AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,051 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hear that some of the scalers we all talk about (Vigatec, Leeza, NRS and Rock Plus) have video delay. Because of this delay, there can be a lip sync problem when watching a movie.'


So,I was wondering, who has seen it and which scaler has the greater video delay. How have you managed to correct for this delay or do you just live with it.


Now my B&K Ref 20 has center and rear delay, but their would be no way to delay the mains. I guess I could sync the talking, but the explosions would be a little bit off.


Since I am down to choosing between the Vigatec and the

Rock\\Leeza, I wouldnt want to have this type of problem
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,100 Posts
Humey,


Sorry, it takes a bit of time to get some answers, don't be in such a rush...


Vigatec has about twice the video delay of the other scalers.


Terranex has the greatest video delay (7 fields!!!), Vigatec & iScan PRO has about 4 fields, everyone else has 2 fields.


2 fields is usually considered acceptible (it typically gets offset by the time delay caused by the distance between you and your center speaker).


Some A/V receivers have lip sync delay adjustments, or even distance from speaker adjustments :( (e.g., Onkyo 595). Calculating back lip sync delay into speaker distance is quite annoying because the distance is inverse to the delay!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Danny

My set up is Sony 7000 DVD, Vigatec GVC1280 and Sony G70 projector.

With the vigatec and viewing PAL DVD the lip syc is up to 80ms (4 frames) delay which to me is unwatchable.

I have recently purchased 3 Digitech S100 stereo sound processors. ( you need 3 of these units for 5.1 digital AC3)

These processors have good specs for audio, and can delay the audio from bypass zero delay up to 2 seconds.

I have mine set (selectable rotary Knob) NTSC 60 ms PAL 80 ms.

and find this works great.

The price of the unit in Austranlian Dollars was $500 each,

which would be about $250 us.

These units are manufactured in the US.

I believe this is a small price to pay, as the overall investement in home theater is many thousands of dollars.

As for the Vigatec I would recommend it to anyone its a wonderful unit.

Regards

Richard

;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Danny

I have no real problem with NTSC lip sync but it is there, PAL is definately a problem.

With my set up I have eliminated this and can now sit back and enjoy the movie.

It depends on you and your perception of actually watching the movie or concentrating on lip sync because you know its there, and annoys the hell out of you.

As I said $750 is a small price to pay in the scheme of things.

If your looking at a GVC1280 it will cost you around $6000.

a second hand crt projector maybe $4000 and so on, it all adds up.

I hope this put things into perspective.

Regards

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Richardc,


Where abouts do you put these delays? Clearly you've got 6 channels to play with, but do you eliminate the PCM link between your source and amp, and use a seperate DD decoder, with the delays in there, or are they somehow in the amp output lines?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
Nick

You are correct, you must have access to all 6 outputs from a decoder, before it hits the amp.

1. Separate decoder (which I have)

2. Pre Amp controller/decoder

With the modern amps with inbuilt decoders it is not possible.

I have heard a whisper that there might be a lip sync delay unit

released from one of the companys (Video Processors) that have this problem in the near future. (Optical/Coax)

Regards

Richard;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
For NTSC dvd sources is the delay of 4 fields equivalent to an 80msec delay? If it is,is this usually within the adjustment range of most surround processors such as the Lexicon/Tag/Meridian or is another type of delay device required?


Dave
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,100 Posts
No DaveN,


Read the above postings carefully:


4 fields in NTSC (60hz) = 66ms

4 fields in PAL (50hz) = 80ms


Most processors give you a maximum center delay of between 10ms and 30ms.


The more expensive higher end units might go up this far.


Note that you don't have to cut all of the delay. The distance between you and the center speaker (in my case about 12') can cut as much as 20ms from the audio. Also, your brain can compensate for about 20-30ms.


So, if you can cut this delay in half (like Faroudja and LEEZA can do) - you're home free.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
944 Posts
For interest sake, on the Theta CB II, one can set a "Master Delay" (all channels independant of other speaker specific delays) to account for sound sync per input from 0 to 110mS. In my setup, DVD is set to 57mS, and it is set to 79mS for DSS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Rice Rocket,



Can you give me more details on this amp (web sites, cost etc)?


I here the Onkyo 989 can do this as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
944 Posts
Nick: Actually, I use separates--the Theta Casablanca II. It isn't a receiver--more like a digital processor/pre-amp. Unfortunately, it also cost way more than a receiver--the CB II range from $6,500 to $15,000 depending on the configuration. Here's a link to a review: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...r-10-2001.html


There are more affordable alternatives--I believe that the Lexicon processors also incorporate this feature. You may want to check with them: http://www.lexicon.com/Products/ AVS was selling used MC-1 units for around $2K just a couple of weeks ago or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Rice Rocket
the CB II range from $6,500 to $15,000 depending on the configuration.
Rice,


Gulp! It looks like I'll really have to design one then!


Thanks for the info, though :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Hi,



FYI

i checked my onkyo 989 it has a 160 ms audio delay for all channels


BTW thanks for the exellent info on this thread just what i needed to know about this subject.



my best regards,

Talal
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,092 Posts
The Teranex has an audio delay circuit built in. It will delay the audio by the appropriate amount.


The lip sync problem arises when the user has a video processor which can add 3 frames or so, a digital projector which can add an additional 3 frames or so and a source that isn't synced well to begin with. The result can be a video delay greater than 100ms. This type of lip sync would be very annoying.


The least expensive receiver that I can find which has a system delay or A/V sync delay is the Onkyo 898 for $1200 street. It can do 74ms of delay which should be good enough for most applications.


-Mr. Wigggles


Dart, I thought the max A/V sync delay on the 989 was also 74ms?
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top