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I am excited about a new crop of rear-projections sets coming this year that are equiped with HDMI 1.3. Suppossedly there will be some nice picture quality improvements (and sound also). I think I heard the new Sony SXRD sets coming out later this year will have HDMI 1.3. If anyone has info on this and other manufacturer sets with HDMI 1.3 please post here. Thanks.
 

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I'm still wondering what HDMI 1.3 offers that older HDMI versions didn't.


Can anyone explain this for me?


I know 1.3 is needed to decode next-gen audio like Dolby True HD and the like....but you don't neccessarily need your T.V. to do 1.3 for sound. You can just connect your video source (HD-DVD player) straight to your A/V receiver (when they're out) and have the reciever output the sound for you. From the little I've come to understand....HDMI 1.3 is imperative to have for other than sound.


Does it really influence the PQ all that much?
 

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Sony didn't really announce anything new at CES, we'll get more info at their Sony show.


Samsung announced their pro line of tv's will come with v1.3 but I read that the sets may not take advantage of 1.3s increased bit depth
 

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There is an article in Feb 2007 Home Theater mag, HDMI 1.3 features xvYCC and Deep Color. xvYCC expands overall color and Deep Color increases bit depth for each color component. More shades of color should decrease artifacts like color banding and increase color fidelity. However, tv studios must have cameras that can output this format. Game systems, camcorders and hi-def players should have this capability in the future.
 

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HDMI 1.3 allows for some interesting potential features. The standard does not require that all of the features be included in a product claiming HDMI 1.3 compatibility however, so buyers need to be careful.


HDMI 1.3 allows for:
  • Greater Bandwidth- It more than doubles the bandwidth that can be passed through the interface (from 4.95 Gigabits per second to 10.2 Gps) allowing more data to pass. It will support up to 1440p through a single connection. Since current consumer displays don't exceed 1080p, this feature won't increase the resolution of a 1080p display over earlier versions of HDMI.
  • Deep Color- Current formats support up to 8 bit color. "Deep color" will allow 10, 12, and 16 bit color depths. This features allows compatible displays to show billions of colors rather than the current millions of colors. "Billions" of colors is more than the eye can see. Some people pooh-pooh this feature as useless (since it's more than you can see), but you want your display to show more colors than you can see. If you can see differences between colors you will see color banding in scenes with subtle color gradations- like skies. Deep color is claimed to eliminate color banding where it's used. Deep color also supposedly allows for greater contrast ratios. Whether the upcoming display technologies will allow for greater contrast is a good question. Sony's PS3 Blu-ray player/game console and Toshiba's HD-XA2 standalone HD-DVD player both support HDMI 1.3 with deep color. The caveat here is that there's currently no content that supports deep color. Games will likely be the first source to support deep color, but movies on disc seem to be another matter. Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs currently support only 8 bit color. Toshiba seems to be betting that HD-DVD discs with deep color will be available at some point, but that's far from a given. Sony controls content from production (Sony Pictures), to disc manufacture (for Blu-ray), to display, and they're pushing HDMI 1.3/deep color/broader color space so they might jump onboard with some compatible content, but it's a gamble whether they will or not. Downloadable movies might support deep color and broader color space at some point in the future, but that's still vaporware. Some people claim that a source or display that allow for deep color will allow for finer calibration (and accuracy) even for 8 bit content, but I have no idea if this is true.
  • Broader Color Space- HDMI 1.3 supports the xvYCC color space (as opposed to RGB/YCbCr) that allows for 1.8 times as many colors as earlier color models. The hype says that this feature will allow more accurate and vivid colors to be displayed on compatible systems. Sony has announced HD camcorders for consumers that support xvYCC (Sony calls it xv.color), but who knows who else will join them, what content will be available, and when it might happen? It might turn out to be great. It might not be used.
  • Auto A/V Lip Sync- Some displays don't process video signals as fast as the A/V receiver in the surround system processes the audio causing the picture to lag behind the sound- like a poorly dubbed movie. Some current receivers have manual modes so you can adjust the lag yourself, but HDMI 1.3 allows for compatible HDMI 1.3 receivers and displays to automatically sync the sound and picture. The "buzz" says this is likely to be a popular feature that consumers will look for and therefore manufacturers will want to supply, but I haven't seen any "auto lip sync" products announced yet, and some argue about how helpful the feature will be.
  • New Lossless Audio Formats- HDMI 1.3 will allow the new Dolby-TrueHD and DTS-HD lossless audio formats to pass over the connection. A cool feature, but maybe unnecessary. Best I can tell, Blu-ray and HD-DVD players that are available now (and likely to be available in the future) decode the lossless audio in the player and can send it to any compatible reciever as PCM over earlier HDMI versions- so the HDMI 1.3 connection is unnecessary. Apparently some say Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs are (or will be) authored so that the lossless audio has to be decoded in the player and can't be processed in the receiver, so HDMI 1.3 wouldn't help for those discs. It's possible that other future content (e.g. downloadable movies) will allow or require processing of the lossless audio in a receiver through HDMI 1.3, but who knows?
  • New Mini Connector- HDMI 1.3 allows for a smaller connector on portable devices like camcorders- kinda like you see with USB.


IMHO, HDMI 1.3 allows for some exciting potential features, but it's still up in the air whether manufacturers will incorporate the features made possible by HDMI 1.3 in their products, how much content will be available to take advantage of those features, and how much real difference the features will make. I think it would be nice if next generation products would embrace HDMI 1.3, but there are other maybe more important features to look for in the near future (24fps input support with a refresh rate some multiple of 24 to eliminate judder, better PC input support, etc., etc.) You can bet that products with HDMI versions earlier than 1.3 won't take advantage of HDMI 1.3's features (except for lossless audio as mentioned above), but it's not certain that even HDMI 1.3 products will use the features. Caveat emptor.


Just my $0.02,


kelpie
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjerina /forum/post/0


I am excited about a new crop of rear-projections sets coming this year that are equiped with HDMI 1.3. Suppossedly there will be some nice picture quality improvements (and sound also). I think I heard the new Sony SXRD sets coming out later this year will have HDMI 1.3. If anyone has info on this and other manufacturer sets with HDMI 1.3 please post here. Thanks.

Here is a good article that explains why you should not get too excited.

HDMI 1.3
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelpie /forum/post/0


HDMI 1.3 allows for some interesting potential features.

For anyone who is "excited" about HDMI 1.3 for this year's TV sets keep in mind the key word in Kelpie's post. That key word is ALLOWS not PROVIDES.
 

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I'm sure by the time manufacters begin to commonly use 1.3, version 1.4 will be available, and we'll be having this conversation all over again.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turansformer /forum/post/0


I'm sure by the time manufacters begin to commonly use 1.3, version 1.4 will be available, and we'll be having this conversation all over again.

You have a good point, of course, but it might be a very different conversation depending on what HDMI 1.4 has to offer.


For example, the orginal HDMI 1.0 described the connector, set the maximum data transfer rate at 4.95 Gbs, allowed for 1080p/60 compatibility, and allowed for 8 channel 24 bit audio. Pretty cool stuff, but from what I understand it apparently didn't support DVD audio. If all of the early equipment had handled HDCP copy protection well, it would have been better, but all-in-all HDMI 1.0 would not have been that important to me.


HDMI 1.1 added support for DVD audio- which would be a "must have" for me. I would have waited for HDMI 1.1 if it was "just around the corner".


HDMI 1.2 added support for SACD's, added type 2 connectors for PC's, added color support for PC's, and added support for low voltage sources. HDMI 1.2(a) added Consumer Electronic Control features. Some people might use these things, but I'd bet that not nearly as many found benefit from HDMI 1.2 as were helped by 1.1. HDMI 1.2 would have added NOTHING that I needed, so I sure wouldn't have waited for it. HDMI 1.4 might be a leap forward like HDMI 1.1 (or like 1.3 could turn out to be), or it could be another baby step like 1.2 would have been for me (YMMV).
 

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I just pre-ordered a new Sony camcorder (HDR-HC7 High Definition, HDV) which records in the new "x.v.Color" colorspace. I'm going to hold out for one of Sony's new LCD HDTVs that will support the same thing.

So, home videos will at least be fun.
 

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Daniel, wow - Sony sure does release new HDV camcorders often! You happen to know whether this camcorder is still 1080i as the others or is this 1080p? The increased megapixel rating on the CMOS tells me it's capable of 1080p but I didn't think MiniDV could support 1080p.


I wanted to applaud Kelpie's post - it was truly an informative one and one that makes AVS such a nice website to visit.
 

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Squawks,

The HDR-HC7 records in 1080i if you record in HDV. (You can record in either Standard Definition (SD) or HDV; in either case, to MiniDV tape.)


If you want 1080p, you're still looking at something like this:

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/HVX200/


Way out of my budget range, I can tell you! It's gonna be awhile before 1080p filters its way down to consumer camcorders.
 

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Received the camcorder today (still waiting on my tape shipment).


From the HDR-HC7 manual:


"Set [X.V.COLOR] to [ON] only when the recorded content will be played back on an x.v.Color-compliant TV. Otherwise, set to [OFF] (the default setting).

If the movie recorded with this function [ON] is played back on a non-x.v.Color-compliant TV, the color may not be reproduced correctly.

[X.V.COLOR] cannot be set to [ON] when:

- Recording in DV format

- A movie is being recorded."
 

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At this point people like me who just bought a new HDTV at least don't have to worry that we should have perhaps waited to at least get an HDMI 1.3 set. By the time program material and games are out it probably will be time to buy a new TV. I don't notice judder so the 24fps thing isn't that important either.
 
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