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Discussion Starter #1
From a recent article in Businessweek: "There's no denying it: HDTV's promise is dead. And no act of God -- or Congress -- is going to bring it back. Instead, the government needs to focus on making sure broadcasters return the spectrum they were given for free to develop HDTV. The liberation of this spectrum is now key to the development of "third-generation" wireless networks. All that spectrum space should be freed as soon as possible for bidding by new technologies, such as nascent 3G wireless networks, which both covet it and are willing to pay handsomely."


Are you starting to get it? The vast majority of the nation's business powers hope that HDTV dies and that the free digital spectrum, previously allotted to the nation's 1,600 TV broadcasters, be returned and, then, auctioned for 3G cell-phone usage. That's why (behind the scenes) they have allowed the deficient 8-VSB to remain as our OTA standard even though the rest of the world has tested it, determined it's a deficient (multipath-virus infected) system and discarded 8-VSB much as the Brits are killing off their cattle.


Businessweek believes that one solution is to require every CE company to include an 8-VSB receiver (encoder/decoder) in every new TV sold in the US. Not a chance. Not one CE company has figured out how to manufacture an 8-VSB receiver that is free of multipath problems and few have even attempted to include a small portion of their HDTVs to include a decoder. Those that have have lost millions in product returns (as can be attested on here).


What I can't understand is why all the 1,600 local broadcasters (other than those owned by the major networks who have other agendas in mind) haven't joined Sinclair and Paxson in the call to discard 8-VSB in favor of more advanced and workable OTA transmission technology. Only more advanced and workable technology will assure that OTA HDTV becomes a reality for all Americans.
 

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I understand your concerns. But perhaps there is another underlying objective here for some of those who oppose the 8-VSB standard.

Just stop and think that if they pull 8-VSB in favor of another standard. This will greatly reduce if not kill HDTV. Stop and think of all of those early HDTV adpators that will be turned away. Remember they are the reason HDTV has made this far. Another thing. I read somewhere that it would delay HDTV by at least another 3 to 4 years with testing, Stations would need to change their transmitters and not to mention the fall out that this will have with CE industry.

Even then their is no garantee that another standard will work under all field conditions.

To be honest. The only viable way for HDTV to succeed is cable. But that's another story.
 

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Thank you, Bob, for that indepth and original analysis of copy that's already been discussed at length on this forum. However, to be fair, no less an authority than the hallowed Joe Kane has also raised reservations about 8-VSB in the March/April issue of The Perfect Vision. But, don't look for a sudden interest in shifting the broadcast standard to your vaunted COFDM anytime soon. It suffers, too, as admitted by European and Asian broadcast engineers already knee-deep in their own version of digital video quagmire. I'm beginning to suspect that cold fusion will be in general useage as a power source prior to the widespread adoption of OTA digital TV, regardless of the COFDM/8-VSB debate that will not die. To put it another way, Yogi Berra may have been wrong when he said, "If you come to a fork in the road, take it." Maybe, this "fork" really just disguises a "dead end". The Fall, 2001 network lineup should be telling.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Agree that both cable and DBS are viable HDTV delivery-vehicle options. Both vehicles should find profitable sources of income from delivering HDTV programming.


My concern, however, is OTA HDTV to the rest of America. Given that our Federal government will receive a minimum of $50 billion in auctions of the to-be-returned, analog, TV bandwidth to the cell-phone companies, seems logical that the Feds could allocate about 10% of this amount to subsidize HDTV STBs for every American household. With an average cost of $100 for a digital STB, the Feds could subsidize 50% for a total cost of $5 billion for 100 million US households. That's how they are, basically, doing it in Italy (however, Italians are upgrading to digital with a more advanced and workable OTA transmission system than 8-VSB).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No argument here about the eventuality of other DTV/Internet transmission modes that will compete with OTA DTV broadcasters. My question is why are the nation's 1,600 local TV broadcasters not joining Sinclair and Paxson in the immediate request for the US to discard 8-VSB.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Mark Richer, Executive Director of the ATSC, exemplifies the problem. He states, "Recent studies have proven that the 8VSB modulation system is clearly the best choice for broadcasters. Still, the need for better receivers and -- possibly -- enhancements to the transmitted signal itself have been identified as an important area for further study."


On the one hand he defends the selection of 8-VSB by the ATSC and FCC, and, on the other hand, he requests that COFDM features be included in a new OTA digital transmission standard.


Takes a big man to say, "We were wrong". Appears that Mark follows Bob Graves, Reed Hundt, etc. down the road to certain death of OTA HDTV for all Americans.
 

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I believe Congress' intent on auctioning off spectrum was to pay down the national debt towards a surplus in the national budget. Not to subsidize a national program of a chicken in every pot and an STB on top of every TV... I lean towards the notion that this money is not gov'mnt money, but taxpayer money, and to that end, it should be within the province of the taxpayers to determine how a surplus is spent, whether for an STB, the kids' education, or a new Cuisinart, not more draconian gov'mnt fiat...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I read you Ray but consider this:


1. The Feds plan to auction the analog TV spectrum beginning in September but which cell-phone company wants to pay big bucks for the spectrum when there is no assurance that it will become available within the 2006 projected date?


2. The Italians, for one, have figured out a solution. They selected a robust OTA transmission standard and are providing subsidies to assure that every Italian family be able to convert to DTV STBs by 2006.


3. By guaranteeing the availability of the spectrum to the 3G cell-phone companies in the year 2006 (versus strung out for about a decade more), the value of the spectrum increases about 5 fold. Looking at what the Europeans got for their spectrum auctions, appears that the US could get approximately $100 billion of income from similar auctions PROVIDED the US can guarantee a quick start-up-date.


Thus, selecting a workable OTA transmission standard and subsidizing digital STBs, appears to be a win/win/win deal for all....
 

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Well I see that Bob is at it again!

COFDM/8-VSB debate may continue, but in the US the standard has been set to 8-VSB, dont you guys ever give up?

Just use the search feature on this AVS Forum for (COFDM/8-VSB) thats enough reading for the next millenium, and maybe by then the standard will change, and not before, and maybe by then the 8track to CD syndrom will kick in.

Quote:
Originally posted by wanthdtv:
But perhaps there is another underlying objective here for some of those who oppose the 8-VSB standard. Just stop and think that if they pull 8-VSB in favor of another standard. This will greatly reduce if not kill HDTV. Stop and think of all of those early HDTV adpators that will be turned away. Remember they are the reason HDTV has made this far.
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Utne http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/tongue.gif osted 02-18-2001 08:22 PM
My interests were (and remain) strictly as an investor in new technology.
Quote:
Originally posted by Wendell R. Breland posted 02-18-2001 08:22 PM
I do not believe investors should be telling anyone what electronics technology they should be using. I will not be telling investors had to invest their money.
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Graphics

STOP DVI/HDCP AND DFAST


 

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Discussion Starter #10
"but in the US the standard has been set to 8-VSB"


It's been tried for more than ten years and still doesn't work properly. The choice is either to attempt to make it work during another decade or two (and, at the same time, forgo the analog TV station spectrum auctions) or discard it in favor of a system that works, today. Nothing else makes any sense....
 

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Like Mad Cow Disease


Is that what your obsession with COFDM is like? ;-)


I wish they picked COFDM too because it has better indoor reception and can be used in mobile applications. However, the FCC has stuck to its guns and said 8VSB is the law of the land. So live with it. It does work as many people here do receive terrestrial HDTV.
 

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I think they should require every 3G phone to be equipped with an HDTV reciever.


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Ken Elliott
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for the "Toms" of the USA who have an open mind and who do not fear controversial debates. To you I reach.


[This message has been edited by Bob Utne (edited 03-25-2001).]
 

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Tom,

Quote:
Originally posted by TOM KELLY:
I for one will read post on 8vsb vs anything. Makes me more interested on whats going on. Thank you all for an interesting debate.
I assume that you are aware that the 8VSB vs (?) has been put to rest by the FCC, NAB, and MSTV. So for us in the USA there is nothing to debate.


The forum owners has told the members here that the AVSF was not to be used for any more 8VSB VS COFDM debates. Most have honored that request but Bob Utne has not honored that request. I find it surprising they have not blocked his posting on the AVSF.


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Wendell

Technical Services Supervisor

MAETV
 

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Both bob's (utne and [email protected] (the one who had the good sense to leave this forum) ) are fanatics in the worst sense of the word. They know only one thing, that being their own agenda. Nothing else matters to them. They will lie, distort the truth, post innumerable times saying the same thing, etc. They are despicable because of their fanaticism and do nothing to bring support to their cause because of their fanaticism. If anything, both bobs have probably done more to hurt their cause because of their attitude and modus operandi. Right now, I associate cofdm with these two bobs. These two bobs are very bad. And therefore cofdm is a very bad thing. It's that simple to me.



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(The original Jerry G, not the new member named Jerry_G)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Utne:
Nothing else makes any sense....
I have read most of all your arguments, all trying to guide most who read it to your way of thinking. It's over, your COFDM issue is DOA, live with what the rest here are ENJOYING. Iam really sorry about your investments in COFDM technology.

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Graphics

STOP DVI/HDCP AND DFAST


 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Graphics:
I have read most of all your arguments, all trying to guide most who read it to your way of thinking. It's over, your COFDM issue is DOA, live with what the rest here are ENJOYING.....
Here, Here!


Rick

 
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