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#2 ·
Check out "The Black Box" being shown at CES alongside Rockport Technology and their speakers. Currently possibly best sounding digital available - so sayeth Andy Payor of Rockport.
 
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#6 ·
Wow!
 
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#8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/15468244


Yes, unless the component it applying some type of processing.




No? So how would the 0's and 1's be different from product to product?
Click to expand...

It's not the ones and zeros that change (although there are read errors at times), but there are varied methods and components used that produce different analog results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...alog_converter
 
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#10 ·
we had a brief discussion here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...783&highlight=



Eventually I demo'd the klimax and after reading all those raving tests my expectations were sky-rocketing. the product itself is a stunner, but unfortunately the sound didnt meet those expectations (in my setup) nor did the user interface, the one that comes with it is an insult to anyone who remotely understands aesthetics, it might be better by now though.


the differences to my oldish modified cd player (in the class of like a levinson 390) were there, more stable presentation, sharper, more fluid in a sense that it sounded less 'clocked', but it was also lifted up in frequency if that makes sense, like more mid definition and lifted highs, less bass heft. but overall the difference wasnt even in near relation to the costs. here is the killer: my wife asked me several times if I can hear a difference switching back and forth.


because i like well defined and weighty bass I couldnt name a clear winner despite hearing differences in slight favour of the DS. my old player did bass well, however the DS is probably better from there on. To be fair I have to say that we didnt use the same interconnects , linn dealer brought their linn cables which im not familiar with against my well run in straightwire crescendos. Also I had the feeling the klimax and/or the cables weren't run in or warmed up properly, it sounded a little forward to my ears during this short visit.


Overall, during this test, to me at least the difference sounded like upgrading to a better interconnect but not like switching to a much superior product like all those reviews suggested.


Anyway, a better choice for the money might be the acurate DS but I didnt get a chance to hear it. But before I make an attempt I want to wait until they got the UI issues resolved.


A little note to put this into perspective: I recently replaced my old earth/ground rod with a new heavy-duty copper coated steel rod and this had a much greater impact on the sound of the whole system for a fraction of the costs.
 
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#11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 /forum/post/15463422


Has anyone listened to one of the Linn Digital Stream players being played with a harddrive?
http://www.linn.co.uk/digital_stream_players


I was curious about the sound quality of this versus my Meridain G98 and 861.


Thanks,

Ken
Click to expand...

I am also curious, Ken. The Sneaky DS sounds prety cool. Can convert files up to 192/24, do internet radio, and has a 20 wpc amp.


I am currently building a house and am evaluating options for distributing audio from a large raid-based media server.
 
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#12 ·
Doug,


Sorry to say that you are 100% wrong here. While in a non-realtime sense all digital is the same, the way it is delivered, jitter, background signal, latency, etc. all have a profound effect on the signal.


Digital is not Digital - all digital is not created equal. It is just not so.
 
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#13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterS /forum/post/15468982


Doug,


Sorry to say that you are 100% wrong here. While in a non-realtime sense all digital is the same, the way it is delivered, jitter, background signal, latency, etc. all have a profound effect on the signal.


Digital is not Digital - all digital is not created equal. It is just not so.
Click to expand...


In what way do the sound change depending on what "way it is delivered"?

Jitter? Even super lowpriced dvd players have jitterlevels lower than you can hear so what the problem? And, even so, use the same simple technology as the Benchmark DAC and it does not matter.

What is "background signal"?


Profound? Seriously, if you want people to take you seriouly you should maybe not exaggerate like that.


No digital is SCIENCE and it can clearly be explained, tested and measured.
 
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#14 ·

Quote:
Eventually I demo'd the klimax and after reading all those raving tests my expectations were sky-rocketing. the product itself is a stunner, but unfortunately the sound didnt meet those expectations (in my setup) nor did the user interface, the one that comes with it is an insult to anyone who remotely understands aesthetics, it might be better by now though.


the differences to my oldish modified cd player (in the class of like a levinson 390) were there, more stable presentation, sharper, more fluid in a sense that it sounded less 'clocked', but it was also lifted up in frequency if that makes sense, like more mid definition and lifted highs, less bass heft. but overall the difference wasnt even in near relation to the costs. here is the killer: my wife asked me several times if I can hear a difference switching back and forth.
Click to expand...

Were you using a digital connection?

Quote:
To be fair I have to say that we didnt use the same interconnects , linn dealer brought their linn cables which im not familiar with against my well run in straightwire crescendos. Also I had the feeling the klimax and/or the cables weren't run in or warmed up properly, it sounded a little forward to my ears during this short visit.



Overall, during this test, to me at least the difference sounded like upgrading to a better interconnect but not like switching to a much superior product like all those reviews suggested.



A little note to put this into perspective: I recently replaced my old earth/ground rod with a new heavy-duty copper coated steel rod and this had a much greater impact on the sound of the whole system for a fraction of the costs.
Click to expand...

Cables and burn in do not make a difference, this has been proven with science and double blind tests.

Quote:
Can convert files up to 192/24,
Click to expand...

So do most DAC's now days and cheap receivers.

Quote:
Doug,


Sorry to say that you are 100% wrong here. While in a non-realtime sense all digital is the same, the way it is delivered, jitter, background signal, latency, etc. all have a profound effect on the signal.


Digital is not Digital - all digital is not created equal. It is just not so.
Click to expand...

What? You might want to stop reading audiophile snake oil and do a little research. Jitter does not matter and how would the 0's and 1's differ from one product to another. unless you were applying some type of processing it will be 100% the same.

Quote:
In what way do the sound change depending on what "way it is delivered"?

Jitter? Even super lowpriced dvd players have jitterlevels lower than you can hear so what the problem? And, even so, use the same simple technology as the Benchmark DAC and it does not matter.

What is "background signal"?


Profound? Seriously, if you want people to take you seriouly you should maybe not exaggerate like that.


No digital is SCIENCE and it can clearly be explained, tested and measured.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
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#16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 /forum/post/15463422


Has anyone listened to one of the Linn Digital Stream players being played with a harddrive? ... I was curious about the sound quality of this versus my Meridain G98 and 861.
Click to expand...

I was unable to detect a difference between CDs played through my G68 with my 506 used as a transport and CDs ripped in iTunes and played back over an Airport Express using its digital output. It doesn't mean that there isn't a difference, just that I could not hear one. Of course, the G98 has the advantage that it plays DVD-As and DVDs as well.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/15477365



Cables and burn in do not make a difference, this has been proven with science and double blind tests.
Click to expand...

You're a lucky man. If I had a tin ear like yours I would have been able to save a lot of money and not be in the 20k forum.

ken
 
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#20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/15477365


Cables and burn in do not make a difference, this has been proven with science and double blind tests.
Click to expand...

Not true, at least regarding cable. It has been shown that amps/cable/speaker combinations work as a system and can give different results.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/15477365


So do most DAC's now days and cheap receivers.
Click to expand...

Not true in either case. Most dacs do not handle rates/bits greater than 96/24, but the numbers that do are growing.


Same with receivers.


Also, neither will do it in the sense that the Linn device does, which is to stream the high rez file directly from a network file share, run it through its dac and then amplify directly to speakers.


I am playing with building some pc's to tackle this same issue utilizing firewire based external "soundcards" that will do a/d and d/a at all of the relevent resolutions.


Here's the firewire box that's on its way:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire610.html
 
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