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So I got my set delivered yesterday and briefly messed around with a pluge pattern (Spears and Munsil (without the equal energy border), has a checkerboard pattern as well with 16 and 17 black squares). How noticeable is the black glow when adjusting brightness? I only observed briefly, but I didn't see a pure black, and then a near black with a glow, it just jumped right to a dark gray at brightness 56.

I also experimented with 5% luminance, even pushing it to +50 I didn't notice any change in 17 nor the 2% blackness bar. What am I doing wrong?
I'm no expert and don't mess would be White balance control but I can tell you that brightness at 56 is too high. The consensus seems to be between 50 and 53 (depending on the panel). Anything above that and you lose your black. Black becomes gray. I use the gray bar steps pattern on DVE and AVSHD709 and 53 is just right on my set. Anything above that and the black bar becomes distinguishable from the below black bars which means black is turning gray.
 

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I'm no expert and don't mess would be White balance control but I can tell you that brightness at 56 is too high. The consensus seems to be between 50 and 53 (depending on the panel). Anything above that and you lose your black. Black becomes gray. I use the gray bar stamps pattern on DVD and AVSHD709 and 53 is just ride on my set. Anything about that and the black bar becomes distinguishable from the below black bars which means black is turning gray.
Yeah I was just curious if other people are seeing something in between pure black and gray. Once it's darker out in a few hours I'll check again closer.

Update: Upon (super) close inspection, I saw this glowing at 53 so am at 52 now. 1% black was visible on the Disney WOW test pattern, but I bumped 5% luminace to +3 for now until I do something more precise with my meter.
 

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Yeah I was just curious if other people are seeing something in between pure black and gray. Once it's darker out in a few hours I'll check again closer.

Update: Upon (super) close inspection, I saw this glowing at 53 so am at 52 now. 1% black was visible on the Disney WOW test pattern, but I bumped 5% luminace to +3 for now until I do something more precise with my meter.
The glowing black is really hard to see. You pretty much have to be in total darkness with dark adapted eyes to see it. It sounds crazy, but a good way to make sure brightness isn't too high is with a cardboard tube from a toilet paper roll. If you hold it up to the screen and look through as you raise brightness, you can just see the screen start to light up when you've gone too far. Your eyes are even more sensitive if you don't look directly down the tube. Sort of look to the side so you see the screen out of the corner of your eye. Anyway, it all depends how anal you want to get, haha. Settings of 51-52 are usually pretty safe. I'm at 51, but I've made some luminance and RGB adjustments.
 

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I could maybe push OLED light to 35, but even that isn't always comfortable to my eyes. I think I may be a bit more sensitive to bright screens in dark rooms than other people.
You aren't the only one: I watch in a bias lit environment because complete dark tires my eyes quickly and I have OLED Light = 20 with Gamma = 2.2 Brightness = 57, Color = 46 and Luminance boosted at IRE 5-30 and it gives the best results for me so far. I also use Warm1 as Warm2 is much too red, but the best would be somewhere between those two as Warm1 is a little too blue. I also need to remove the green tint, but haven't found the best solution for that yet.

With my previous Sony EX500 LCD, I also had backlight at minimum, so I don't like very bright scenes. I was very comfortable with that LCD, but wanted to improve it further with OLED. So far I haven't quite been able to get the OLED to match the presentation of the Sony, which is disappointing.

This likely means HDR will not be a good fit for me, so I wish the industry had simply gone with 4k, higher bit depth and greater colour gamut and left "HDR" as an optional extra.

Perhaps I am imagining it, but whites also don't have quite the gradation I was expecting as if they too suffer from similar quantisation issues as near black.
 

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I also experimented with 5% luminance, even pushing it to +50 I didn't notice any change in 17 nor the 2% blackness bar. What am I doing wrong?
AFAIK, Brightness and Contrast settings are basically used to scale Video input from a range of 16-235 to a range of 0-255 (or its 10 bit equivalent), then gamma curve is applied to compensate for the inverse pre-emphasis applied to an encode and finally the resulting values are translated to actual intensity of peak white output (and thus all lower values) with the OLED Light control. Think of the Gamma curve as a piece-wise linear exponential curve with 20 segments, starting at zero.

The 20 point controls adjust the gamma curve segments, but since the first segment is locked to zero, any adjustments to the curve will have a proportionately smaller effect on values closest to zero. This is why Video 17 doesn't change much, even when IRE 5 Luminance is adjusted by a large amount, because the effect is only about 1/5 of the effect at the IRE 5 point. Adjusting IRE 5 mainly affects IRE 5, so you would see the luminance of that point change markedly but the change reduce the further one moves away from that point on either side.

Unfortunately, control granularity is set at 20 points, which means you can't adjust Video 17 on its own.

However, Gamma is not being used solely to invert the pre-emphasis in the encode, but also to offset non-linearities in the display. The same applies to Brightness and Contrast: in a digital system, neither is required because video is supposed to conform to standards, however the displays do not behave linearly and precisely. Theoretically, we could do away with Gamma, Brightness and Contrast controls and only have an intensity control, plus some internal controls to offset the non-linearity of that display against the standards, but that would effectively require the manufacturer to calibrate the TV themselves. Since they don't wish to do that, we have Brightness, Contrast and Gamma controls for the consumer to adjust.
 

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So I got my set delivered yesterday and briefly messed around with a pluge pattern (Spears and Munsil (without the equal energy border), has a checkerboard pattern as well with 16 and 17 black squares). How noticeable is the black glow when adjusting brightness? I only observed briefly, but I didn't see a pure black, and then a near black with a glow, it just jumped right to a dark gray at brightness 56.

I also experimented with 5% luminance, even pushing it to +50 I didn't notice any change in 17 nor the 2% blackness bar. What am I doing wrong?
This can happen if your white balance controls are out of alignment with patterns.
This is caused by changing brightness/contrast.

On my E6, ISF defaults to:
OLED Light = 80 (this can be ignored, this control does not effect any other control while other controls will effect each other)
Contrast = 85
Brightness = 50
0.5 & 1% are not practically effected by IRE 5 controls. IMO you need to raise 5% too much to get changes that low.
[email protected] better aligns them.

Having white balance controls that are aligned is important even if you don't want to use them (like not having a meter).

Also, every time you adjust contrast it will cause a grayscale shift (so IRE 95 becomes IRE 100, and any data above it is effectively lost (clipped). You won't see this in a clipping pattern because this is a different kind of clipping (similar to incorrectly set high/low black levels).
I'm going to be explaining this shift in more detail in the calibration thread once I'm satisfied with my explanation.
 

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The glowing black is really hard to see. You pretty much have to be in total darkness with dark adapted eyes to see it. It sounds crazy, but a good way to make sure brightness isn't too high is with a cardboard tube from a toilet paper roll. If you hold it up to the screen and look through as you raise brightness, you can just see the screen start to light up when you've gone too far. Your eyes are even more sensitive if you don't look directly down the tube. Sort of look to the side so you see the screen out of the corner of your eye. Anyway, it all depends how anal you want to get, haha. Settings of 51-52 are usually pretty safe. I'm at 51, but I've made some luminance and RGB adjustments.
If your not in a dark room, you can cover you and the display with a blanket. This lets you stay further away from the display which makes glowing blacks much easier to see. Just remember to turn off as much light as possible and pull the sides up so you can't see light reflecting off the ground.

In.vincible has a good point about looking with your peripheral vision. No clue why this works.
 

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The glowing black is really hard to see. You pretty much have to be in total darkness with dark adapted eyes to see it. It sounds crazy, but a good way to make sure brightness isn't too high is with a cardboard tube from a toilet paper roll. If you hold it up to the screen and look through as you raise brightness, you can just see the screen start to light up when you've gone too far. Your eyes are even more sensitive if you don't look directly down the tube. Sort of look to the side so you see the screen out of the corner of your eye. Anyway, it all depends how anal you want to get, haha. Settings of 51-52 are usually pretty safe. I'm at 51, but I've made some luminance and RGB adjustments.
Does anyone sell these toilet tube glasses? --_0-0_-- :eek:
 
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Comments....

AFAIK, Brightness and Contrast settings are basically used to scale Video input from a range of 16-235 to a range of 0-255 (or its 10 bit equivalent), then gamma curve is applied to compensate for the inverse pre-emphasis applied to an encode and finally the resulting values are translated to actual intensity of peak white output (and thus all lower values) with the OLED Light control. Think of the Gamma curve as a piece-wise linear exponential curve with 20 segments, starting at zero.

Picture Mode Settings > Black Level - Low is 16-235, High is 0-255. Brightness and Contrast have nothing to do with it.

The 20 point controls adjust the gamma curve segments, but since the first segment is locked to zero, any adjustments to the curve will have a proportionately smaller effect on values closest to zero. This is why Video 17 doesn't change much, even when IRE 5 Luminance is adjusted by a large amount, because the effect is only about 1/5 of the effect at the IRE 5 point. Adjusting IRE 5 mainly affects IRE 5, so you would see the luminance of that point change markedly but the change reduce the further one moves away from that point on either side.

Correct, but lowering gamma at 5% increases luminance at 0.5% (video 17) enough to make a difference.

Unfortunately, control granularity is set at 20 points, which means you can't adjust Video 17 on its own.

However, Gamma is not being used solely to invert the pre-emphasis in the encode, but also to offset non-linearities in the display. The same applies to Brightness and Contrast: in a digital system, neither is required because video is supposed to conform to standards, however the displays do not behave linearly and precisely. Theoretically, we could do away with Gamma, Brightness and Contrast controls and only have an intensity control, plus some internal controls to offset the non-linearity of that display against the standards, but that would effectively require the manufacturer to calibrate the TV themselves. Since they don't wish to do that, we have Brightness, Contrast and Gamma controls for the consumer to adjust.
 

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Comments....
"AFAIK, Brightness and Contrast settings are basically used to scale Video input from a range of 16-235 to a range of 0-255 (or its 10 bit equivalent)"

So if this is the case, why not set the devices connected to the tv to rgb full and set tv to HDMI black level high if the tv is converting 16-235 to 0-255? My OPPO gives me the choice to select 4:2:2, 4:4:4, RGB limited or RGB full.
 

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If your not in a dark room, you can cover you and the display with a blanket. This lets you stay further away from the display which makes glowing blacks much easier to see. Just remember to turn off as much light as possible and pull the sides up so you can't see light reflecting off the ground.

In.vincible has a good point about looking with your peripheral vision. No clue why this works.
Averted vision. It's a little tip I picked up when I was into astronomy. Makes seeing extremely faint objects easier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averted_vision
 

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I started working on my grayscale calibration last night, currently sitting at an average dE of .23 (peak of .6). Contrast is at 84, brightness at 51, and OLED light at 29 (gives me just under 40 ftl = ~135 nits). Gamma is 2.386 on average (yes I find it kind of fun to be so anal about decimals lol).

I'll tidy up gamma once it's dark out tonight. I want to try and be somewhat scientific with how I adjust near-blacks. I'm thinking of aiming for 2.1 gamma at 5%, 2.2 at 10% and 2.35 at 15% ("scientific" although my targets are arbitrary. If any of the pros find this logical or illogical or have alternative targets like 1.9 at 5% or 2.35 at 10% or whatever, let me know)

I found the math here, http://www.chromapure.com/colorscience-gamma.asp

(.05^2.1) * Y. My current luminace is half of this target (2.32 gamma currently). I'll post back later with how many clicks it took to close the gap, may be useful for those without a meter.

(.1^2.2) * Y. Currently at 2.36.

(.15^2.35) * Y. Currently at 2.38 so maybe only +1 or +2 necessary.

While a bit anal, it may be interesting to see how this compares to the ramp down method people have been using. Also, it'll be "fun" to go through this all again when I re-calibrate at 300 hours.
 

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I started working on my grayscale calibration last night, currently sitting at an average dE of .23 (peak of .6). Contrast is at 84, brightness at 51, and OLED light at 29 (gives me just under 40 ftl = ~135 nits). Gamma is 2.386 on average (yes I find it kind of fun to be so anal about decimals lol).

I'll tidy up gamma once it's dark out tonight. I want to try and be somewhat scientific with how I adjust near-blacks. I'm thinking of aiming for 2.1 gamma at 5%, 2.2 at 10% and 2.35 at 15% ("scientific" although my targets are arbitrary. If any of the pros find this logical or illogical or have alternative targets like 1.9 at 5% or 2.35 at 10% or whatever, let me know)

I found the math here, http://www.chromapure.com/colorscience-gamma.asp

(.05^2.1) * Y. My current luminace is half of this target (2.32 gamma currently). I'll post back later with how many clicks it took to close the gap, may be useful for those without a meter.

(.1^2.2) * Y. Currently at 2.36.

(.15^2.35) * Y. Currently at 2.38 so maybe only +1 or +2 necessary.

While a bit anal, it may be interesting to see how this compares to the ramp down method people have been using. Also, it'll be "fun" to go through this all again when I re-calibrate at 300 hours.
I think most of us fall into the following groups:
Without meters, making incremental adjustments in 20-point controls.
With meters, 1886 curve with a slight offset (I have black at 0.00215 for calculating targets, black is still black)
With meters, 2.4/true 1886 curve (black = 0), only IRE 5 deviates (2.2-2.35 gamma).

An unusual technique is that you can raise brightness (yes, lifting black) to shift IRE 5 control alignment (to effect 0.5% and 1% more) and set black with 2-point LOW. This will shift your control points down from IRE 5-60 (10% now controls 5%, etc).
I know no one is asking for this but here's what I've been doing when I've mentioned "seting black with 2-point low" in more detail:

I set IRE 5 controls all to +0
I set IRE 10 controls to +50 luminance/red and -50green/blue
Then look at a 0.5% pattern, raise brightness until it is barely tinted red.
Reset IRE controls, balance a 2% pattern with IRE 5 controls, balance 5% with IRE 10 controls
Look at a 0% pattern with no lights on (Velvet trick, toilet paper goggles, blanket over you and display, etc)
Drop 2-point low to -50 for all.
Start with green, raise until you loose black, then decrease by 2.
Repeat with blue, and again with red.
If needed, lower IRE 5 luminance (not R/G/B). *Black is now set*
Now increase IRE 5 controls the same way and same order. *Maintain black level*
Now look at a 0.5% pattern, and raise until you see 0.5%
Once visible, go back to a 5% pattern, and balance (only raise!)
Raise to whatever gamma you want.

Now you have black, and can see 0.5% and 1% without lifting 5% to much... IMO :p
This also had the added benefit of cleaning up
 

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^^^ What he said. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ lol ;)
 

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In my case, when I started raising the luminance on 5 IRE too much, shadows started look a little nasty. I don't really want to push it past +10, so what I did is set it to +10 (which turned out to be a gamma of 2.234). Then, I used a 2.4 power law to set IRE 10-100. This is looking really nice so far. I wouldn't want to push IRE 5 too much because you really start to see some near-black nastiness.

Of course, you really need a meter to do all this. Without one, the ramp down method (starting at +10, +9, +8... or even +5, +4, +3...) works very well. On my TV, gamma was bumpy all the way across the grayscale (it was too dark in several places), so the meter really helped to flatten this out.
 

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For those who had elevated blacks like I did with gamma 2.2, even with a brightness of zero, I finally found the solution without having to adjust 2 point low. In the SM, there is a sub section call Sub B/C. You can get there via the ADJ button. The B/C stands for Brightness/Contrast. In that section, Brightness and Contrast are both set to 128. I lowered brightness to 127, and voila, my blacks no longer glow. In fact, I can raise brightness from 50 to 51, and 18 is easily visible and adjusting 5 IRE luminance to +2, makes 17 faintly visible and blacks remain black. Sure beats adjusting 2 point low to -20 for r, g and b, just to get the black floor correct. Adjusting the sub B/C actually allows for finer brightness control in the User Menu. I'm sure the same could be done with the Sub Contrast setting, but I did not mess with that. I'm one happy camper now!
 

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I just finished my calibration (couldn't of been done without Ted's calibration disc, thanks Ted!). dE average of .08 for gray scale.

OLED Light 29 (38.6 ftL = 132 nits)
Brightness 51
Contrast 84
Color 49 (using wide color gamut, color at 49 brings reds down to the correct luminance of Dci-P3. Didn't measure the other primaries, just wanted to lessen the sunburnt skin look)
H/V Sharpness 8
BT.1886 (averaged 2.38)
%5 (+1) gives me 2.22 gamma
%10 (-2) gives me 2.35

Goes to show, without a meter there's no way to tell what's going on with these sets. A +5 ramp down method would have done something super crazy for me. eBay and Amazon regularly have the i1 Display Pro for under $200. Like In.vincible said, my OOTB gamma was bumpy as hell and needed +/- adjustments all over the place.

 

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I just finished my calibration (couldn't of been done without Ted's calibration disc, thanks Ted!). dE average of .08 for gray scale.

OLED Light 29 (38.6 ftL = 132 nits)
Brightness 51
Contrast 84
Color 49 (using wide color gamut, color at 49 brings reds down to the correct luminance of Dci-P3. Didn't measure the other primaries, just wanted to lessen the sunburnt skin look)
H/V Sharpness 8
BT.1886 (averaged 2.38)
%5 (+1) gives me 2.22 gamma
%10 (-2) gives me 2.35

Goes to show, without a meter there's no way to tell what's going on with these sets. A +5 ramp down method would have done something super crazy for me. eBay and Amazon regularly have the i1 Display Pro for under $200. Like In.vincible said, my OOTB gamma was bumpy as hell and needed +/- adjustments all over the place.

Very nice :D Looks similar to my settings except for the the 5 IRE. Only doing +1 on mine would not lower gamma much, but I'm sure these panels vary. I also had to remove a lot of green which could explain why I had to raise luminance more to make up for that.

Have you watched much cable? I am still seeing a decent amount of artifacting near black. Blu-rays look great,though, so I think it's just content related. Cable is such garbage quality.
 

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For those who had elevated blacks like I did with gamma 2.2, even with a brightness of zero, I finally found the solution without having to adjust 2 point low. In the SM, there is a sub section call Sub B/C. You can get there via the ADJ button. The B/C stands for Brightness/Contrast. In that section, Brightness and Contrast are both set to 128. I lowered brightness to 127, and voila, my blacks no longer glow. In fact, I can raise brightness from 50 to 51, and 18 is easily visible and adjusting 5 IRE luminance to +2, makes 17 faintly visible and blacks remain black. Sure beats adjusting 2 point low to -20 for r, g and b, just to get the black floor correct. Adjusting the sub B/C actually allows for finer brightness control in the User Menu. I'm sure the same could be done with the Sub Contrast setting, but I did not mess with that. I'm one happy camper now!
the problem i see lowering it to 127,it lowers black levels for all gamma settings ,should i raise my dark room setting from 51 to 52
 

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Very nice :D Looks similar to my settings except for the the 5 IRE. Only doing +1 on mine would not lower gamma much, but I'm sure these panels vary. I also had to remove a lot of green which could explain why I had to raise luminance more to make up for that.

Have you watched much cable? I am still seeing a decent amount of artifacting near black. Blu-rays look great,though, so I think it's just content related. Cable is such garbage quality.
My green push was only slight, had to bump up blue +4 in most places and had to boost red quite a bit, +14 for 2-point low, and +5-7 between 25-65 IRE, etc. I just switched on the news now (first time watching cable) and it actually looks amazing. I need to catch up on Homeland at some point today, I hope the dark scenes hold up, I'll report back if something looks fishy.
 
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