There is a old player call H9G or some sort. It's a Japanese model of US Elite CLD-99. Of course it's no match for all those players in our discussion.


regards,


Li On
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,524 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Rachael Bellomy
Li On, the R7G sure is a pur-rdy little player. I would think it would be hard pressed to keep up with the X9. When watching an older film on my X9, like say, SINK THE BISMARCK or INHERIT THE WIND, 50's, 60's stuff, or older. Anyway, if I don't like the sound of the digital track and switch to the player's analog outputs, well, the X9 delivers! My Marantz pre let's the analog inputs go through untouched. The X9 rules there. Brett is totally spoil't! To hear him complain about the X0 vs. the X9! Bah humbug! not! Lucky U Brett!


If I had me a little ole' R7G it would be on my bedroom set. Wasn't the model above the R7G the R9G? or something close to that? Will you obtain one of those next? I've seen 2 on e-bay in the past year. Best wishes!
Hi Rachael!


Well, now that you have used and seen the X9 in action over a period of time how does it compare to the S9?

I'm thinking about getting a S9 soon, but I probably must buy a new tv again. The Philips (32PW9616) I have don't have a good s-video input at all, or it must be checked by a repair men. I get a very noisy picture, I had nothing like this on my Sony 32KV-75FQ.


I have also sent out Rob on this forum to search for a R7G and R5 for some friends of mine, but maybe a will get a R7G for myself, I'm a crazy ld-dude :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,011 Posts
Hey Li On, what kind of anti-resonance damping device is zat on your amp:p? How well does it work?


NIN, on clean, perfect discs the S9 is awfully similar to the X9. The X9 is amazing on worn, scuffed, rotted, or otherwise screwed up platters. The X9's analog outputs are darn impressive, as noted... The D-ext is awfully convient to make sure you're pretty well adjusted for U.S. LDs.


I like the X9 controls better. I like the last memory feature. I have a few Japanese LDs where having LD-Graphics is helpful. The S9's S-Video out is much better than it's composite out with my stuff, anyway. You need a display with righteous accomidations for it's S-Video signal. The S9 looks great on analog sets. It's equally at home on my new HDTV monitor too.


I think I'd pick up an S9 while you can stille get them brand new. It's a great player. Get them while they're hot... :D...step right up... Best wishes from Laserland!
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top