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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a $400 that needs to be spent
. I've been keeping my eye on several line array builds such as reece's recent build. I currently have energy rc-10s as my mains in a garage turned dedicated home theater and they sound great to ears, however I want something bigger, better, and louder for my medium/large sized room. I want to experiment and see what I can build with ~$200 in parts per speaker (wood excluded). what I want is a pair of 8ohm line arrays and size is of no concern to me. I am willing to try nearly anything if it will get me better results and am looking for ideas and recommendations. I am open to absolutely any suggestions....
 

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I would keep reading Reece's thread. He has some very smart guys helping him. If Reece ,Goku or myself can figure out how to give them the graphs they need some custom crossovers will be built.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The room is a square box that was once a garage...I was thinking about something like that but if I would use a bunch of woofers, what would produce the highs? The speakers could be placed in the corners.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by iJC /forum/post/18307040


The room is a square box that was once a garage...I was thinking about something like that but if I would use a bunch of woofers, what would produce the highs? The speakers could be placed in the corners.

I saw a build over on Parts express where they used the corners of the room, and a bunch of full range drivers. I think the cost was considerably more than your budget for this pair.


Do you have a sub?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by iJC /forum/post/18306835


I have a $400 that needs to be spent
. I've been keeping my eye on several line array builds such as reece's recent build. I currently have energy rc-10s as my mains in a garage turned dedicated home theater and they sound great to ears, however I want something bigger, better, and louder for my medium/large sized room. I want to experiment and see what I can build with ~$200 in parts per speaker (wood excluded). what I want is a pair of 8ohm line arrays and size is of no concern to me. I am willing to try nearly anything if it will get me better results and am looking for ideas and recommendations. I am open to absolutely any suggestions....

Real line arrays
look like this.
http://www.selahaudio.com/id198.html


Where the bottom picture uses something similar to the Dayton PT2 planar

tweeter ($30? ea in bulk).


The midrange choices aren't the concern, just about any can be used, the

tweeter is the problem if you want to make a real line array.


Since the tweeter array throws people off budget they end up designing

something with a midrange array mated to a single tweeter and this speaker

is more like a hybrid speaker not true line array. It will have it's own personality and you can live with it, but it may not be a true representation.


These line arrays as shown in the link aren't cheap. If you were to build

something like the one shown at the bottom of the link you may require

to double your budget assuming you use $30 tweeters and $10-15 midranges

(excluding materials and labor costs).


You can cheat and use the center horn tweeter as some people have done

as it will be a big upgrade from your existing RC10's in SPL and I'll bet it would

sound better in general due to the lower distortion from the array. Clone, copy or modify the existing array builds you have seen recently.
 

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My original quest was for $400. Then i realized i'd need $500 to make it happen now its been $550 and climbing haha. Your budget should be somewhat flexible and not put you in any sort of financial turmoil. I always set my budgets around what i feel my wife wont notice lol! But if your wanting to do something similar to mine and keep the cost down. Look into some of the Jamo buyouts. Its been a while since i looked since i went with the peerless (pretty good sounding woofer if i may so). But there were a few nice otions in the $5-$8 raneg pr driver when bought in bulk. Youll need a 4ohm speaker if you plaan to use 8 wired for 8ohm load. And you can do a 6ohm speaker's if you want to wire for a 6ohm load which your receiver should be able to power. Its an odd resistance i know but i was considering due to the lack of drivers available in my price range and the SLA's and TLAH's design's are wired for this 6ohm load and work decently. I went for 8ohm's so in the future i can upgrade to seperate amplifiers and rewire for 2ohm and tap into alot of extra sensitivity. But look into the woofers you dont need to spend as much as i did but hurry up the choice's are getting scarce for the under $10 per drive range! And you can use the selenium d220ti CD which already has x-overs with HF compensation built for it so you could copy that from the econowave x-over designs. Or you could use the DE-10 compression driver which is also about $40 per + price of waveguide. Lots of options man i may have been searching for upwards of 2 months (most of it on my own before i turned for help) on drivers before i decided on the peerless!
 

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Given the budget constraints of the OP and others like Reecew i think the Econowave and it's variants are a much more economical choice with excellent performance/$$ ratio and physically easier to integrate into a space....which with arrays.....near and far field positioning present quite different responses. Thy...while not talking you out of arrays, might be politely suggesting that a true 'budget' array doesn't really exist.
 

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Nice car, lot of work to make it so, but 1 horse just isn't enough
 

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Im going to have to build an econowave setup so i can compare the 2, my array and them. Aside from the econowaves using better driver's which cost i think $500 per so $1k total for 2. I think id take my chances with the array and is obviously what i did. I think i did it because i knew i could fall back on the econowave design a trusty but worthy design. Now i know theyve been messing with a combo for this driver http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-591 . The only problem is the good WG's all dwarf the 10" woofer and it will look goofy IMO. But who am i just some BUM lol. But i think it would be cool to use the 10.25" conical WG from QSC like i did in my array with that woofer. But if your wanting to experiment and try something new and an array of sorts is what you want go for it man. But if you want something thats been tried and true by a bunch of yahoo's then the econowave's IMO are most definitely your best bet. I dont think thylantyr is trying to tlak him out of building it. He most definitely didnt talk me out of it, so it must have some potential!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reecew /forum/post/18308373


But if you want something thats been tried and true by a bunch of yahoo's then the econowave's IMO are most definitely your best bet.

I think you'd better define that term.



Econowave Standard Kit is $400 a pair; half that if you use roadkill for the bottom end.


Econowave Deluxe Kit is $860 a pair and runs with the big boys.


Use Deltalite II and knock $100 off that.


You've gotta be using truly premium components to get over $1000.


[We're working through a bunch of options in between....
]
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thylantyr /forum/post/18307539


Real line arrays
look like this.
http://www.selahaudio.com/id198.html


Where the bottom picture uses something similar to the Dayton PT2 planar

tweeter ($30? ea in bulk).


The midrange choices aren't the concern, just about any can be used, the

tweeter is the problem if you want to make a real line array.


Since the tweeter array throws people off budget they end up designing

something with a midrange array mated to a single tweeter and this speaker

is more like a hybrid speaker not true line array. It will have it's own personality and you can live with it, but it may not be a true representation.

These line arrays as shown in the link aren't cheap. If you were to build

something like the one shown at the bottom of the link you may require

to double your budget assuming you use $30 tweeters and $10-15 midranges

(excluding materials and labor costs).



You can cheat and use the center horn tweeter as some people have done

as it will be a big upgrade from your existing RC10's in SPL and I'll bet it would

sound better in general due to the lower distortion from the array. Clone, copy or modify the existing array builds you have seen recently.

Definitely not cheap if they have Neopro5is @ $300 a pop
I have 5 of them now again waiting for a new project....
 

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Well, there's typically two approaches to designing line arrays. The first is to use lots of very high end parts, resulting in a truly spectacular end product. *Nods to Thy.


The second is to find the best bargain bin components out there. It won't be the same quality as #1 (obviously), but even super cheap parts will benefit greatly from array treatment. The current crowd favorite is the JVC/Onkyo combo:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=269-482

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Onk....c0.m270.l1313


Although it would seem like the Onkyos are running out--they used to ship in lots of up to 200! Many people have positively reviewed the combo, but unfortunately no one with a solid audiophile name. Well, you could order enough drivers for two speakers for something like $150
.


The econowave is not a bad way to go either. Well proven, gobs of support, and just within your price range
.


EDIT:


I am still waiting for someone to build a huge array out of these bad boys, though:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...&vReviewShow=1
 

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I am playing around with a design for a budget line array hybrid.


I will share this info not to hijack, but in hopes of coming up with a plan we could both use.


My budget per L/R front channels is very similar to yours.


I have looked a ton at PE for inspiration and I have even looked at the speakers that starkiller showed in his thread.


I came up with two designs, both of them 8ft high and around 1 foot wide.


The first was:


ten of these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=299-060


for $112


9 of these http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...&vReviewShow=1


for $23


and 2 tweeters http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=270-102


for $19


Grand total before crossover of $154


Then I saw reecew's thread and I put some different thoughts into play.


I use my speakers for two main reasons:



1) HT use is 90% and I love a dynamic experience.


2) PS3, yes I'm 42 and I have a rockband addiction.


My room is large in an unfinished basement that is 15x40 with 10 foot ceilings and almost the same volume of space unused with furnace area and a gym.


HUGE volume to make dynamic.


I have read many threads and BFM videos, you name it.


I am thinking of a hybrid of a hybrid.


Eight foot tall cabinet with 12 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=299-061


5mm Xmas looks good for the midbass I am requiring, by using 12 at 12ohm I think it would be easy to manipulate out a decent load for my Accurus A200x3 amp to work well.


Now I have two different heights in which I need good treble. One is at around 36 inches for seated height the other is around ear level when standing and er um singing RB



So I thought about 4 tweeters space from 60" down to 24" at 12 inch intervals...give or take just need to fill 24" to 72" with treble.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...number=279-179



Total price before crossovers $185.00


I am thinking instead of ripping up the boards with three or 4 line array hybrid threads, can someone look at this and give all of us some feedback?


I will build in 2 weeks if we can get it sorted.


I am looking at using the same drivers in two rear towers same spec as these , two sides at 50% size horizontally mounted and a center.


But lets just look at this for now?


Pleaseeeeeee



Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My goal in this is to experiment to see what a low budget array can get me. I will be using a subwoofer with these so low extension is not a problem since I will probably be crossing over at 80hz as I currently am with my rc-10s. I guess I could use a bunch of full range drivers or some buyout midwoofers with a couple of horns to see how that comes out. I defenitely at least want to try some kind of array out to see if I will be pleased with the results and if not I can always return the parts and try an econowave or save up some money and go with the statements.
 

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Same crossover point I am looking at and i would bet similar goals
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

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Fellas, before you get too excited about the widely spaced tweeters....I'd be veeerrry very leery of the potential combing effect if may have on the treble. You really want to pack the sources as close to each other as is possible. This is, of course, unless you have super directional tweets, are using power shaping, or curve the baffle.


I would avoid the piezo's. They tend to have rough frequency responses. In their intended application (pro sound) they are typically heavily EQ'd, and so it's not an issue. But for us, that would be an undue PITA.
 

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Nice looking drivers. Im am drawing a blank here atm as to what the issues is technically called. Ive read several places you can run into issues with having too much spacing inbetween the tweeters. The center to center spacing needs to be as close as possible together ie: the frames touching or as close to allow for sufficent mounting. This is why ribbons or planars are prefered due to something special (again drawing a blank or what its called) about C2C spacing not being an issue. Definitely let me know what you come up with! I seriously have started something i probably shouldnt lol. I am already wanting to find a different combo where i can use multiple atleast 8 to 12 tweeters and see what i can get lol.


But ive personally heard the those JVC 3x5's in a SLA alignment with the onkyo tweets and it sounded great. For $40 per tower after x-over you cant go wrong at all. Not even $400-$500 per towers im familiar with sound better than those did.
 
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