[Rach]

I have seen on this forum many members wanting a direct comparison between DTS core and DTS-MA. I was able to hook up my Onkyo 605 and Panny BD-30 over the weekend and made some comparisons between the DTS core and MA using Live Free or Die Hard. I had a Panny 10A hooked up initially to tweak my equalizer settings on the 605. As many of you know, Live Free or Die Hard (1.5 DTS core) is reference audio in my opinion. I used several of the high powered action scenes to tweak highs and lows, etc. I believe I watched the F-16(?) scene about 20 times trying to tweak the receiver. My wife had to ask when I was going to stop as it was driving her crazy. When I finally got the settings I liked, I decided to hook up the Panny BD-30 and check out DTS-MA. I was quite skeptical of any real improvements as the core is reference. I hooked it up and as soon as the Fox logo appeared, I knew something was quite different. I skimmed through several scenes but went back to the F-16 scene to check if there was any real improvement. I was taken back. The sound was so much fuller. There was definitely more information coming into every speaker and it was much harder to pinpoint which speaker each sound was coming from. I really did not expect this kind of improvement. So there you go from a skeptic. It is much better. I'm not saying every movie will see this kind of improvment but it was CLEARLY evident in LFoDH.

 

[Sorbert]

think you mean 5.1 and it was an f-35 but other then that thanks for the info

 

[Rach]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorbert /forum/post/12894601


think you mean 5.1 and it was an f-35 but other then that thanks for the info

You are right. I am using a 5.1 setup in both cases but I meant to say the DTS core bandwidth of 1.5 mps.

 

[MovieSwede]

It still doesnt take away the placebo effect.


Im not saying there isnt a difference, but it doesnt take much difference before people think its a major difference.


Here is another test.


Wait a week, let your wife choose track and play a section in the middle of the movie. She turns the volume up were she is hearing the dialouge well and clear.


You walk in and guess (without cheating...

) What you are listening to.


Then you do this over again during the weeks. And see how many times you could pick the right one.

 

[Rach]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede /forum/post/12895161


It still doesnt take away the placebo effect.


Im not saying there isnt a difference, but it doesnt take much difference before people think its a major difference.


Here is another test.


Wait a week, let your wife choose track and play a section in the middle of the movie. She turns the volume up were she is hearing the dialouge well and clear.


You walk in and guess (without cheating...

) What you are listening to.


Then you do this over again during the weeks. And see how many times you could pick the right one.

Ok but master audio is going to shine in the action packed scenes not the dialog scenes. I probably won't be able to guess which output she chose in a dialog scene but if dialog was the only criteria for audio we could use good tv speakers and not waste any money. Master audio should really shine in action sequences and in LFoDH, it clearly does! Is it worth the upgrade? Only the individual can decide but can you tell the difference? In LFoDH, a resounding YES!

 

[chris r in pa]

I can't wait if and when the ps3 does internal decoding to hear it, but I don't expect it to be a lot different than the core. A great sound mix is a great sound mix, even in lowly dd. Watched Bourne Ultimatum yesterday in truehd and it was ungodly transparent and beautiful--and I'm sure the DD+ track would sound very similar!

 

[FilmMixer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/12900896


The DTS MA sound track is amazing. Its not like the DTS core is bad. That is simply not the case. The DTS core sounds amazing as well. But with the HD audio track on this disk, all five people in my front room ducked when the car came crashing in on them in the tunnel. That is not how engulfing the DTS core is. With the DTS core you go, "Wow, this sound great." With the hd audio codec you duck. Tell me what that says about which is better?

It tells us nothing.


Were you level matched?

How were you switching between the core and MA decode? And did everyone know which track they were listening to?


Try to do the test again without the sub on.. same result?

 

[sycho316]

Off topic: it's not the F-16, it's the F-35

 

[OhioMike]

Did I just read 2 professional mixers say that there is little or no difference between Lossless and Lossy audio? What is the point of lossless audio then? Or is this a I don't like DTS-MA thing? I guess I'm not going to bother to upgrade my receiver then if DD+ and DTS cores are just as good as PCM, TrueHD and DTS-MA. Thanks for saving me some cash guys!!

 

[QCamera]



Quote:
Originally Posted by chris r in pa /forum/post/12900104


I can't wait if and when the ps3 does internal decoding to hear it, but I don't expect it to be a lot different than the core. A great sound mix is a great sound mix, even in lowly dd. Watched Bourne Ultimatum yesterday in truehd and it was ungodly transparent and beautiful--and I'm sure the DD+ track would sound very similar!

Hmm... this is interesting. I personally feel that "Bourne Ultimatum" HD-DVD is the crappiest TrueHD on all the latest movies. The dialog is very clear and lively, but the action scene are super super dull.


As for DTS-MA, till this day, and after listened to a few more DTS-MA titles, I still conclude that it is the best sound format currently available. Yes, better than TrueHD "AND" PCM-Uncompressed.


Sorry, I don't listen to sound with my SPL meter. =(


P.s., Want the best gun sound effect ever in HT or movie?? Try "Mr. Brooks" on DTS-MA. Be warn, u will be spoiled.

 

[QCamera]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/12903684


Q....


Did you listen to Live Free and Die Hard and duck?


I'm wondering about a duck-o-meter.

haha!! Funny Jsmiddleton4!!


Honestly, my first experience with LFoDH was on DTS-CORE, and on that flying car scene, I was like "WOW, that was cool, I like the subwoofer sound." and that was it. Yeah, pretty lame, I know. =)


Second time, on DTS-MA, I was like "HOLY SH!TT!!! THE CAR IS COMING!!" Don't know what kind of silly expression I have on my face.


Third time, show it to my friends and my family, when the car flipping scene come up, instead of watching the action on my TV, I look right into the audience, and man, their eyes were wide-open, completedly frozed, while at the same time, I can see they start trying to push back into the sofa to try to get away from the flying car. Amazing sight to behold. =)


Btw, I was also really amazed how lively the street in "From Hell" I literally feel like I'm in the wagon and talk about a murder case with them. Scary!! The information coming through each speaker is incredible.


Sadly, I haven't able to reproduce such an experience with other TrueHD or PCM titles yet. The only movie AQ come close to DTS-MA is "Ladder 49". I'm still testing many other movies to see which movie have the same wealth of information. TrueHD and PCM sound great, but somehow, it is just not as lively as DTS-MA.

 

[Chuck V]

If this is to be going somewhere further then "cable cookers" and "shakti stones" there has to be some serious testing involved to ensure that sceptical people like me is going to belive the difference is that HUGE.


For starters, one has to be sure to eliminate the placebo effect. Some may find that offensive, "I did hear the difference!!" "It was so mutch better that I could not have been mistaken". Guess what, thats exactly what some say about the difference in sound quality when they have changed there fuse to a gold fuse, or getting new power cables to the CD-player..


Placebo is real, along with the importance of level matched soundtracks, it has to be taken seriuosly, if the results is to be taken seriously. Of course, there is other important things that has to be checked to ensure it's going to get accepted.


Please, don't be offended by this. That's the way it has to be if these comparisons should make any sense (at least to me I should say...).


/Chuck

 

[Rach]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck V /forum/post/12903898


If this is to be going somewhere further then "cable cookers" and "shakti stones" there has to be some serious testing involved to ensure that sceptical people like me is going to belive the difference is that HUGE.


For starters, one has to be sure to eliminate the placebo effect. Some may find that offensive, "I did hear the difference!!" "It was so mutch better that I could not have been mistaken". Guess what, thats exactly what some say about the difference in sound quality when they have changed there fuse to a gold fuse, or getting new power cables to the CD-player..


Placebo is real, along with the importance of level matched soundtracks, it has to be taken seriuosly, if the results is to be taken seriously. Of course, there is other important things that has to be checked to ensure it's going to get accepted.


Please, don't be offended by this. That's the way it has to be if these comparisons should make any sense (at least to me I should say...).


/Chuck

Chuck V,


Not offended. If I had not heard it myself, I would not believe it. I checked the F35 scene at various levels, equalizer settings, and tone settings. It cannot compare to DTS-MA at a modest volume. Simply put, the sound truly is less compartmentalized and more enveloping. You have hear it to believe...Again, from one skeptic to another.


I still am clearly within the 30 days to take back both the receiver and Panny 30 and go back to my THX Kenwood receiver. After hearing this...NOT A CHANCE!

 

[Rach]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 /forum/post/12903700


Rach,


"There was definitely more information coming into every speaker and it was much harder to pinpoint which speaker each sound was coming from."


My very untechnical daughter said it this way, "The sound is coming from everywhere."

I have to agree with your daughter!

 

[Rach]



Quote:
Originally Posted by QCamera /forum/post/12903744


haha!! Funny Jsmiddleton4!!


Honestly, my first experience with LFoDH was on DTS-CORE, and on that flying car scene, I was like "WOW, that was cool, I like the subwoofer sound." and that was it. Yeah, pretty lame, I know. =)


Second time, on DTS-MA, I was like "HOLY SH!TT!!! THE CAR IS COMING!!" Don't know what kind of silly expression I have on my face.


Third time, show it to my friends and my family, when the car flipping scene come up, instead of watching the action on my TV, I look right into the audience, and man, their eyes were wide-open, completedly frozed, while at the same time, I can see they start trying to push back into the sofa to try to get away from the flying car. Amazing sight to behold. =)


Btw, I was also really amazed how lively the street in "From Hell" I literally feel like I'm in the wagon and talk about a murder case with them. Scary!! The information coming through each speaker is incredible.


Sadly, I haven't able to reproduce such an experience with other TrueHD or PCM titles yet. The only movie AQ come close to DTS-MA is "Ladder 49". I'm still testing many other movies to see which movie have the same wealth of information. TrueHD and PCM sound great, but somehow, it is just not as lively as DTS-MA.

Although DTS-MA is astounding. Try 3:10 to Yuma for a PCM experience that is right at the level of DTS-MA. When the train arrives towards the end of the movie...truly intense.

 

[robertc88]

I don't really know if there is a big difference between those audio tracks as I didn't try it with my Panny BD30 and Onkyo SR605. I played the movie using DTS HD MA and all I can say is that it is the best audio sound of any BD I have tried so far since I got that player when it came out. Second best experience with audio has been the last X Men movie "Last Stand".


I can only imagine DTS HD MA on a better AVR than the Onkyo SR605.

 

[Rach]



Quote:
Originally Posted by robertc88 /forum/post/12904748


I don't really know if there is a big difference between those audio tracks as I didn't try it with my Panny BD30 and Onkyo SR605. I played the movie using DTS HD MA and all I can say is that it is the best audio sound of any BD I have tried so far since I got that player when it came out. Second best experience with audio has been the last X Men movie "Last Stand".


I can only imagine DTS HD MA on a better AVR than the Onkyo SR605.

I will have to try X-Men. I also haven't had a chance to try Kingdom of Heaven. I can't wait!

 

[Chuck V]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rach /forum/post/12904646


Chuck V,


Not offended. If I had not heard it myself, I would not believe it. I checked the F35 scene at various levels, equalizer settings, and tone settings. It cannot compare to DTS-MA at a modest volume. Simply put, the sound truly is less compartmentalized and more enveloping. You have hear it to believe...Again, from one skeptic to another.


I still am clearly within the 30 days to take back both the receiver and Panny 30 and go back to my THX Kenwood receiver. After hearing this...NOT A CHANCE!

Glad you took it that way.

/Chuck

 

[QCamera]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck V /forum/post/12903898


If this is to be going somewhere further then "cable cookers" and "shakti stones" there has to be some serious testing involved to ensure that sceptical people like me is going to belive the difference is that HUGE.


For starters, one has to be sure to eliminate the placebo effect. Some may find that offensive, "I did hear the difference!!" "It was so mutch better that I could not have been mistaken". Guess what, thats exactly what some say about the difference in sound quality when they have changed there fuse to a gold fuse, or getting new power cables to the CD-player..


Placebo is real, along with the importance of level matched soundtracks, it has to be taken seriuosly, if the results is to be taken seriously. Of course, there is other important things that has to be checked to ensure it's going to get accepted.


Please, don't be offended by this. That's the way it has to be if these comparisons should make any sense (at least to me I should say...).


/Chuck

Chuck,


My opinions are as honest as it can get. I understand that my opinions may have influence on other purchase decision, therefore, it is crucial that I stated the fact(What I hear, and not what I read), and not being a fanboy. I'm sure, many will disagree with my opinions and consider me having a placebo experience. Which I can confidence tell you, this is not the case, even my family enjoyed the livelier and smoother sound coming out of DTS-MA. And yes, we watch Blu-Ray or HD-DVD every night, and we all come to agree that DTS-MA provided the best experience. Your experience may vary, as everyone setup is different. On my setup, many DTS-MA titles sound simply amazing. And as I have stated before, TrueHD and PCM sound fantastic too, but just not as lively. In case you curious, majority of the time when I watched DTS-MA movies, I have my volume lower than those of TrueHD and PCM.


Good luck!!


Rach, I will have to give "3:10 to YUMA" a try. Thanks for the head up. =)

 

[phansson]

Filmixer and Movieswede, why even bother any more. We all know that neither of you feel their is a difference between 1.5mpbs and lossless. Drop it. We get it. You continually bashing everyone that brings up the subject is getting really old....