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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I haven't posted in a few days because I needed to put my SDI player through some tests. This isn't an SDI review but, all I can say is that it is the best picture I have ever seen from any DVD player. It is not HD and won't make a DVD look like HD but, it looks very clean and detailed with no noise whatsoever.


This update is for the Leeza. I have some news and comments I want to publicize and get some feedback on.


The Leeza has a minor bug. In my unit and supposedly all units, when you change the settings for any input, those settings change on all of the inputs. For example, if you bump the contrast to "25" on input 1, all of the other inputs also change to 25. This has been brought to KD's attention and it is a simple fix.


Key Digital "forgot" to add the 1366x768 rate on the menu. They have it already configured and ready to download in a soon to be released software upgrade via the net. It was an oversight and will be included in future shipments. By the way, to all Leeza owners: did you notice that a 50 foot RS232 cable came with your unit? You should, it is for connection to the net for software downloads like this one and the "input" fix. So much for "is it possible".


On the Pro 1000: when connecting 2 sources, say DVI and dsub15, outputting an HD signal through the Leeza will cause the Pro to lock on to the HD signal regardless of what input you are on. For example, you are watching cable through DVI on input 5, you switch the Leeza to HD. The PRO will automatically dump the DVI signal and preference the HD signal,no need to switch inputs on the plasma. However, once it locks onto the signal you cannot change inputs as long as it senses HD. If it senses HD on input 4, you cannot then override the input and watch input 1. The only way out is to "break" the HD signal by turning it off or switching inputs on the Leeza to non HD.


I am working with KD to get an extra faceplate to modify and improve the cosmetics of the unit. I am going to try and find a local metal engraver to make the front panel briushed aluminum and engrave the inputs rather than silkscreen them on. I will keep you up to date and show photos when it is finished.


Still frustrated by the lack of a power on and power off remote code so, its get up to turn on and get up to turn off. If the FAN NOISE wasn't so loud, I would leave the unit on 24/7 but, that is not an option. I will keep on them for an improvement.
 

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some fodder re leeza and the pio Pro1000:


1. 720 vs 768: same findings as doody; 768 is a noticable improvement in terms of sharpness and overall pq.

with the Leeza set to 1:1.78 anamorphic; i had exactly round circles using the Avia widescreen resolution pattern; 6.75mhz was sharp.

I did notice the following: when the pio is in dot by dot, you cannot set the color temp; when viewing a grey scale ramp, there is an obvious and non-uniform color tint. i set the Leeza Red color balance down to compensate for the overall warmness, but the set will definitely require grey scale adjustment. When I was using direct feed (no Leeza), i had to set the pio color temp to middle high.

2. de-interlacing is excellent, using railing torture scenes in gladiator, for example;

3. 60hz vs 72hz vertical refresh: i am going with 60hz: i found a slightly perceptible banding effect in solid color areas using 72hz, both on the s-video sat and dvd component; otherwise i couldn't see much difference. more experimenting to come.

4. Y/C delay: using avia test pattern, spot on 0.00, each color; toy story lid has very little if no smearing or streaking; i saw no edge smearing with any of the warning labels (both in contrast to the Faroudja);

5. using the avia test pattern, gamma readings are 1.6 with 1280x768, 2.1 with 1280x720, but i'm not sure what to make of this; by adjusting C and B, I could get an excellent picture with 768.

6. settings: Using avia black bars and grey scale: for dvd/component: B=43, C=140, sat=165, Red=165, Blue=165; for dvd/S-video: B=17,C=142. after adjusting for warm tones: Sat=150, Red=135, Blue =165.

as a side note, I found that the Leeza does not retain these settings per input, so I have to re-set B when going between Leeza inputs 1 (as my s-video) and Leeza input 2 (as my dvd/component). (Just saw eric's note on this as well!)


7. side note: i found that the weave pattern I had noticed before only with the s-video feed could be eliminated completely by bypassing the s-video switcher in my AVP processor and plugging the DTC-100 s-video directly into the Leeza. It wan't a Leeza problem; this was also tried when i had the rock, but didn't fix the problem)


Conclusions:


Get the grey scale ISF done; ( a pioneer service menu adjustment)

Find out why Leeza doesn't retain settings per input;

find a way to reduce the fan noise;

I'm now only using the AVP for audio switching and audio d/a and dolby decoding,

stick to 1280x768 60hz


still to come: the dvi hookup; i'm waiting for the card; DVD sdi; also waiting. for both of these setups, ericbee has the rig.
 

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Ericbee,


sounds like what's needed is an option that tells LEEZA:

1. If using normal inputs, enable/disable DVI input.

2. When using normal inputs, enable/disable HD output...


This could allow you to use DVI and HD with the Pio's auto sensing.


Question is, can the LEEZA turn off DVI or D15 in hardware.


If not, it's a moot point.


As always, Jlm & Ericbee - your info is invaluable.
 

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small point:


it's a ***** getting at those close packed bnc's if they are surrounded by populated connectors.
 

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John- there is a neat BNC installation tool on the market-it looks like a screwdriver but has a sleeve that grabs the knurled barrel of the connector- it is open so the end of the tool goes over the cable- cost $8.00 (Milestek has them)
 

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sounds like KeyDigital may want to include a free one with every purchase :)


I remember trying to hook a tight fitting BNCs on the bottom of my plasma. It was a tight squeeze and it took me over 2 hours (!!!) to hook up the 3 stupid YPbPr cables to the plasma.


Turned out that the BNC connectors on my cable weren't properly made and that the tracks (where the male BNC pin is supposed to travel) were a bit too thin - which is what made it so difficult.
 

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This is a very cool thread to watch, thanks for doing the legwork.


ericbee - I am surprised that the unit has such a noise fan. This is not a terribly hard thing to remedy unless there is something unique (size, mounting, CFM) about the LEEZA. Your thoughts?


jlm - grayscale is everything. Have you looked at your Pioneer enough to sense if it is terribly out of whack or do you just assume it is and needs to be cal'd? I am personally frustrated at the lack of a Service maual for my Fuji 5002 to do this same calibration. Everything is on hold until I can nail grayscale.


regards,


patrick
 

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patrick:


eric and I are going to solve the fan noise; no question about it.


regarding grey scale, it is definitely off; best seen by putting up the 10-100 IRE steps from avia. the only real way to fix it is via the service menu and some sort of temp measuring device. I agree, it is of paramount importance. I'm basically going to wait until my rig is complete with dvi and sdi, then go hog wild with calibration. I used Gary Merson before with my rptv and will go for him again. I thinlk eric has the same opinion. right now i'm still waiting for the dvi card and sdi mod to show up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Some other tidbits:


The channel up and down buttons on the front panel of the Leeza serve no purpose and never will. They were originally supposed to serve some function but, have since been eliminated from the production but, were left in place because the design and face plate had already been established. If and when John and I make new faceplates, I will remove the buttons and leave no hole for them in the faceplate.


Within the next two weeks our first software upgrade will occur. We will be able to log onto the website and download an upgrade fix. This upgrade will allow for settings to stay in memory on all inputs. It may add the 1366x768 rate, but I am not certain. It will also address several "bugs" that have been uncovered by Key Digital but, I am uncertain as to what they are.


By the time my new faceplate is finished, I will have accumulated enough information on fans and db's and will remove the channel buttons, change the fans and the faceplate all in one sitting. Still hoping Key will have solve the problem themselves but, I am taking no chances and will look into replacement fans at my expense.
 

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>>The channel up and down buttons on the front panel of the Leeza serve no purpose and never will. They were originally supposed to serve some function but, have since been eliminated from the production but, were left in place because the design and face plate had already been established. If and when John and I make new faceplates, I will remove the buttons and leave no hole for them in the faceplate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
CClear: It would have been nice to have "hard" buttons that could control the inputs, unfortunately they do not and according to Mike, they cannot because they are not linked to the hardware/software.


I am in the process of looking into replacement fans and Mark Rubin just emailed me to let me know that his business involves noise reduction and fans so, I am moving forward. When I find out what needs to be done, I will post back. Opening the unit and swapping out fans seems fairly straightforward but, we shall see what the solution is.
 

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Eric. There is no issue re "is it possible". Yes, software fixes and upgrades are "possible". However, it is my understanding that under the software licenses or agreements only fixes are allowed, software upgrades over the net are not "allowed." No one from Key has posted anything saying this statement is not true. You very much want it to be false, but to my knowledge it is true. The Leeza is a great processor amd gives high value for the price and Key is a great company. However, buyers should not make a buying decision under the false assumption that Key will be making software upgrades available over the net. Of course legal instruments can be changed, and if so, upgrades are "possible". Who knows what the future will bring. Just do not bank on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mark, first off, re-read my post, it clearly says that the download is a "download fix" to fix a variety of bugs. Just out of curiosity, what software "upgrades" has TAW offered for their ROCK that weren't related to fixing a particular bug or issue with the operating system?
 

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Sounds like the Leeza is a great unit--congrats Eric!


Hope you solve the loud fan problem. I know Panasonic makes some great low-noise fans that I used when building my computer. They are called the PanaFlo line. You can get them most anywhere, but here's a site that sells a variety of them: http://www.tweakbox.com/fans.html Also, you can always wire a resistor onto the power lead to slow the fan down, but I'm not sure what that will do to the internal temperature of the Leeza.


As for the Rock/Rock+, among some software features that were added since I purchased the original Rock:


1. Vertical Chroma Adjustment

2. ClearMatrix de-interlacing

3. Variable Zoom

4. Full-screen zoom modes (13:9, 14:9 and 15:9)

5. Horizontal and vertical image positioning adjustment

6. Custom timings and resolutions


A lot of these changes are documented in their firmware download page here: http://tawinc.net/download/


There is at least one new upcoming feature in the next firmware release--memorization of aspect ratio and various other settings per input.
 

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Eric. This is not an issue of one versa the other. Isell and respect both. I happen to own a Rock Plus myself and one of the reasons I choose it was because of the possibilty of getting better algorithyns, additional features like chroma adjustment etc., as they are developed. My first Rock didn't have clear matrix. That was a soft improvement, not a fix. That however is not the point. They are both great units with different features and future potentials. I will sell many Leezas. My only point is that it is not the same as buying a Rock. It has lots of inputs and outputs for those who need them The Rock only has 1 S, 1 YUV, and one composite. Additiobal inputs may be availanle in the future. All I am saying the units are the same in many ways but different in others. In some ways one is better, in others the other is better. Being a true processor nerd, I like the upgrade path offfered by TAW for myself. From what I understand, purchasing a Leeza would not provide me with that. Thats all. You are doing all here on this forum a great service. Keep up the good work and thanks.
 

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Mark H,


The firmware update issue was covered in another thread, where you already pissed off Michael from Key Digital (I haven't seen Michael angry prior to that posting, or since then).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=3


KeyDigital has posted no policies regarding software update, since they do not want to commit to any schedule or make any promises regarding updates that they may not be able to keep.


Just as TAW does not make any promises regarding future updates, containing new features or updates - KeyDigital will do the same.


If they add new features, great. If not, it's a great unit already. This is EXACTLY the same stance that Phil at TAW is taking, so I don't see the problem here.


Unless Phil, Mark R., Mike or Michael post otherwise - lets leave this issue alone!


BTW, Mark H., you said you were going to start selling LEEZAs - are you a KeyDigital distributor?
 

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for the record, Mark, once and for all: this is a quote directly from the "KEY BENEFITS" section of the Leeza manual:

"Firmware upgradeable through the internet".


now if you can produce contradictory evidence, we have something to discuss; otherwise, your comments have shown no basis.
 
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