I'm looking to replace my Onkyo 828 with the outboard ED-901 and upgrade to separates. I've narrowed down my search to the MC1 and the Casa Nova. Has anyone compared the two of these? Which would fare better in a mostly Home Theater setup?
Lexicon MC1 or Theta Casa Nova?
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Kevin,
You'll find two (relatively) friendly camps on this question. I personally own a CasaNova, so that's my camp.
They are both fine units. IMHO the Theta sounds better on music, 7.1 is not practical for me in my current environment, Circle Surround works well for me, and I love the detail and low-end resolution of the Theta. You wouldn't have to hold a shotgun to my head to make me trade for a Lex. Barring weapons, I'm very happy with my Theta.
Listen to them both. If you're going to buy from a B&M retailer, they should let you borrow them for a short-term loan. They should also be well set-up with realistic amps/speakers in similar surroundings if you're going to audition them in the store.
Check out some of the many related threads in the other popular A/V forums.
Claude
You'll find two (relatively) friendly camps on this question. I personally own a CasaNova, so that's my camp.
They are both fine units. IMHO the Theta sounds better on music, 7.1 is not practical for me in my current environment, Circle Surround works well for me, and I love the detail and low-end resolution of the Theta. You wouldn't have to hold a shotgun to my head to make me trade for a Lex. Barring weapons, I'm very happy with my Theta.
Listen to them both. If you're going to buy from a B&M retailer, they should let you borrow them for a short-term loan. They should also be well set-up with realistic amps/speakers in similar surroundings if you're going to audition them in the store.
Check out some of the many related threads in the other popular A/V forums.
Claude
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763 Posts
Lexicon is an amazing company. I started with the CP3 and they have provided upgrades that were financially attractive for every step between that product and the MC1.
I think the Theta and Meridian have a few features that the MC1 does not have right now. Lexicon is working on a new product, but I don't know when it is due.
You could not go wrong with either product.
In this price range some others also like the Meridian.
Chuck
I think the Theta and Meridian have a few features that the MC1 does not have right now. Lexicon is working on a new product, but I don't know when it is due.
You could not go wrong with either product.
In this price range some others also like the Meridian.
Chuck
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307 Posts
Here's a new viewpoint on the Lexicon/Theta comparison.
Let me start off by saying I do own a Theta CasaNova.
I have heard both units and I believe that the issue is one of Logic 7 and do you need it or want it? Besides the Theta is fully modular including the power supply!
I feel the decision of which unit to buy should be based on if you are concerned with high end audio or buying a seven channel system.
The processing of two channel music and standard 5.1 is extremely detailed in the Casa Nova.
There is one thing that the Theta has that you cant find on the primitive MC-1. Crossovers that are the most flexible of any pre-amp availiable.
If you dont think they make a difference or aren't familiar with them you should definantly listen to the Theta and then you may understand the total flexibility that only a Theta offers.
For the 7.1 camps:
I decided on a Theta on the basis that 7.1 is not much different than a pro-logic rear channel. And at any rate it is not a discrete full range channel thus not an important feature to me. The only thing the Lexicon does better on is 7 channel and even then it is not of the sound quality the Theta offers. When seven channel becomes important I can rest assured that Theta will offer the finest upgrade possible and I will be able to have my cross overs on all seven channels.
I hope this doesn't sound as ignorant as some of the previous post!
I am only saying that if you want to enjoy a pre-amp that can get the most out of any 5.1 configuration there is only the Theta. Some people can't understand because they have no experience with calibrating cross overs.
I never even considered the MC-1 I was looking at processors based on a musical sound quality.
Sorry for the long post but there is no way the MC-1 (excluding 7 channel modes which are the only reason to get this piece) is superior to the
Theta, Ead, Classe, or Meridian.
Let me start off by saying I do own a Theta CasaNova.
I have heard both units and I believe that the issue is one of Logic 7 and do you need it or want it? Besides the Theta is fully modular including the power supply!
I feel the decision of which unit to buy should be based on if you are concerned with high end audio or buying a seven channel system.
The processing of two channel music and standard 5.1 is extremely detailed in the Casa Nova.
There is one thing that the Theta has that you cant find on the primitive MC-1. Crossovers that are the most flexible of any pre-amp availiable.
If you dont think they make a difference or aren't familiar with them you should definantly listen to the Theta and then you may understand the total flexibility that only a Theta offers.
For the 7.1 camps:
I decided on a Theta on the basis that 7.1 is not much different than a pro-logic rear channel. And at any rate it is not a discrete full range channel thus not an important feature to me. The only thing the Lexicon does better on is 7 channel and even then it is not of the sound quality the Theta offers. When seven channel becomes important I can rest assured that Theta will offer the finest upgrade possible and I will be able to have my cross overs on all seven channels.
I hope this doesn't sound as ignorant as some of the previous post!
I am only saying that if you want to enjoy a pre-amp that can get the most out of any 5.1 configuration there is only the Theta. Some people can't understand because they have no experience with calibrating cross overs.
I never even considered the MC-1 I was looking at processors based on a musical sound quality.
Sorry for the long post but there is no way the MC-1 (excluding 7 channel modes which are the only reason to get this piece) is superior to the
Theta, Ead, Classe, or Meridian.
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763 Posts
Nathan:
I would not dispute your comments. The point that I think is significant is the fact that the MC1 is considered a top level product. They have an upgrade policy that is amazing. I hear they have something in the works that will address what you are bringing up.
Chuck
I would not dispute your comments. The point that I think is significant is the fact that the MC1 is considered a top level product. They have an upgrade policy that is amazing. I hear they have something in the works that will address what you are bringing up.
Chuck
I have been using a Theta pre-amp since they first came out 4 years ago, and own 3 other Theta products. I also have alot of experience with the Lexicon products through friends. On this debate between the Casanova and the MC-1 there is a clear winner, Cal Audio is superior to both.
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287 Posts
Hello Kevin,
I would like to add a couple more points to those being evaluated. For the record I own a CP3+ which I am intending to upgrade to an MC1 in the future.
The first point is that of pure audio performance. How important is pure audio performance to you, I am talking 2 channel here? From what I've heard the DACS in the Theta are superior to those in the MC1. I am not talking night and day, just subtlety's here and there which add up to a slightly better performance. In surround sound modes the Lexicons professional heritage shows to me with a slightly leaner, quicker sound which I find more appealing. Please bear in mind that a change in speakers, poor setup or different acoustics would probably tip the balance either way.
Do you use any analogue sources? I'm thinking here specifically a turntable or reel - reel. If you do you would do well to consider the Bryston SP-1 which has an audio only analogue pass through mode. I haven't heard the SP-1 yet, but from what I know of other Bryston products it will offer a lot of sound quality for the money and with the analogue pass through mode it should be a very capable pre amp and DAC for a very reasonable sum. I am unsure how the Casa Nova handles analogue signals, would anyone care to comment if they go through an ADC - DAC chain?
The final comment is one of distribution. Theta use a very tightly controlled network of dealers. Theta will only honour warranties and offer upgrades to owners whose units have been purchased from one of it's approved dealers. This would mean that to someone like me I would be able to buy a Casa Nova, but I would only have the dealers warranty and would have problems organising upgrades. In this day and age of the net and free trade between countries I find this archaic system of sales and distribution (and this level of control) unacceptable. I should be able to buy my unit anywhere I choose and still have warranty coverage and be able to get upgrades. I have no such problems with either Lexicon or Bryston. As an alternative there should be far more equality in pricign between countries. At the moment the Casa Nova in the UK is almost 50% more expensive than in the USA. Bryston on the other hand are almost identically priced to the USA.
For me both Bryston and Lexicon offer far more competitive means of obtaining a top notch processor. I don't know what you're local availability of Theta products is like, but if you do choose the Theta please ensure the dealer is authorised or you could find yourself unable to obtain upgrades or warranty coverage.
I don't think you'd be dissapointed with the performance of either processor in your system. Good luck with your choice.
Regards and best wishes
Dave
------------------
Do you still listen to vinyl?
If so then come and see us fellow vinyl lovers
at http://www.analogue-domain.org.uk
I would like to add a couple more points to those being evaluated. For the record I own a CP3+ which I am intending to upgrade to an MC1 in the future.
The first point is that of pure audio performance. How important is pure audio performance to you, I am talking 2 channel here? From what I've heard the DACS in the Theta are superior to those in the MC1. I am not talking night and day, just subtlety's here and there which add up to a slightly better performance. In surround sound modes the Lexicons professional heritage shows to me with a slightly leaner, quicker sound which I find more appealing. Please bear in mind that a change in speakers, poor setup or different acoustics would probably tip the balance either way.
Do you use any analogue sources? I'm thinking here specifically a turntable or reel - reel. If you do you would do well to consider the Bryston SP-1 which has an audio only analogue pass through mode. I haven't heard the SP-1 yet, but from what I know of other Bryston products it will offer a lot of sound quality for the money and with the analogue pass through mode it should be a very capable pre amp and DAC for a very reasonable sum. I am unsure how the Casa Nova handles analogue signals, would anyone care to comment if they go through an ADC - DAC chain?
The final comment is one of distribution. Theta use a very tightly controlled network of dealers. Theta will only honour warranties and offer upgrades to owners whose units have been purchased from one of it's approved dealers. This would mean that to someone like me I would be able to buy a Casa Nova, but I would only have the dealers warranty and would have problems organising upgrades. In this day and age of the net and free trade between countries I find this archaic system of sales and distribution (and this level of control) unacceptable. I should be able to buy my unit anywhere I choose and still have warranty coverage and be able to get upgrades. I have no such problems with either Lexicon or Bryston. As an alternative there should be far more equality in pricign between countries. At the moment the Casa Nova in the UK is almost 50% more expensive than in the USA. Bryston on the other hand are almost identically priced to the USA.
For me both Bryston and Lexicon offer far more competitive means of obtaining a top notch processor. I don't know what you're local availability of Theta products is like, but if you do choose the Theta please ensure the dealer is authorised or you could find yourself unable to obtain upgrades or warranty coverage.
I don't think you'd be dissapointed with the performance of either processor in your system. Good luck with your choice.
Regards and best wishes
Dave
------------------
Do you still listen to vinyl?
If so then come and see us fellow vinyl lovers
at http://www.analogue-domain.org.uk
for mostly HT and ease of setup, Id recommend lexicon. for demading audiophile 2 channel and HT then Id look at all the others mentioned- not that the MC-1 is bad, its very nice indeed. Personally I prefer the Meridian stuff, but they are all good, the key is to know what you want to use it for and if that use will change. Lexicon is a great company, and with your parameter of 80% HT Id say you wont be sorry for going with Lexicon- but do yourself a favor and demo the processors.
- Jerry
[This message has been edited by aerialman (edited June 08, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by aerialman (edited June 08, 2000).]
- Jerry
[This message has been edited by aerialman (edited June 08, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by aerialman (edited June 08, 2000).]
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307 Posts
E-mail me if you are interested in the Casa Nova!
Maybe I can help you?
I like to help a fellow enthusiast out!
You could sell your old gear on the bay?
I have listened to EAD and THETA alot they are both great for two channel but I will agree the EAD is a little warmer where the Theta is a little more controlled and detailed to my ears.
If you dont do alot of stereo that may change with your new pre-amp maybe not though.
In my opinion all top notch processors are very simular on movies the thing that makes the Theta different is the crossovers they each have a completely different sound.
I would wait for a real 6.1 or 7.1 though this EX and ES are pure crap in my opinion but I would consider my overall goal to be purity nothing else?
If you have the money CasaBlanca 2 is the best you can get or the Meridian 861!
Casa Nova is a good start. At least for me it seems to have been ideal!
Nathan
Maybe I can help you?
I like to help a fellow enthusiast out!
You could sell your old gear on the bay?
I have listened to EAD and THETA alot they are both great for two channel but I will agree the EAD is a little warmer where the Theta is a little more controlled and detailed to my ears.
If you dont do alot of stereo that may change with your new pre-amp maybe not though.
In my opinion all top notch processors are very simular on movies the thing that makes the Theta different is the crossovers they each have a completely different sound.
I would wait for a real 6.1 or 7.1 though this EX and ES are pure crap in my opinion but I would consider my overall goal to be purity nothing else?
If you have the money CasaBlanca 2 is the best you can get or the Meridian 861!
Casa Nova is a good start. At least for me it seems to have been ideal!
Nathan
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1,731 Posts
Kevin,
There are some critical questions you have to answer to help you make this decision.
1)Does your room setup allow for sitting in the sweet spot for listening to 2 channel music? Does the placement of your left and righ speaker and acoustical treatments allow for you to create good 2 chanel imaging?
(Sitting on the center axis of your room for oprimal 2 channel imaging will adversely affect your perception of bass performance for home theater ).
2)How many people will you accomodate in this room? How is your seating setup?
3)If you are doing mostly home theater, is the rooms design based on this preference?
4)Will you utilize the extra speakers for the logic 7 mode? If you have not heard this setup with all seven speakers setup and calibrated correcty you cannot minimize the improvement it can provide for home theater. I believe that people have minimized the sophistication of the logic 7 DSP, because it is brainless to implement aa an end user.
Like the others I have an opinion.
First and foremost, both of these products are excellent. All of these products are sophisiticated single purpose computers. I have never believed you can optimize one room for high end 2 channel audio and home theateer at the same time. If your music listening needs are minimal, with mostly casual listening, I would opt for the lexicon. If It was an even split between home theater and discrminating 2 channel listening, I would probably have to go with the thera. If it was mostly music with a little theater I would have purchased the Classe'.
Good luck with your selection.
[This message has been edited by Don O'Brien (edited June 08, 2000).]
There are some critical questions you have to answer to help you make this decision.
1)Does your room setup allow for sitting in the sweet spot for listening to 2 channel music? Does the placement of your left and righ speaker and acoustical treatments allow for you to create good 2 chanel imaging?
(Sitting on the center axis of your room for oprimal 2 channel imaging will adversely affect your perception of bass performance for home theater ).
2)How many people will you accomodate in this room? How is your seating setup?
3)If you are doing mostly home theater, is the rooms design based on this preference?
4)Will you utilize the extra speakers for the logic 7 mode? If you have not heard this setup with all seven speakers setup and calibrated correcty you cannot minimize the improvement it can provide for home theater. I believe that people have minimized the sophistication of the logic 7 DSP, because it is brainless to implement aa an end user.
Like the others I have an opinion.
First and foremost, both of these products are excellent. All of these products are sophisiticated single purpose computers. I have never believed you can optimize one room for high end 2 channel audio and home theateer at the same time. If your music listening needs are minimal, with mostly casual listening, I would opt for the lexicon. If It was an even split between home theater and discrminating 2 channel listening, I would probably have to go with the thera. If it was mostly music with a little theater I would have purchased the Classe'.
Good luck with your selection.
[This message has been edited by Don O'Brien (edited June 08, 2000).]
My opinion is, if you want a computer, buy a Lexicon. If you want an audiophile pre-amp, buy a Theta. That is not to say that the Theta (or most) pre-amp(s) aren't like computers, but Lexicon's DAC and analog stage is not comparable to Theta, Meridian, EAD, Proceed, or Krell.
Oh, of course I agree with Hootch - the ovation or signature will provide the highest level of musical bliss out there in a pre-pro (<$12k). Why spend another 6-10k to get 0.0000001% better sound?
What ever floats your boat,
Rob
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Migliore Theater
[This message has been edited by migliore (edited June 08, 2000).]
Oh, of course I agree with Hootch - the ovation or signature will provide the highest level of musical bliss out there in a pre-pro (<$12k). Why spend another 6-10k to get 0.0000001% better sound?
What ever floats your boat,
Rob
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Migliore Theater
[This message has been edited by migliore (edited June 08, 2000).]
Well, after all this the picture still seems a little muddy to me. I won't be using any analog sources with the preamp. It'll be used primarily for HT, probably about 85% of the time. I'm leaning towards the Theta, however Lexicon's current buy-back of my gear is an enticing offer. If Theta would match that buy-back offer, then I'd get the Casa Nova for sure.
Jeff, I've decided to go with the MC-1. Now time for another agonizing decision - which amp to go with? I'm looking at the ATI 1506 and the Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature. Comments on either of these two amps? Anything else I should be looking at in this price range?
There's always the EAD Powermaster 500, 100Wx5 retailing for $1600, or the PM 1000, 200Wx5 retailing for $2750 (and the PM2000, 400Wx5 for $5k). The Powermaster amps share a power supply to deliver power where needed the most, but also have good channel separation.
The amp series has gotten much praise my dealers, owners, and reviewers alike.
Enjoy,
Rob
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Migliore Theater
The amp series has gotten much praise my dealers, owners, and reviewers alike.
Enjoy,
Rob
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Migliore Theater
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