AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,363 Posts
Check out "The Black Box" being shown at CES alongside Rockport Technology and their speakers. Currently possibly best sounding digital available - so sayeth Andy Payor of Rockport.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,363 Posts
Wow!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/15468244


Yes, unless the component it applying some type of processing.




No? So how would the 0's and 1's be different from product to product?

It's not the ones and zeros that change (although there are read errors at times), but there are varied methods and components used that produce different analog results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...alog_converter
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,570 Posts

Quote:
It's not the ones and zeros that change (although there are read errors at times), but there are varied methods and components used that produce different analog results.

What does a DAC have to do with a source or media center that is sending a digital signal?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
we had a brief discussion here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...783&highlight=



Eventually I demo'd the klimax and after reading all those raving tests my expectations were sky-rocketing. the product itself is a stunner, but unfortunately the sound didnt meet those expectations (in my setup) nor did the user interface, the one that comes with it is an insult to anyone who remotely understands aesthetics, it might be better by now though.


the differences to my oldish modified cd player (in the class of like a levinson 390) were there, more stable presentation, sharper, more fluid in a sense that it sounded less 'clocked', but it was also lifted up in frequency if that makes sense, like more mid definition and lifted highs, less bass heft. but overall the difference wasnt even in near relation to the costs. here is the killer: my wife asked me several times if I can hear a difference switching back and forth.


because i like well defined and weighty bass I couldnt name a clear winner despite hearing differences in slight favour of the DS. my old player did bass well, however the DS is probably better from there on. To be fair I have to say that we didnt use the same interconnects , linn dealer brought their linn cables which im not familiar with against my well run in straightwire crescendos. Also I had the feeling the klimax and/or the cables weren't run in or warmed up properly, it sounded a little forward to my ears during this short visit.


Overall, during this test, to me at least the difference sounded like upgrading to a better interconnect but not like switching to a much superior product like all those reviews suggested.


Anyway, a better choice for the money might be the acurate DS but I didnt get a chance to hear it. But before I make an attempt I want to wait until they got the UI issues resolved.


A little note to put this into perspective: I recently replaced my old earth/ground rod with a new heavy-duty copper coated steel rod and this had a much greater impact on the sound of the whole system for a fraction of the costs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 /forum/post/15463422


Has anyone listened to one of the Linn Digital Stream players being played with a harddrive?
http://www.linn.co.uk/digital_stream_players


I was curious about the sound quality of this versus my Meridain G98 and 861.


Thanks,

Ken

I am also curious, Ken. The Sneaky DS sounds prety cool. Can convert files up to 192/24, do internet radio, and has a 20 wpc amp.


I am currently building a house and am evaluating options for distributing audio from a large raid-based media server.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,363 Posts
Doug,


Sorry to say that you are 100% wrong here. While in a non-realtime sense all digital is the same, the way it is delivered, jitter, background signal, latency, etc. all have a profound effect on the signal.


Digital is not Digital - all digital is not created equal. It is just not so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,524 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterS /forum/post/15468982


Doug,


Sorry to say that you are 100% wrong here. While in a non-realtime sense all digital is the same, the way it is delivered, jitter, background signal, latency, etc. all have a profound effect on the signal.


Digital is not Digital - all digital is not created equal. It is just not so.


In what way do the sound change depending on what "way it is delivered"?

Jitter? Even super lowpriced dvd players have jitterlevels lower than you can hear so what the problem? And, even so, use the same simple technology as the Benchmark DAC and it does not matter.

What is "background signal"?


Profound? Seriously, if you want people to take you seriouly you should maybe not exaggerate like that.


No digital is SCIENCE and it can clearly be explained, tested and measured.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,570 Posts

Quote:
Eventually I demo'd the klimax and after reading all those raving tests my expectations were sky-rocketing. the product itself is a stunner, but unfortunately the sound didnt meet those expectations (in my setup) nor did the user interface, the one that comes with it is an insult to anyone who remotely understands aesthetics, it might be better by now though.


the differences to my oldish modified cd player (in the class of like a levinson 390) were there, more stable presentation, sharper, more fluid in a sense that it sounded less 'clocked', but it was also lifted up in frequency if that makes sense, like more mid definition and lifted highs, less bass heft. but overall the difference wasnt even in near relation to the costs. here is the killer: my wife asked me several times if I can hear a difference switching back and forth.

Were you using a digital connection?

Quote:
To be fair I have to say that we didnt use the same interconnects , linn dealer brought their linn cables which im not familiar with against my well run in straightwire crescendos. Also I had the feeling the klimax and/or the cables weren't run in or warmed up properly, it sounded a little forward to my ears during this short visit.



Overall, during this test, to me at least the difference sounded like upgrading to a better interconnect but not like switching to a much superior product like all those reviews suggested.



A little note to put this into perspective: I recently replaced my old earth/ground rod with a new heavy-duty copper coated steel rod and this had a much greater impact on the sound of the whole system for a fraction of the costs.

Cables and burn in do not make a difference, this has been proven with science and double blind tests.

Quote:
Can convert files up to 192/24,

So do most DAC's now days and cheap receivers.

Quote:
Doug,


Sorry to say that you are 100% wrong here. While in a non-realtime sense all digital is the same, the way it is delivered, jitter, background signal, latency, etc. all have a profound effect on the signal.


Digital is not Digital - all digital is not created equal. It is just not so.

What? You might want to stop reading audiophile snake oil and do a little research. Jitter does not matter and how would the 0's and 1's differ from one product to another. unless you were applying some type of processing it will be 100% the same.

Quote:
In what way do the sound change depending on what "way it is delivered"?

Jitter? Even super lowpriced dvd players have jitterlevels lower than you can hear so what the problem? And, even so, use the same simple technology as the Benchmark DAC and it does not matter.

What is "background signal"?


Profound? Seriously, if you want people to take you seriouly you should maybe not exaggerate like that.


No digital is SCIENCE and it can clearly be explained, tested and measured.

I agree.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
502 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob725 /forum/post/15467831


Are you saying that all d/a is identical?

Actually, he said that the sound is irrelevant, which pretty much sums up his focus with respect to audio in general. For him, it's not about the sound, it's about the specifications.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
502 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 /forum/post/15463422


Has anyone listened to one of the Linn Digital Stream players being played with a harddrive? ... I was curious about the sound quality of this versus my Meridain G98 and 861.

I was unable to detect a difference between CDs played through my G68 with my 506 used as a transport and CDs ripped in iTunes and played back over an Airport Express using its digital output. It doesn't mean that there isn't a difference, just that I could not hear one. Of course, the G98 has the advantage that it plays DVD-As and DVDs as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
800 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/15477365



Cables and burn in do not make a difference, this has been proven with science and double blind tests.

You're a lucky man. If I had a tin ear like yours I would have been able to save a lot of money and not be in the 20k forum.

ken
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
502 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ken6217 /forum/post/15478969


Itunes are compressed files. I am not talking about that.

I do not have any downloaded or other compressed files. All of my files are ripped from CDs in Apple lossless format.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/15477365


Cables and burn in do not make a difference, this has been proven with science and double blind tests.

Not true, at least regarding cable. It has been shown that amps/cable/speaker combinations work as a system and can give different results.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor /forum/post/15477365


So do most DAC's now days and cheap receivers.

Not true in either case. Most dacs do not handle rates/bits greater than 96/24, but the numbers that do are growing.


Same with receivers.


Also, neither will do it in the sense that the Linn device does, which is to stream the high rez file directly from a network file share, run it through its dac and then amplify directly to speakers.


I am playing with building some pc's to tackle this same issue utilizing firewire based external "soundcards" that will do a/d and d/a at all of the relevent resolutions.


Here's the firewire box that's on its way:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire610.html
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top