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But this is the in-start menu (the screenshot).

By the way, I did unfortunately press the in-stop button. I hope there is still a way to fix things :(
Ah, then it's the service menu. I always mix them up, sorry :)
Anyway you should have two different buttons (in-start and service menu) and the settings are under one of them.
 

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There are 3 options
  • INSTART - Which is the menu you are showing there
  • INSTOP - Which is something you should never press as it factory resets your TV and all the time counters etc
  • EZ-ADJUST - This is what we refer to as Service Menu, and is named that way on some Harmony remotes.
 

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There are 3 options
  • INSTART - Which is the menu you are showing there
  • INSTOP - Which is something you should never press as it factory resets your TV and all the time counters etc
  • EZ-ADJUST - This is what we refer to as Service Menu, and is named that way on some Harmony remotes.
Thanks for your reply. On my remote there's a button called ADJ, I guess that's the one?

I accidentally pressed the IN STOP button, assuming it would get me out of the menu. Now I saw some weird stuff happening and the whole TV was reset. Did I completely screw my TV? It's only a few days old...
 

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What you’ve done then is you’ve factory reset your TV and reset all time counters that the pixel refresher function relies on to operate correctly. If your TV is brand new, then there will be no real detrimental effect. But it must be said that nowhere, anywhere, in any guide for Service Menu white balance calibration will it ever say you should press the INSTOP button. In fact quite the opposite, it always stated that you should never press it unless you have had a panel replacement.

Yes, ADJ will likely be the EZ-ADJUST menu.
 

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Regarding that bump in brightness, have you verified that you're not experiencing the bug introduced with the 05.0.03 firmware? If that is the case brightness at 53 could in that case introduce intermittent elevated blacks...
The "crushed" black issue has been there long before I upgraded to 5.0.03. I held off on that one for quite a while. I haven't noticed intermittent blacks, yet. Although I can say that things look much better for dark scenes.
 

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Are there any Resolve users here? I'm a little confused whether Resolve can be used as a proper pattern generator to output 255.255.255. What I understood from Ted is that when you generate a patch with a patch scale of 0-255 in Colourspace, it will actually output a 16-235 patchscale in Resolve. Can anyone confirm this? My 'Lightspace Calibration' inside Resolve says (255,255,255).

I'm sorry if I don't understand it all, I'm not too technical.
 

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What you’ve done then is you’ve factory reset your TV and reset all time counters that the pixel refresher function relies on to operate correctly. If your TV is brand new, then there will be no real detrimental effect. But it must be said that nowhere, anywhere, in any guide for Service Menu white balance calibration will it ever say you should press the INSTOP button. In fact quite the opposite, it always stated that you should never press it unless you have had a panel replacement.

Yes, ADJ will likely be the EZ-ADJUST menu.
For what it is worth, I have removed INSTOP from my Harmony remote profile for my LG so that I NEVER accidentally hit it. :)
 

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For what it is worth, I have removed INSTOP from my Harmony remote profile for my LG so that I NEVER accidentally hit it. :)
It was actually the very first thing I did when I set up my two LG OLEDs on both my Harmony Elite and my Harmony 665 🤪
 

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Are there any Resolve users here? I'm a little confused whether Resolve can be used as a proper pattern generator to output 255.255.255. What I understood from Ted is that when you generate a patch with a patch scale of 0-255 in Colourspace, it will actually output a 16-235 patchscale in Resolve. Can anyone confirm this? My 'Lightspace Calibration' inside Resolve says (255,255,255).

I'm sorry if I don't understand it all, I'm not too technical.
Hi Sander,

Resolve will output 235.235.235 to your LG in a video timeline when it will take from ColourSpace 255.255.255.

Looking to your GUI monitor, the Resolve iTPG will say 255.255.255.

I have checked with a digital pixel analyzer and with external waveform scopes with RGB peak level indicators.
 

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Hi Sander,

Resolve will output 235.235.235 to your LG in a video timeline when it will take from ColourSpace 255.255.255.

Looking to your GUI monitor, the Resolve iTPG will say 255.255.255.

I have checked with a digital pixel analyzer and with external waveform scopes with RGB peak level indicators.
Hi Ted,

Thanks for replying.

What I don't understand: what if I put a solid white in the time line, and put my monitor data levels (through decklink card, so not the GUI) at 'full' (in stead of video), why wouldn't it show 255?
 

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Hi Ted,

Thanks for replying.

What I don't understand: what if I put a solid white in the time line, and put my monitor data levels (through decklink cards) at 'full' (in stead of video), why wouldn't it show 255?
It will show 255, but also you will have 0 black also! so it can't be used for internal LUT calibration of LG!

TV need 16-255 LUT and video signal for patch generator.

You can't generate 16-255 for iTPG of Resolve.

You can generate 16-235 video with iTPG of Resolve.

TV needs video levels, not PC levels for internal LUT.

See to your emails, I had explained all these questions 2 days ago.
 

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Regarding that bump in brightness, have you verified that you're not experiencing the bug introduced with the 05.0.03 firmware? If that is the case brightness at 53 could in that case introduce intermittent elevated blacks...
What bug did 05.0.03 introduce?
 

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What bug did 05.0.03 introduce?
See these posts for more information:

TLDR; some users are experiencing intermittent black crush on SDR material on firmware 05.00.03 and 05.00.10.
 

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What bug did 05.0.03 introduce?
The problem of the crushed Near is real and it is not known which firmware actually introduced it.

I was able to watch it on my TV and on that of three friends to whom I had recommended LG C / E9 in Italy.

In Italy I also received feedback from a user on a forum who had made the calibration, a professional calibration.
The operator first looked for the correct black point to see 17, so he had set Brightness 54, when I saw this data written on the Forum I asked the owner to do a quick test.

Load the Ted Test Tunnel, turn off the TV, unplug the power, wait for the Stand By light to go out, plug it back in, and double check the Tunnel Test Ted, with Brightness 54 as set by the professional now the black was raised , Black was on and was visible up to level 14, so beyond Black which should be 16.

So I told him to put Brightness 50 and double check the Ted Tunnel test, the 17 level was now visible and Black panel on the 16 level, but the next day the crushed Black was present again, so for him it was necessary to bring back Brightness 54 to see level 17.

The problem that is added to the Black Crushed of level 17 is related to the management of the transitions between 17 and 24, the transitions degrade their separation, and sometimes the flashing on level 18 may appear, this depends on the degree of malfunction that occurs in that moment on the TV, it is not always the same, it is not constant, sometimes it can happen that despite the firmware presents this Bug it can happen that the TV works correctly with Brightness 50, correct functioning percentages even if the Bug is present no more than 30% ok , 70% of the time the problem occurs at power on, or after a few minutes, or after 1 hour or 2 hours.

This is unacceptable.
The following should be read more carefully:

I bought Lg E9 in September 2019, with Brightness 50 and Contrast 85 the Near Black was perfect, level 16 Black, level 17 Visible correctly, Tunnel Test Ted with perfect shades from 17 to 24.

A few months ago this perfect functioning in Near Black disappeared, or rather, sometimes it works (30% of the time) but sometimes it fails (70% of the time), I contacted the Technical Assistance Center, they had no solution and they said a Firmware Bug was impossible, then I asked them if I could buy a new motherboard, it is possible so I mounted it with the Technician, my Near Black was back perfect with Brightness 50, the firmware of that motherboard was 03.60.XX, I updated until 04.70.05 and I kept this condition for 30 days, checked every day in the evening; as soon as the TV was turned on, every 2 hours and before turning it off, the Near Black was always perfect, so I updated to the next Firmware and shortly after the crushed Black came back, now it had been shown that the problem is the Firmware.

Of course I do not accept this, I called the Technical Assistance Center again and told them to observe the problem, now I had two motherboards with the same problem caused by the firmware, now demonstrated in a practical and direct way, the technician recognized the Bug and this time he changed my mother card for free.

Now for 40 days I have been mounting this additional motherboard with Firmware 04.70.05 and the Near Black is perfect, with or without Lut3D it is always perfect as it should be with Brightness 50, each panel that to observe level 17 must raise the Brightness over 50 has the Firmware defect.

this is the original motherboard that i could keep since i paid for the first replacement out of my pocket.
I wait for LG to remedy this serious error introduced with an unacceptable Bug on lFirmware in order to be able to reassemble it and test any corrective firmware.

In the meantime I continue to use a motherboard with firmware 04.70.05 because I believe it is very important to have the right management of the Near Black and currently it is only possible with this firmware.

I wrote a letter in polite tones to Lg where I expose the problem, the Technician of the Assistance Center pointed out the problem to Lg Italy but still no one says anything, there are Users around Europe with this problem but their assistance centers do not listen.

Anyone with this anomaly must contact their assistance center and point out the thing, if you need you can contact me at +39 3479033333 (Giovanni) I can try to put my assistance center in contact with yours, we must ask for a solution to this Bug, Lg series C / E9 had a perfect Near Black, now it is lost due to a Bug on the Firmware.


This is the Ted Tunnel for those who do not know it, they are the Ted Aspiotis patterns, they have a low cost but are very very useful for observing many things of our panels, in this case of great help to identify this boring and serious defect.
Brightness 50

If by chance you were to buy it, the Test does not look exactly like this, the photo is an exposure of 30 seconds with aperture f.4 so the brighter parts have undergone an exponential increase, but the test is especially useful on the part of the Rectangle to evaluate the management of transitions between level 17 and 24, each transition must be separated gradually.

I recommend it to each of you if you don't already have it.
 

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Hmm I think I actually did notice this once when I checked black level for crush in a dark room, by creating a RGB 1,1,1 rectangle inside a RGB 0,0,0 background the RGB 1,1,1 0.5% gray/bar 17 was completely black instead, and pulling the plug seemed to fix it the next time I restarted the TV.
Seems I gotta check with a black level test every 2-3 hours now if the bug is truly random which is a pain in the ass to do.
 

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The problem of the crushed Near is real and it is not known which firmware actually introduced it.
WOW, I'm sorry to hear about your problem.

The general info for OLED users is that a 'cold' TV will require about 40-60 minutes to work before starting calibration.

During that period, the gamma will change until about ~50 minutes, where it will be stable.

But the problem you had is not something normal, as the black level should not change during that period.

About the pattern you used for that testing, its the Black Tunnel:



Black Tunnel pattern has flashing elements.

That picture below, is not the actual pattern, but I have lifted the brightness by 150% more using PhotoShop to the whole image to be easier for the users to see all the pattern areas.



The elements which have to flash is the 17 boxes, the text which says 17 (large letters at the center-left top side, left bottom side) or 0.5% (at center right side).

Also, no box should be visible at the bottom left side because all boxes are from 16 till 8. Only the letters which say 17 has to be visible and flashing.

This pattern is good for checking when a wrong brightness setting will lift black levels.

About the text element, which says 'This is 2%/4% below black and should not be visible'', the letters have 16 level fill, so they have to be invisible. (If the user sees a border for this letter, this means that he has high sharpness or it's coming from processing during upscaling)

When you don't see any flashing box of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters fill ''This is 2%/4% below Black and should not be visible (letters fill/color is 16); means that some enhancement in processing is detecting and boosting that level, so you have to find out which setting is enabling the artifact and disable it.

When you don't see any flashing box of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters boarder (not fill) ''This is 2%/4% below black and should not be visible (letters fill/color is 16), its reference Black & should not be visible flashing (while the letters fill is invisible); this means that your current sharpness setting is not correct and you have to reduce the sharpness slider more.

It has to do with the combination of sharpness setting with the image processing engine of each display that enables/boosting these fake details that are not supposed to be visible.

Black Tunnel is a good pattern to check near black levels to 3 parts of the screen. Not only one, as usual.
 

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Hmm I think I actually did notice this once when I checked black level for crush in a dark room, by creating a RGB 1,1,1 rectangle inside a RGB 0,0,0 background the RGB 1,1,1 0.5% gray/bar 17 was completely black instead, and pulling the plug seemed to fix it the next time I restarted the TV.
Seems I gotta check with a black level test every 2-3 hours now if the bug is truly random which is a pain in the ass to do.
I'm not sure if it's related to a power off / on or if the black level is actually changing once the TV is running. But more information about this weird behavior would be useful.
 

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WOW, I'm sorry to hear about your problem.

The general info for OLED users is that a 'cold' TV will require about 40-60 minutes to work before starting calibration.

During that period, the gamma will change until about ~50 minutes, where it will be stable......

Hi Ted, thanks but;
the problem is not just about me, many users have this problem and unfortunately it is related to a Firmware released after 04.70.05 but I have not been able to understand which one, however it is caused by one of the following firmware until 05.00. 10 that I had on the original motherboard while on the first motherboard I replaced I was signed at 05.00.03.

It does not depend on the operating temperature of the panel because it looks like this:
1) sometimes when switched on it works well, but after an hour, or 30 minutes, or a few minutes, or never in that day .... Black Crushed begins ......
2) other times when switched on, the crushed Black is present and no longer returns to normal ....
3) or, as soon as it is turned on, Black crushed is present but then suddenly it returns to normal
4) now, turn on the TV, the black is squashed, then turn off the TV, unplug the plug etc ... and work again

But on the new motherboard (the third one) where I stopped the Firmware at 04.70.05 the near black always works perfectly, both in the test of your Tunnel (very useful like many of your other patterns), and when watching the Movies.

I decided to buy the motherboard the first time to understand what the problem was and once I observed that it was related to the Firmware I also involved the Lg Service Center technician in my area to make sure that there was a trace, initially he was skeptical but then he saw and understood.

As I said, I have observed this behavior on 4 panels that I have seen (100%), only 4 panels cannot indicate that everyone can present the problem at the moment, maybe it is only part of one or more batches of panels, other Users in Europe have this anomaly and I seem to have also read about some in the United States.

Thank you for the excellent patterns you created and also for the help you offered me in the Lut3D generation, amazing.

I must point out that the Tunnel you highlighted and explained in your answer is in general very useful but in this case it is decisively so.
 
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Hi Ted, thanks but;
the problem is not just about me, many users have this problem and unfortunately it is related to a Firmware released after 04.70.05 but I have not been able to understand which one, however it is caused by one of the following firmware until 05.00. 10 that I had on the original motherboard while on the first motherboard I replaced I was signed at 05.00.03.
Neil Robinson (LG) is responsible for the calibration capabilities. He has this user name:


If you can open a separate thread talking specifically about the problem, maybe other users can comment, and it may bring some attention.
 

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I'm not sure if it's related to a power off / on or if the black level is actually changing once the TV is running. But more information about this weird behavior would be useful.
Hi Callek,
On both Motherboards, one with Frimware 05.00.03 and the other with 05.00.10 I was able to see it change even during the TV running while I was doing the tests, when I noticed the problem I followed the story a lot because I wanted to identify the case, I knew that I would not get answers from the C.A.T (technical assistance center), I saw live both the moment in which in front of Ted's Tunnel suddenly the 17 turned black and no longer returned to normal ... but I saw live that is while the opposite effect also occurred, with the fixed black 17 suddenly returning everything to normal but only temporarily because then after 1 hour or 2 hours it returned to being Black Crushed.

it is all very random and due to one of the latest firmware.

Excuse me if I'm repetitive but the current Motherboard with the firmware stopped at 04.70.05 the Near Black always works with excellent gradient management.
 
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