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Nope, the show really is in scope. No idea why, but there you have it.
This clearly points out the difference in ARs and what is to be considered cinematic.

Something I have been saying for a few years is that all this media that is not cinema needs to be evaluated by the end user and then decide how immersive it wants to be shown. TV watchers have the choice made for them as in this case they have a 16:9 TV and it will be shown less immersive than 16:9 TV as far as height. The producers of this TV show know it is never going to be shown in a theater and they know that 99.999% of the viewers will have TV sets not projection theaters.

There is nothing wrong with them wanting to make it 2.35 it is their money if they want to spend millions of dollars on broadcasting black bars. If they come out in an interview and say they did it this way because they wanted to film the subject matter in a way that was more cinematic then maybe I would feel inclined to sit closer with a TV or expand it with my projector. Without knowing that it is purely a personal choice as to how large to watch it. There is no dictate. No different than when I watch Planet Earth or GoT and deem for myself they seem proper with IMAX like immersion / BudMAX.

It is great to have a list of these shows and I commend you on keeping it up, but when I start watching one of these shows in my media room I realize it instantly and have to make a judgment call based around what I see.

With real cinema there is a predetermined sizing relationship between scope and flat and we don’t need to hear the input of the director as we know his product was intended to be shown in a theater as most likely CIH.
This stuff as I mentioned early on in the thread is just TV
 

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I'm new to this thread, and I thought to contribute something:

HBO Max:
2.00:1: Mare of Easttown, Beartown, 30 Coins, Industry, The Investigation, The Undoing,
His Dark Materials (S2), Perry Mason, Avenue 5, The Flight Attendant, Generation... basically 90% of new shows
2.66:1: On The Spectrum

Netflix:
90% new shows are in 2.00:1, with exception below, mostly incomplete:
1.85:1 : Behind Her Eyes, Unorthodox, The Eddy, Paranormal, The Victims' Game
1.90:1 : Worn Stories, Triad Princess, The Stranded
2.10:1 : White Lines
2.20:1 : Space Force, The Baby-Sitters Club, Shadow and Bone, Ratched, The Politician, Hollywood, Away, The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance (slightly wider than 2.20)
2.35 - 2.39:1 (Scope) : Ethos, The Liberator, Jupiter's Legacy, The Letter for the King, Sky Rojo (some scenes are 2.00:1)

Apple TV+
1.90:1 : Little America
2.10:1 : See
2.20:1 : Truth Be Told
2.39:1 : Tehran, Losing Alice
 

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Discussion Starter · #283 ·
HBO Max:
2.00:1: Mare of Easttown, Beartown, 30 Coins, Industry, The Investigation, The Undoing,
His Dark Materials (S2), Perry Mason, Avenue 5, The Flight Attendant, Generation... basically 90% of new shows
Although all of these shows stream on HBO Max, my list is broken up between those that originate on HBO's linear channel and those that are Max Originals.

2.66:1: On The Spectrum
I wasn't aware of this one. I just cued up the first episode on two devices. On both, it defaults to English dubbed audio. If you select to watch with the original Hebrew audio, NVIDIA ShieldTV adds very large English subtitles that are partially in the image and partially in the letterbox bar, extending way below the 2.35:1 boundary. Roku is even more frustrating, in that it generates no subtitles at all unless you turn on English closed captioning (white text in ugly black boxes), which again extends below the image.

I'll also note that the show's opening credits start at full-screen 16:9 and quickly shrink in height to 2.66:1, but as far as I can tell everything remains 2.66:1 afterwards.

Netflix:
1.85:1 : Unorthodox, The Eddy, Paranormal,
Thanks. The trailers for these three are all full-screen 16:9, but I just validated that the episodes actually have tiny letterbox bars.

Sky Rojo (some scenes are 2.00:1)
Similarly, the trailers for this are entirely 2.35:1 with no indication that the ratio varies to 2.00:1 in some scenes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #285 ·
Jupiter’s Legacy on Netflix varies between scope for modern scenes and full 16x9 for flashback scenes.
I discovered that as well. I'll update the list on Monday.
 

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Discussion Starter · #286 ·
On the subject of Jupiter's Legacy, trailers for the show were 2.35:1 with no indication of VAR. While watching, I set my projector for scope with electronic blanking of anything above and below 2.35:1. I quickly realized that the composition of the flashback scenes looked poor, so I zoomed out and discovered the variable ratio. Scenes set in the modern day are scope while those set in the 1920s are full-screen 16:9.

For those inclined to try, I would not advise watching the show fully cropped to 2.35:1. It's not composed for that and too many faces get cut off. I tried my 2.20:1 preset, which is still not ideal but is at least watchable. Headroom is cramped and you lose some foreheads, but faces are generally visible. 2.0:1 might work as a better compromise for the 16:9 scenes, though sadly the scope scenes are really compromised by shrinking them down.
 

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On the subject of Jupiter's Legacy, trailers for the show were 2.35:1 with no indication of VAR. While watching, I set my projector for scope with electronic blanking of anything above and below 2.35:1. I quickly realized that the composition of the flashback scenes looked poor, so I zoomed out and discovered the variable ratio. Scenes set in the modern day are scope while those set in the 1920s are full-screen 16:9.

For those inclined to try, I would not advise watching the show fully cropped to 2.35:1. It's not composed for that and too many faces get cut off. I tried my 2.20:1 preset, which is still not ideal but is at least watchable. Headroom is cramped and you lose some foreheads, but faces are generally visible. 2.0:1 might work as a better compromise for the 16:9 scenes, though sadly the scope scenes are really compromised by shrinking them down.
I’m honestly curious. It seems from what you posted the scope parts play well being shown as immersive as a scope motion picture and are even diminished some when going to your 2.0:1 setting making a compromise for the 16:9 parts of the show.

I know you don’t have a CIH+IMAX sized screen but if you did would that be a good way to enjoy this show? Or would the 16:9 parts be overly large doing that?

In your opinion has the director of this show and others doing this form of AR changing made an error in their cinematography? Might they have rather placed the 16:9 inside the 2.35 frame except they expected an outrage from the majority of viewers with TV sets not liking the double black bars.
Are shows like this just a no win situation for CIH projection folks? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #288 ·

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Discussion Starter · #289 ·
For those inclined to try, I would not advise watching the show fully cropped to 2.35:1. It's not composed for that and too many faces get cut off. I tried my 2.20:1 preset, which is still not ideal but is at least watchable. Headroom is cramped and you lose some foreheads, but faces are generally visible. 2.0:1 might work as a better compromise for the 16:9 scenes, though sadly the scope scenes are really compromised by shrinking them down.
I watched some more of Jupiter's Legacy last night using my projector's 2.0:1 preset. That seemed very workable. The 16:9 scenes don't look too cramped or lose anything noticeable.

This show's use of variable ratio is frustrating, as there's no particular need for the flashback scenes to be larger than the present day scenes. There's nothing "IMAX" about them. They're composed as typical 16:9, which means that faces and object sizes are larger than the shrunken letterboxed footage of the present day scenes.

I suspect that the most satisfying way to watch this show would be to use a Radiance Pro or MadVR Envy with aspect ratio detection to automatically scale down and pillarbox the 16:9 scenes within the 2.35:1 frame. That's a very expensive solution, unfortunately.
 

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So this show expands but does not display anything “IMAX” when expanding, but on the other hand when it switches to scope AR it has a scope motion picture quality even though it is a TV show and not a scope motion picture intended to be shown in a theater.

From that can we assume that some TV could have an “IMAX” type framing / cinematography, and even a made for TV series could be totally framed as if it were “IMAX” or expand like it was an “IMAX” shifter.

If this is possible and the director didn’t tell us anything much like the director of this hasn’t explained why he wanted to shoot in an AR like scope knowing he wasn’t going to be shown in a scope theater that we have to make up our own minds on what to do to best watch this new media on our home projection theaters.

In suggesting this show works well at 2.0:1 with some cropping to the expansion parts it sounds to me you are suggesting exactly what I do with my PIA presentation methods when dealing with modern TV.
Are you embracing the concept?
 

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Discussion Starter · #291 ·
In suggesting this show works well at 2.0:1 with some cropping to the expansion parts it sounds to me you are suggesting exactly what I do with my PIA presentation methods when dealing with modern TV.
Are you embracing the concept?
Bud, you are exasperating. You know that, right? :)

I would not use the word "embrace." It's more of an unfortunate and unwanted compromise.
 

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I agree it is an unfortunate and unwanted compromise.

I’m not the guy producing or directing TV and movies in a dozen different ARs that sometime change back and forth whenever they feel there is some artistic reason to do so. I’m just a guy trying to figure out how to best deal with all this craziness.

I haven’t started watching Jupiter’s Legacy yet but I will likely set the width for scope as you suggest watching those parts as scope work well and I know no matter how badly a director wants to go taller with TV he is stuck inside a 16:9 window. I like you will likely think it was a stupid choice as it is not IMAX like, but it will be big but I wont have to figure out how much to chop off just how much I want to look at as it will all be displayed.
My mom used to say I was exasperating when I was a kid. :rolleyes:
 

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The Cleaning Lady (Fox) new upcoming midseason 2022 drama. 2.00:1

Of the four trailers released today by Fox for their Upfront, The Cleaning Lady is the only trailer wider than 16:9.
 

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Discussion Starter · #294 ·
I've updated the listing for Master of None to indicate that season 3 has moved to a 4:3 pillarboxed aspect ratio.
 

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Discussion Starter · #295 ·
Epix has been playing trailers for the new historical drama Domina letterboxed to 2.0:1, but other trailers and clips I've found on YouTube are full-screen 16:9. The show already aired earlier this month in the UK and Europe. Has anyone here seen it and can confirm the aspect ratio?
 

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Discussion Starter · #296 · (Edited)
AMC Premiere and Sundance Now stream a British thriller series called Riviera starring Julia Stiles. It's been on for three seasons. Trailers and clips on YouTube are all over the place for aspect ratio. Some are 2.35:1, some 2.20:1, some 2.0:1, and many full-screen 16:9. Has anyone actually watched this show? I don't subscribe to either streamer and can't confirm.

Edit: Amazon Prime offers the first episode as a free sample. From that, it appears that Season 1 at least is regular 16:9. Still need confirmation on whether the aspect ratio changes in Seasons 2 or 3, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #297 ·
I could still use clearer confirmation, but Blade005 in the HDTV Programming forum says Riviera appears to be 16:9 in the first two seasons and slightly letterboxed (he isn't sure of the exact ratio) for season 3. I'm assuming that S3 is probably 2.0:1 until someone who subscribes to AMC Premiere, AMC+, or Sundance Now can check it out and confirm.
 

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Marvel Television's Inhumans (remember that epic fail) was in 1.90:1 for its first two episodes but only in its limited IMAX release so I'm not sure if it even counts.
Also, Sonic Colors: Rise of the Wisps is an upcoming animated miniseries (probably on YouTube) in an aspect ratio of I think 2.11:1 but it is only two short episodes so far, but I have a hunch they would make more episodes after Sonic Colors Ultimate's release depending on the fan reception.
The first episode would release in Summer 2021 before the launch of Sonic Colors Ultimate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #299 ·
Marvel Television's Inhumans (remember that epic fail) was in 1.90:1 for its first two episodes but only in its limited IMAX release so I'm not sure if it even counts.
The show's broadcast and Blu-ray releases were both 16:9, so I don't think that qualifies for this list. The brief IMAX theatrical run was simply cropped.

Also, Sonic Colors: Rise of the Wisps is an upcoming animated miniseries (probably on YouTube) in an aspect ratio of I think 2.11:1 but it is only two short episodes so far, but I have a hunch they would make more episodes after Sonic Colors Ultimate's release depending on the fan reception.
The first episode would release in Summer 2021 before the launch of Sonic Colors Ultimate.
With just two episodes, I'm not going to add it to the list yet. But if more get made, I can add it then. Thanks.
 

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Here's what's confusing with Marvel Studios' Legends, the episodes are made in batches to promote the next MCU installment.
The WandaVision episodes (S01E01 - S01E02) are both constant 2.35:1 but The Falcon and the Winter Soldier episodes (S01E03 - S01E06) have a 16:9 opening and are 2.35:1 for the rest of the episodes. And Loki has a 16:9 opening while the actual footage varies between 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 depending on the aspect ratio of the source film.

Loki also has scenes that extend beyond the 2.35:1 frame, with some 4:3 and 16:9 scenes just like WandaVision.

Netflix's Trese is in a 2.00:1 aspect ratio.
 
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