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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm  /t/1397994/lightning-strike-blows-out-all-hdmi-ports/0_100#post_23689535


Not true. A properly design lightning protection system with appropriately located air terminals, appropriate downleads and grounding will do wonders. But it sure isn't what we think of as a surge protective system.


In any case, I don't think Tanner was referring to a direct strike. He would have a lot more to worry about than failed HDMI ports after a direct strike.

More precisely properly bonded. Even with a good grounding electrode system, the ground voltage can rise hundreds or thousands of volts. Effective bonding ensures the the other conductors rise with it so that the voltage difference between the conductors remains more or less nominal.


Proper bonding and grounding does not eliminate the possibility of damage from surges. It is only part of the solution. It won't do a thing for a L-N surge that comes in on the AC. Nor will it do anything for a surge that comes in on the center conductor of coax. You need a surge protective device to shunt the surge to ground,


FWIW surges do not magically disappear into the earth through the grounding electrode system. The surge has to return to its source. The earth is a crummy conductor. Often there is an easier return path for the surge.
Lightning strikes do not go through electrical lines or communication lines normally. What they will do is find the shortest return path to ground, and that can be anything from a tree root that has bumped against the house, buried low voltage lighting wiring, sprinkler wiring, outdoor receptacles, Copper water lines or Copper propane lines, Black iron piping.


There have been stories of people seeing during a lighting strike ball lightning or blue colored Plasma glow around the perimeter of a structure that has Copper sheeting between the foundation and wood framing, while the lightning strike is attempting to find a way to find a return path out of the structure.


Majority of the problems found with blown electronics or even telephones, comes down to improperly bonded or grounded communications or video circuits at the structure. That is why it is beaten to death, that any line coming into a structure needs to be bonded to a proper ground, whether it is a ground rod, or Ufer, or structural framing member rated for bonding for ground.


There have been many transmitters for tv & radio, along with radar stations taken out by direct lightning strikes, even though they were so well grounded, the Gas discharge system and ring ground system failed, or ground/bonding system was corroded, that the lightning surge went down the tower through the equipment taking everything out with it.


What is even better, is when you get lighting strikes at outdoor catv or telephone enclosures, which in turn look like a melted mass after the fire goes out, due to the bond to ground failed. Here is one pic of a direct lightning strike to a radio antenna http://ayellowspringsblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/like-bolt-out-of-blue.html Go to the paragraph labeled "...And no one noticed!", it is an example of a direct lightning strike to a incoming power line (480V Service Entrance) http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/suncoast.html The TVSS shunted the strike on the last example, so no damage, but on the first one with the radio transmitter, it took out everything in the transmitter (boards, equipment, antennas, wiring).


Lightning on its own, will do weird things, It will either not do any damage, and destroy something else nearby, or will continue on its path regardless of whatever measures you have taken to properly bond your communications lines and electrical lines, and find stuff to destroy. That is why there is always a push to install TVSS systems for both communications lines (catv, satellite, telephone, Internet (dsl, T1, Catv, Satellite, Ethernet)) and power service to a structure, along with making sure that it is also properly bonded to a good Earth ground, not just some bracket on a water pipe, meter pan, or some rod or wire just stuck in the ground.


Only way that stuff is getting blown through the HDMI lines, is that people are not going back and making sure that proper protection is in place for their incoming communication lines. Never trust the tech just going and thinking they know what they are doing when it comes to protecting the incoming communication lines, make sure that it is protected with the above stated.
 

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For further info on what is required for proper bonding of incoming CATV, and even Telephone or Satellite service, see
http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/tune-requirements-art-820 Also see http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/prevent-shocks-your-communications


Coaxial protection http://www.l-com.com/surge-protector-coaxial-protectors Telephone/DSL/T1 protectors http://www.l-com.com/surge-protector-telephone-dsl-t1-lightning-surge-protectors


The problem with the so called HDMI Surge protectors, is that you would have to have a ground bus for the line that attaches to the device, that would allow for at least a #8 wire from the bus to the Ground block, that attaches to the Ufer, Ground Rod, or structural ground point rated for bonding, which would never be found in a home, unless you have it designed for it, or have put in the system for the ground, which for most people they see as too costly, but not if you are putting in thousands of dollars for a Home Theater, or even for a LAN with an external feed to another structure, same if you have telephone or coax for Satellite or catv between structures, which those runs need to be bonded at both ends, not just one end.
 

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The exact thing happen to me on June 24. Everything to do with my cable company went out. It blew out four televisions, phone line, computer/Wifi and for some reason my garage door opener. My 60" HD flat screen that I purchased in February (four months before the strike) has been out to be fixed twice. They told me they had to replace the circuit board. It worked for one week. Then it went completely dead again. This time they are telling me it was the power board. It has been three weeks and now they want to bring it back to me. I don't know what to do - will it break again? How many times can "boards" be replaced? How many boards are in these televisions? I had a great 60" television before the strike. Also, the lightning strike "fried" the cable line in my bedroom. It is my responsibility to have an electrician come in and run a new cable wire. I had this done and still cannot receive a signal for the new television. A cable company tech is coming here again (5th time) to check the problem. This is a homeowners insurance claim and I'd think they are spending more money to fix my 60" televison rather than give me a new television. Comments/thoughts anyone..........
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxxiepgmailcom  /t/1397994/lightning-strike-blows-out-all-hdmi-ports/30#post_23703029


The exact thing happen to me on June 24. Everything to do with my cable company went out. It blew out four televisions, phone line, computer/Wifi and for some reason my garage door opener. My 60" HD flat screen that I purchased in February (four months before the strike) has been out to be fixed twice.
Cable coax is a nice earth ground and can provide a return path for lightning and power surges. Storm damage tends to be localized to one leg of your incoming power, hence half the house circuits.
Quote:
They told me they had to replace the circuit board. It worked for one week. Then it went completely dead again. This time they are telling me it was the power board. It has been three weeks and now they want to bring it back to me. I don't know what to do - will it break again? How many times can "boards" be replaced? How many boards are in these televisions? I had a great 60" television before the strike.
Boards can be replaced as long as replacement boards exist (~3-5 years then only rebuilds will be available) and a warranty that covers the cost. After that and a new TV will be in the works. Boards are not generally "repairable" in the traditional sense and replacement is usually the only fix possible. I always advised customers to hold off submitting a claim for a couple of weeks in case something like this happens. Often the Insurance company will complicate the second claim, saying it is a new incident. (and a new deductible)
Quote:
Also, the lightning strike "fried" the cable line in my bedroom. It is my responsibility to have an electrician come in and run a new cable wire. I had this done and still cannot receive a signal for the new television. A cable company tech is coming here again (5th time) to check the problem.
In most cases, an electrician is not required for low voltage work. (depends on code) and electricians are a generally poor choice for A/V work unless they have a specialty division devoted to home entertainment installations.
Quote:
This is a homeowners insurance claim and I'd think they are spending more money to fix my 60" televison rather than give me a new television. Comments/thoughts anyone..........
Insurance companies have internal rules for repair vs replacement that seems to run in cycles. The TV service company needs to compare repair cost to TV replacement cost, not original purchase price. 50/60 percent of replacement cost was my tipping point on repairs in my shop. More than that and I declared the TV "unrepairable", no equivocation, no outrageous estimate, just "not economically repairable".


Short story: I once did a $100 repair on a VCR after a lightning strike. A few months later another storm took it out again but with even more damage. The customer insisted on repair, which made no sense because the cost was more than replacement, (but less than original price) until he finally told me it was the insurance company directing the repair. A simple "not repairable" got the customer a new machine. Often TV shops work towards their own well being, not the customer's.
 

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A lightning strike here in the lightning capital of the U.S. on Saturday burned out a coax running from the lightning arrester to inside the house and its connector, then knocked out 3 signal splitters along the line. So I lost Verizon FIOS and signals from my outdoor antenna array. Luckily no equipment was damaged. The arrestor has two connectors I could just switch to the other connector. It was one of those hearing thunder and seeing the lightning at the same time. The Channel Master pre-amp at the antenna was not affected nor its power supply. So I was lucky all around.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozey45  /t/1397994/lightning-strike-blows-out-all-hdmi-ports/0_100#post_23721370


A lightning strike here in the lightning capital of the U.S. on Saturday burned out a coax running from the lightning arrester to inside the house and its connector, then knocked out 3 signal splitters along the line. So I lost Verizon FIOS and signals from my outdoor antenna array. Luckily no equipment was damaged. The arrestor has two connectors I could just switch to the other connector. It was one of those hearing thunder and seeing the lightning at the same time. The Channel Master pre-amp at the antenna was not affected nor its power supply. So I was lucky all around.
Call yourself lucky. Hopefully Verizon did not cry when they had to come replace the ONT and check all the lines, etc.. Bad thing about your area, is that there is Limestone about 20-80 inches under the sandyLoamy soil in your area (looking at the soil report (page 8) at http://soildatamart.nrcs.usda.gov/manuscripts/FL101/0/pasco.pdf ). Not good for grounding systems.
 

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Hi all.

I was just reading this and see it's pretty old, but thought I would tell you my experience. Yes, surges and Lighting strikes can come through your cable and damage the HDMI on your cable box, TV, etc. It can also damage those items enough to blow the boards and render the cable Box, TV, Computer, routers useless. What I found was we had a lighting hit, and must have been pretty bad, that went through our cable. The HDMI's on the cable box and TV were damaged. Surprisingly, the HDMI cables were not damaged. I had the cable box replaced and used a different HDMI on the TV. All was goo. Soon afterward, we were sitting in our house and "crack", another hit. This time it took out all electronics hooked to the TV cable. I had the TV Cable guy out and he replaced the outside box, and two cable boxes in the house. After the cable guy left, I went outside to look over what he did, and found that the ground cable had been completely burned though and was just sitting on the ground rod connection. My thoughts are the first hit fried the ground wire, and on the second hit, there was no ground at all. I'm currently working to repair/replace my electronics ($$$) and was wondering if you tried repairs and if successful. Thanks.

  
 

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A fairly high voltage can be induced in conductors near a strike and passed on to connected equipment. I had that happen to a phone and answering system, a TV distribution amplifier connected to an attic garage TV antenna, and the connected equipment.

 

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I had a similar experience with all HDMI ports blowing on 3 TVs from a lightning strike. All other ports worked on PVR decorders and tvs. The lighning hit my wifi antenna and fried my network and many devices like switches attached to it. Strangely it only fried 1 or 2 network cables the rest are working and only my main computer lots its network card (mobo) and pro sound card.

I think when Lightning strikes directly the electromagnetism can become so strong that even devices that arent plugged in can be affected with sensitive ports such as HDMI.


I had a 3rd TV about 30 meters away that took HDMI damage that was not connected to the network and even though it switched on, it lost its HDMI ports and so did the connected PVR and Media player. Im waiting for the insurance quote right now, house looking like it has been robbed.


Gabor
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by noyesyinsey  /t/1397994/lightning-strike-blows-out-all-hdmi-ports/30#post_23956128


A fairly high voltage can be induced in conductors near a strike and passed on to connected equipment.
Correct. Lightning can have millions of Volts of potential, and millions of Amperes of current, and can radiate electromagnetic energy in a frequency range that's literally "from DC to daylight" and beyond. The RF energy from a lightning strike can be inductively or capacitively coupled to any nearby conductor, including house wiring of all types. And once the energy is transferred, it can travel for long distances before dissipating.


A lightning strike down the street from you can run through power lines, phone lines and/or cable TV lines, and go up into your house and destroy low voltage gear like home theater equipment. No surge protector can cope with that. As TorTorden said, unplugging your gear before storms get close is often the best way to save it from damage. BTW, that means all connections: AC, cable/antenna, phone/Internet, HDMI...anything that can act as an antenna for lightning.
 

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I live in the Lightning capital of the world.  The Johannesburg area in South Africa.

 

I regularly have clients and my own equipments HDMI boards taken out by Lightning, EVEN WHEN THE EQUIPMENT IS UNPLUGGED FROM POWER.

 

The cause is an Electro Magnetic Pulse  induced into long runs of HDMI cable, usually connecting Receivers to Projectors and TV's.

 

Two solutions I have just found are

1. Fitting a "Vision TC2 HDMI Repeater" to each "long run" HDMI cable, as it has a ESD protection.

2. Fitting the Ethereal HDMI


 

NO ! I'm not their rep.  I just use the equipment.

 

John
HDMI™ SURGE PROTECTOR


Stock No. HDM-SP


• Model: HDM-SP

• Inline HDMI Surge Protector
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnesch  /t/1397994/lightning-strike-blows-out-all-hdmi-ports/30#post_24001841


I regularly have clients and my own equipments HDMI boards taken out by Lightning, EVEN WHEN THE EQUIPMENT IS UNPLUGGED FROM POWER.
Just unplugging the power is insufficient. All conductive paths, including cable and satellite feeds, network cables, grounds, etc. to all connected gear have to be unplugged or protected.
Quote:
The cause is an Electro Magnetic Pulse  induced into long runs of HDMI cable, usually connecting Receivers to Projectors and TV's.
While it is possible for a close lightning strike to induce a damaging voltage depending on the loop area of a cable, it is much more likely that the damage is due to another source.
Quote:
1. ...Vision TC2 HDMI Repeater...

2. ...Ethereal HDMI Surge Protector
HDMI surge protection does not exist. Any practical surge protection device would have enough capacitance (not much is required) to degrade the performance of the link enough to be noticeable. These devices use ESD protection chips similar to those which may already be in your equipment. They cannot handle the current of a surge.


FWIW I think texasbrit is right. From what I have read, tropical Africa is the lightning capital of the world.
 

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Quote:
 HDMI surge protection does not exist. Any practical surge protection device would have enough capacitance (not much is required) to degrade the performance of the link enough to be noticeable. These devices use ESD protection chips similar to those which may already be in your equipment. They cannot handle the current of a surge.
 

Well, there is some surge protector in the market.

One of them it's my HDMI Guard. NO equipment can survive DIRECT strike. But for lightning's jolts remains that coming to your delicate equipment it's more than enough to protect it.
 



This is my protector which have superior characteristic.

 

Those components inside the HDMI protectors aren't exsist in your TV system. As a LCD technician I can tell you that the idea to make this device came after many TVs that I saw and try to fix, simply it DON'T have such devices inside.

 

Tal
 

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I am not surprised you saw many TVs with damaged HDMI ports. The dirty little secret the manufactures don't tell consumers is that static discharge from something as seemingly innocuous as connecting a cable can damage a HDMI port, let alone a surge from a connected device. Early sets with HDMI had no protection. As I understand it, most sets, at least those marketed in the USA, by now have ESD protection if only to keep down warranty costs. I guess it is possible that low end manufacturers omit it, or higher end manufacturers omit it in certain markets.


So what is special about this device? What components do you use that can handle the surge current without adding enough capacitance to disrupt the HDMI signal? My guess it uses one of the chips with multiple clamping devices that provide pretty good ESD protection and some, if minimal, surge protection.


As I read them, the ratings you published for your device indicate that it has reasonable ESD protection but its ability to handle surge current is inadequate to protect against the kinds of surges frequently damaging equipment connected to cable boxes. IOW it really isn't a true surge protector. If so, it wouldn't be the first. But your device does have an advantage, it is cheaper than competing devices claiming similar capabilities.
 

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Hi Colm

 

About TV manufacturers I have encounter Sony, LG, Samsung and many high / low end LCDs. all of them didn't have any protection.

 

The idea that behind my product is of course to give more protection against ESD & surges as long the protector can handle.

 

Most of the surges and spikes are absorbed by the cable networks  and most of it reduced in the way. what is left go directly to the sat / cable receiver and from there directly to HDMI port output and to the HDMI port input of the LCD / HT Amplifier.

 

I have tested my protector almost at it maximum values as the device manufacturer declare, and I was more than happy with results.

 

So, if those spikes aren't exceed  +/- 20KV or other values of the HDMI protector. I know for sure it can help protect any HDMI equipment easily. furthermore, the device can protect many times if not exposed to more than it's limited values.
 

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We were away during an electrical storm earlier this week but returned home to a blown Comcast cable splitter, a Sony BDP-S390 Blu-ray player that won't power on and an Epson 8350 projector that won't recognize any HDMI inputs (but seems fine otherwise).
The Square-D whole-house surge suppressor is not blown and all A/V equipment in the theater gets power through a Panamax 5100 connected to an APS Line-R 1200. The cable is connected to only the Comcast DVR in the bedroom and the modem in the study, and the Blu-ray player is connected through the router in the A/V rack, a switch and the router in the study which are all fine, so it's hard to understand how HDMI was affected if not via induction.




Sounds similar to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by whinnycritter  /t/1331747/hdmi-surge-suppression#post_23566840


I'm now dealing with the second HDMI lightning damage within 3 years. Fortunately, I'm a technician with 45 years experience, so I'm able to replace the HDMI interface chip in the TV again. This time it also took out the HDMI port on my DISH receiver. I've also lost several HDMI switches. NOTHING is getting to my equipment by way of the power line! I have a whole-house arrester on the pole, below the meter, then a Tripp Lite outlet box that boasts $50,000 guarantee for connected equipment, then a Topaz sine-wave UPS, then another Tripp Lite, then another outlet strip with surge suppression. But here's the deal. A very close lightning strike produces an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that will induce thousands or even tens of thousands of volts into ANY nearby length of wire. In addition to HDMI ports, I've also lost the PS2 port on a computer motherboard, along with the connected KVM switch, several ethernet ports, and an expensive video server. So, what can be done? You can start by using the shortest possible cables. Monoprice has HDMI cables as short as one and a half feet, and they have ferrite cores at each end (which may not help, but can't hurt). Second, you can use a sacrificial device, such as an HDMI switch or an extender/booster. Let the circuitry in these cheap (less than $20) devices take the hit. With luck, they won't pass the spike through to your expensive equipment. I'm not sure whether the power available on HDMI will handle multiple devices, but I'm going to give it a try and will post my results here. As for the surge protection built into HDMI ports, yes, these chips do have it, but the problem is not just volts, but energy. That's volts X amps X time. The chips will protect against fairly high voltage, but not many amps, or not many microseconds. That's fine for static discharge, but lighting induced surges involve a LOT of energy, that can overwhelm the protection that can be built into a chip. MOV's that are used in outlet strips can handle it, but they have lots of capacitance, and cannot be used with high-frequency signal lines, as that capacitance will act as a short circuit to those frequencies. As for the available HDMI surge supressors, as yet the price is just too high for me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmsam  /t/1397994/lightning-strike-blows-out-all-hdmi-ports/30#post_24676550


We were away during an electrical storm earlier this week but returned home to a blown Comcast cable splitter, a BDP-S390 BluRay player that won't power on and an Epson 8350 projector that won't recognize any HDMI inputs (but seems fine otherwise).
The Square-D whole-house surge suppressor is not blown and all A/V equipment gets power through a Panamax 5100 connected to an APS Line-R 1200. The cable is connected to only the Comcast receiver in the bedroom and the modem in the study, and the Blu-ray player is connected through the router in the A/V rack, a switch and the router in the study, so it's hard to understand how HDMI was affected.

For me it was through the cable too. I had basically the same thing - a comcast cable receiver connected HDMI to an AV Receiver, which was also connected to an EPSON 8350 and a PS3. I believe the surge went through the cable and out through the HDMI of the comcast receiver, and traveled through the AV Receiver HDMI ports to whatever was connected. All of them lost HDMI access. I guess those HDMI ports are not build to take much of a surge.


It actually effected 3 rooms for me. Only equipment that survived was in my house was a Sharp Aquos LCD TV - so I guess they much have better quality ports.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorTorden  /t/1397994/lightning-strike-blows-out-all-hdmi-ports/30#post_23976863


And some people think I'm nuts for disconnecting my AV equipment during thunderstorms., :p
 

I had coworkers that think you and I are crazy.

 

If I hear of approaching lightning, or if I am away from home and there is risk of lightning, equipment gets powered off, phone cord to answering machine gets unplugged, power strips and UPSes get unplugged, and coax lines are disconnected. Others in the neighborhood have lost TVs and DVRs, but so far I haven't.

 

My coworkers tell me that, outside of several thousand dollars, nothing can protect from a direct strike. However, as some have stated in this very thread, it doesn't have to strike your house to do damage to your (and Comcast's) equipment; a strike a few houses down can be just as destructive if the surge comes through the phone line, coax, or the power lines.
 
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