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Is the framing scope safe? I would say yes. Does it lack impact cropped? I would say yes.
I saw it in the theater on an 80-foot-wide scope screen with no expanded IMAX scenes and I did not think it lacked any impact. IMAX is meant to be seen in IMAX theaters, 3-4 stories high screen, and not in home screens...the home IMAX is just an open matte presentation and a gimmick that needs to die just like 3D. /me ducks!
 

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I could make the same analogy to scope. Scope is intended to be seen on a screen 80 foot wide in a scope theater and to watch it at home is just a gimmick Big TV with some black cloth pretending to be a movie theater.

I don’t doubt without having anything to compare it to in your local scope theater it was quite entertaining and didn’t leave you lacking mostly because you didn’t see the rest of it.

For anyone reading this and wondering and thinking about screen AR / sizing, go rent Dunkirk BD or better UHD BD and play it on a white wall sit nice and close and watch it once as scope covering up 26% of the picture and then the second time don’t move your seat and watch the full expansions. If it looks like some open matte version of an old war movie then you will know @Killroy was here and was correct. If you think it is enhanced then you will know IMAX at home is a real thing. :D
 

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I could make the same analogy to scope. Scope is intended to be seen on a screen 80 foot wide in a scope theater and to watch it at home is just a gimmick Big TV with some black cloth pretending to be a movie theater.

I don’t doubt without having anything to compare it to in your local scope theater it was quite entertaining and didn’t leave you lacking mostly because you didn’t see the rest of it.

For anyone reading this and wondering and thinking about screen AR / sizing, go rent Dunkirk BD or better UHD BD and play it on a white wall sit nice and close and watch it once as scope covering up 26% of the picture and then the second time don’t move your seat and watch the full expansions. If it looks like some open matte version of an old war movie then you will know @Killroy was here and was correct. If you think it is enhanced then you will know IMAX at home is a real thing. :D
I love Ben Hur ,my favorite film of all time in fact, but even that I can't watch enough to do a 2.76:1 screen. Dunkirk is just an OK film really ,how many times can you watch what looks like 14 total films ,10 of which are mediocre at best ?

I mean there are :
Ben Hur
Mutiny On The Bounty
Fall of the Roman Empire
Battle of the Bulge
Rogue One
The Greatest Story Ever Told
It's a Mad,Mad,Mad,Mad World
Raintree County
How the West Was Won
The Hateful Eight

All in 2.76:1

Not to mention tons of 2.55:1 films many are truly great films and I wouldn't build a screen or room or both just for them.
 

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I saw it in the theater on an 80-foot-wide scope screen with no expanded IMAX scenes and I did not think it lacked any impact. IMAX is meant to be seen in IMAX theaters, 3-4 stories high screen, and not in home screens...the home IMAX is just an open matte presentation and a gimmick that needs to die just like 3D. /me ducks!
We are getting our wish with 3D ...
 

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Discussion Starter #129
I mean there are :
Ben Hur
Mutiny On The Bounty
Fall of the Roman Empire
Battle of the Bulge
Rogue One
The Greatest Story Ever Told
It's a Mad,Mad,Mad,Mad World
Raintree County
How the West Was Won
The Hateful Eight

All in 2.76:1
How did Rogue One get in that list? That's a standard 2.40:1 movie. Did you type the wrong title?
 
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Looks like the IMAX AR is at 2.20:1 and it is completely framed for the scope area so you really won't lose any important image if you stay CIH....but the IMAX scenes look so much better than the scope, although the switch from grainy scope to almost digital clean IMAX is a bit jarring. But this one really shows the added resolution of the IMAX format.
This is what bugs me about all this stuff. Fallout doesn't look better because it is IMAX, it isn't. The scenes look "better" because they were shot with an extremely high end digital camera, unlike the rest of the film. They didn't even use IMAX cameras (digital or film). The expanded aspect ratio was just the open matte version of the capture. The majority of the films that people say are IMAX are not, even the IMAX digital camera used for Infinity Wars is just an Alexa 65 with an IMAX sticker stuck on it (same camera that has been used on lots of movies that don't say shot on IMAX cameras). It is a marketing ploy, nothing more. We've already seen DP's talk about IMAX wanting an open matte version of their scope films to fill their screen more (see BR2049 and Skyfall). If it is shot 15/70 great, that is IMAX proper. Everything else is a marketing ploy. I'm not saying it doesn't look good, I LOVE that director's are shooting more and more films with fantastic quality cameras with large format sensors, but the marketing dribble is getting old.
 

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I love Ben Hur ,my favorite film of all time in fact, but even that I can't watch enough to do a 2.76:1 screen. Dunkirk is just an OK film really ,how many times can you watch what looks like 14 total films ,10 of which are mediocre at best ?

I mean there are :
Ben Hur
Mutiny On The Bounty
Fall of the Roman Empire
Battle of the Bulge
Rogue One
The Greatest Story Ever Told
It's a Mad,Mad,Mad,Mad World
Raintree County
How the West Was Won
The Hateful Eight

All in 2.76:1

Not to mention tons of 2.55:1 films many are truly great films and I wouldn't build a screen or room or both just for them.
That’s kind of the point of what I advocate and how I do my presentation.

Why not do everything if you can. When The Hateful Eight came out I pulled back on the zoom and watched it as it was intended. When Dunkirk expands I watch it as it should be or at least as immersive as the director allowed on the disc.

Selecting a screen is the start of the limiting of your options IMO.

I’m not designing a screen for just a few films I’m designing a screen for every film made and every film to be made.
 

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Discussion Starter #133
Josh I got my info here:

https://www.widescreen.org/aspect_ratios.shtml

If this list is inaccurate let me know but it doesn't diminish my point
Rogue One was originally planned to be shot on 65mm with Ultra Panavision 70 lenses. However, the production eventually switched to digital capture on an Alexa 65 camera, but kept the lenses. The final product was cropped and conformed to a 2.40:1 aspect ratio in post-production. The movie never was never projected at 2.76:1.

The Hateful Eight used the same lenses on a 65mm camera and did go all the way to 2.76:1.
 
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Rogue One was originally planned to be shot on 65mm with Ultra Panavision 70 lenses. However, the production eventually switched to digital capture on an Alexa 65 camera, but kept the lenses. The final product was cropped and conformed to a 2.40:1 aspect ratio in post-production. The movie never was never projected at 2.76:1.

The Hateful Eight used the same lenses on a 65mm camera and did go all the way to 2.76:1.


Thanks !

Art
 

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I could make the same analogy to scope. Scope is intended to be seen on a screen 80 foot wide in a scope theater and to watch it at home is just a gimmick Big TV with some black cloth pretending to be a movie theater.

I don’t doubt without having anything to compare it to in your local scope theater it was quite entertaining and didn’t leave you lacking mostly because you didn’t see the rest of it.

For anyone reading this and wondering and thinking about screen AR / sizing, go rent Dunkirk BD or better UHD BD and play it on a white wall sit nice and close and watch it once as scope covering up 26% of the picture and then the second time don’t move your seat and watch the full expansions. If it looks like some open matte version of an old war movie then you will know @Killroy was here and was correct. If you think it is enhanced then you will know IMAX at home is a real thing. :D
This only works for those with a 16:9 screen. If you have a proper scope screen, you would pick Dunkirk in scope all day. The problem with 16x9 screens is that they are working the opposite of what they should. I understand why, but I built my theater to watch movies, not TV. Aspect ratios are based on width, not height, hence 1.85:1, 2.35:1, the height always remains locked to the WIDTH, not the other way around. So when I watch Dunkirk in scope, the image is over 50% larger than if I watch it in flat. Since Nolan shot it scope safe, I watch it that way. If a movie was shot in 1.85:1 or 1.78:1, I watch it in that format. Doesn't bug me at all. But a scope movie looks FAR more cinematic in my setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #136
This only works for those with a 16:9 screen. If you have a proper scope screen, you would pick Dunkirk in scope all day. The problem with 16x9 screens is that they are working the opposite of what they should. I understand why, but I built my theater to watch movies, not TV. Aspect ratios are based on width, not height, hence 1.85:1, 2.35:1, the height always remains locked to the WIDTH, not the other way around. So when I watch Dunkirk in scope, the image is over 50% larger than if I watch it in flat. Since Nolan shot it scope safe, I watch it that way. If a movie was shot in 1.85:1 or 1.78:1, I watch it in that format. Doesn't bug me at all. But a scope movie looks FAR more cinematic in my setup.
Oh Kris, it's a futile argument engaging with Bud. He has his own nutty ideas about film presentation and, as he insists on telling everyone in earshot over and over again, doesn't have a screen at all, just a big open wall that he continually changes his zoom ratio to project onto, depending on his mood that day.

If he could, he'd just project movies up into the sky and watch them reflected off the clouds.
 

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This only works for those with a 16:9 screen. If you have a proper scope screen, you would pick Dunkirk in scope all day. The problem with 16x9 screens is that they are working the opposite of what they should. I understand why, but I built my theater to watch movies, not TV. Aspect ratios are based on width, not height, hence 1.85:1, 2.35:1, the height always remains locked to the WIDTH, not the other way around. So when I watch Dunkirk in scope, the image is over 50% larger than if I watch it in flat. Since Nolan shot it scope safe, I watch it that way. If a movie was shot in 1.85:1 or 1.78:1, I watch it in that format. Doesn't bug me at all. But a scope movie looks FAR more cinematic in my setup.
Moses didn’t come down from the mountain with a tablet that said Aspect Ratios are based around width and height should never change.

What you are saying is any ratio can be stated in terms of 1.0 so 16:9 is 1.77:1 and in doing that everything has to be the same height. That’s just silly.

You do have me thinking though and because I like to watch 1.89:1 IMAX content the width of scope only wider IMAX made a serious mistake in calling the AR 1.89. It should really be 2.84:1.5. That would really clear things up wouldn’t it.

Here is the real thing Nolan shot his movie (Scope Safe). That is so true. But what I wonder is if we could ask him is scope safe the same thing as the best presentation possible for him to want us to watch that movie in? Oh how silly of me we don’t need to ask him that he has explained it dozens of times in interviews. He only did it because he wanted it shown as immersive as possible in as many venues as he could put it in, but given the choice he highly recommended seeing it in the tallest format you have access to, and the absolute best was the full IMAX 1.43 if you are lucky enough to live by one.

His acknowledgment that it is scope safe to be cropped in no way says that is equally as good that way as 1.89 in a LieMAX theater or 1.77 at home in a proper theater or 1.43 in a real IMAX theater.

As I posted yesterday for anyone reading that hasn’t made up their mind watch it both ways and make up your own mind if you like 2.35:1 or 2.84:1.5 better. :D
 

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I watch Dunkirk in scope, the image is over 50% larger than if I watch it in flat. Since Nolan shot it scope safe, I watch it that way.
So it is scope safe? I haven't watched it in scope yet (my HT is not ready yet) and I wanted to add that to my list of variable AR movies to just view in scope.

BTW, I also agree with you 110% on IMAX turning into a marketing ploy. I just commented that there is a difference in look between the scope and "IMAX" scenes. If they had shot the entire film with the same digital look then I would not have noticed any difference. But the way it stands now, the scope does look a lot grainier (not a bad thing at all) than the "IMAX" scenes. I guess that is part of their marketing ploy... "Look how cleaner this IMAX looks compared to that filthy film look!!!"
 

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What you are saying is any ratio can be stated in terms of 1.0 so 16:9 is 1.77:1 and in doing that everything has to be the same height. That’s just silly.
It isn't silly, that is EXACTLY the way content is shot. For it to be represented on a display properly they should be the same height. We don't do that because of TV Broadcast standards, so everyone's thinking is based on a format that they are forced to use for TV (16x9 displays).

Here is the real thing Nolan shot his movie (Scope Safe). That is so true. But what I wonder is if we could ask him is scope safe the same thing as the best presentation possible for him to want us to watch that movie in? Oh how silly of me we don’t need to ask him that he has explained it dozens of times in interviews. He only did it because he wanted it shown as immersive as possible in as many venues as he could put it in, but given the choice he highly recommended seeing it in the tallest format you have access to, and the absolute best was the full IMAX 1.43 if you are lucky enough to live by one.
Wow, Nolan goes out of his way to shoot on IMAX film so you can see it in true IMAX 70mm and he suggests that you see it that way? I can't believe that is how he recommends seeing it!:rolleyes:

Knowing Nolan the only way he would recommend properly watching this film at home is via a film projector with a 65mm print.
 

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Oh Kris, it's a futile argument engaging with Bud. He has his own nutty ideas about film presentation and, as he insists on telling everyone in earshot over and over again, doesn't have a screen at all, just a big open wall that he continually changes his zoom ratio to project onto, depending on his mood that day.

If he could, he'd just project movies up into the sky and watch them reflected off the clouds.
I don’t know about the clouds but that might be kind of cool to try. :)

I wouldn’t say I’m nutty though or if I am nutty I’m in some good company. In a recent thread in the screen forum member chriscmore of Seymour AV and Don Stewart of Stewart FilmScreens both were answering some questions about 4way automatic masking systems that cost a small fortune that allow people the freedom to mask primarily the way I do my presentation. Of course both companies offer 2way masking systems for those wanting CIH as well as the more modern method they are designing for Nutty people like myself and guys like Rob Hahn.

Masking or not the principal is the same.
 
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