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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, things are starting to take shape in the design and plan of my space.


We are building on an addition to my house. This will be a heavy timber exposed beam type construction with vaulted ceilings. The open area will be a game room with pool table, ping pong, etc. The home theater area will have a bar in the rear with a couple of tables for seating and then two step-downs for the 2 rows of theater seating. The only change from the posted plan here is that the door has been moved to the rear of the theater so the door actually opens into the bar area instead of into the 2nd row of seats. The doors in the open area lead to a loft above the theater. The loft will house pinball machines, stand up arcade machines and such.

Addition plan.pdf 186k .pdf file


Here is a sketch of the screen wall (not to scale) We will be using GOM fabric to cover the speakers.

Screen wall sketch.pdf 2996k .pdf file (may need to rotate your view on this)


Here is a list of my components proposed by Mike Garrett. This basically fits my budget.


Sony VW1000ES: http://www.projectorreviews.com/sony/vpl-vw1000es/index.php

Stewart screen: http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/residential/products/fixed_screens/luxus_deluxe_screenwall/luxus_deluxe_screenwall_residential.html See attached screen drawing.

Front three speakers: http://www.klipsch.com/kl-650-thx-bookshelf-speaker

Side surround speakers: http://www.klipsch.com/ks-525-thx-surround-speakers-pair

Back surround speakers: http://www.klipsch.com/kl-7502-thx-in-ceiling-speaker

Two subwoofers: http://www.klipsch.com/kw-120-thx-subwoofer

Subwoofer amp: http://www.klipsch.com/ka-1000-thx-amplifier

Denon AVR-4520: http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/productdetail.aspx?pcatid=avsolutions(denonna)&catalog=denonna_us&catid=avreceivers(denonna)&pid=avr4520ci(denonna)

Oppo BDP-103: http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/


Screen size is a 10'10" wide 2.35 screen.


We are still working out a few details and I'm trying to decide on any masking system. We may recess the screen somewhat and put a curtain-type masking system within the shadow box. Still trying to decide on what to do with that.


Any thoughts or helpful input is appreciated.


Darin
 

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Only suggestion to the list of equipment (because I made this mistake myself), is to get a separate 7 channel amplifier, and a lower cost AVR with pre-outs. With each new version of HDMI (1.0 was released in 2002), we've had four additional versions added in just 10 years. I caught myself constantly chasing each version with expensive AVR's because I needed the big powerful amps built into them.


Admittedly, the Denon you list can handle external inputs from a future AVR, but if you went that route you'd end up using none of this AVR's additional feature when you upgraded.


I'd think about doing something like this if you don't have a lot of input requirements:

Anthem MRX-300 (this gets you ARC at a very low cost) http://anthemav.com/products/anthem/a-v-receiver/mrx-300


Then throw in some beast like this:

NAD Master Series 7 channel amp http://nadelectronics.com/products/masters-series/M25-7-Channel-Amplifier


If you need the bells & whistles (advanced networking, ipad control) go for an AVR like this:

Yamaha RX-A820 http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a820_black_u/?mode=model

or this

Denon 2113CI http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/productdetail.aspx?catalog=denonna_us&pcatid=avsolutions(denonna)&catid=avreceivers(denonna)&pid=avr2113ci(denonna)


Good luck!
 

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Hey Darin -


I took a look at the plans - should be interesting to watch this evolve. Please post some pictures of the space throughout the process. Love construction and watching things come together. We should hook up at some point, I can show you the design s the DE did for me. I'm hoping to wrap up love voltage, insulation and drywall this summer (depending on my knee situation). After you building out the theater yourself once the addition is done?


Bud
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was told the AT screen would double my screen cost from a quoted $3500. As I am trying to hold to a budget, I kind of figured that there was not $3500 worth of "better" going with the AT screen. Any suggestions on cost/benefit and perhaps other more cost-effective screen solution which I may want to consider?
 

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Jamestown theater screen with the Seymour centerstage XD material. I have the exact same size screen that you are looking at (130" wide, 2.35:1) and I got mine for well under $1k. It isn't top of the line but it is still a nice product. Several people on this board have this screen setup. Most, if not all, would probably give it a positive review. Just make sure you order well in advance of when you need it. They are slow to deliver.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice  /t/1470039/living-hope-theater#post_23262997


Jamestown theater screen with the Seymour centerstage XD material. I have the exact same size screen that you are looking at (130" wide, 2.35:1) and I got mine for well under $1k. It isn't top of the line but it is still a nice product. Several people on this board have this screen setup. Most, if not all, would probably give it a positive review. Just make sure you order well in advance of when you need it. They are slow to deliver.
+1. Love my Jamestown frame with the Seymour Centerstage XD. Mine is only 120" wide 2.35:1, and it was well south of $1K. The only thing to keep in mind with Jamestown is they are a small shop and can get backed up pretty easy (at least this was the case for me in Oct-Nov 2012). So if you can plan ahead and leave plenty of time from ordering to when you need it, I can't see any way you would be disappointed.
 

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You could also get the whole package (screen material and solid aluminum frame) directly from SeymourAV for less than half of your original $3500 non-AT quote. Not quite as cheap as the Jamestown package, but still worth considering.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am planning on using a separate HVAC for the theater and one for the play area. I remember seeing somewhere some specs for airflow into a theater (large volume with low flow rates) in order to keep up with the load required but doing it quietly. For some reason, I'm having a hard time finding those specs which I've seen somewhere on the AVSforum. Can someone point me in the right direction so I can pass it along to my HVAC contractor as they are in the planning phase for my addition and theater.


Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Maybe I found my info...if I tell my HVAC folks I need NC20 and FPM of 250 will that be all they need to size and figure out my system?
 

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Nope. HVAC contractors have really no clue nor any way to measure NC20. Any one who says sure, we can do that....avoid. You need an acoustician to measure it with very sensitive microphones and equipment. Big bucks. Second, you have not specified anything of real value to the HVAC contractor. It is better to specify a target temperature as well as NC20. Third, residential contractors have no clue what you are talking about since they more than likely have never heard of that. You need someone to design the HVAC system. Whether a home theater designer or commercial HVAC contractor. However, expect most of them to run when you start holding their feet to the fire regarding target specifics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo  /t/1470039/living-hope-theater#post_23414167


Nope. HVAC contractors have really no clue nor any way to measure NC20. Any one who says sure, we can do that....avoid. You need an acoustician to measure it with very sensitive microphones and equipment. Big bucks. Second, you have not specified anything of real value to the HVAC contractor. It is better to specify a target temperature as well as NC20. Third, residential contractors have no clue what you are talking about since they more than likely have never heard of that. You need someone to design the HVAC system. Whether a home theater designer or commercial HVAC contractor. However, expect most of them to run when you start holding their feet to the fire regarding target specifics.

I was afraid I may hear something like that. I can understand the NC20 and not being able to do that...what about air flow rates, volume, temp, etc. Is the FPM of 250 a reasonable target or is it better to go with one of those split-type systems which gets installed in the wall?
 

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The airflow is a guideline to hopefully maintain a temperature range, but that is dependent on how big the room is, how many people, where the equipment is, etc. It is much more useful to specify a temperature range than anything else. The NC20 aspect is relatively easy to maintain provided that certain laws of physics are understood and adhered to. Things like Bernoulli's principal, wave mechanics and resonance, and sound propagation. A separate system would be ideal, but a zoned system is your best bet. Further, how the HVAC enters the room if you are sound isolating the room (NC20), is absolutely critical.
 

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I'm going to bring up equipment again, even though it hasn't been mentioned on here in a while. Save money on the screen and go with Jamestown or Seymour AV. Jamestown uses the same material as Seymour AV but I've never heard one person that has ordered one, say anything good about their service. They seem to be the cheapest AT screen around but I've seen guys wait for weeks after their screen was supposed to arrive before it actually did. And I'm gonna reiterate what SimpleTheater said, and tell you to get an amp. Audiogon.com has them for sale all day long at good prices. Sherbourn has theirs on sale right now as I type this. Also, if budget is a concern, there are also better priced receivers and preamps that will provide you with the same features for a little less money. If Audyssey MultiEQXT32 is what your looking for then maybe look at the Denon AVR-4311. It's a year or 2 older than the one you wanted but can be had for $1200 with a warranty and I can assure you the sound coming from the 4520 will be the same as the 4311.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth  /t/1470039/living-hope-theater#post_23417357


I'm going to bring up equipment again, even though it hasn't been mentioned on here in a while. Save money on the screen and go with Jamestown or Seymour AV. Jamestown uses the same material as Seymour AV but I've never heard one person that has ordered one, say anything good about their service. They seem to be the cheapest AT screen around but I've seen guys wait for weeks after their screen was supposed to arrive before it actually did. And I'm gonna reiterate what SimpleTheater said, and tell you to get an amp. Audiogon.com has them for sale all day long at good prices. Sherbourn has theirs on sale right now as I type this. Also, if budget is a concern, there are also better priced receivers and preamps that will provide you with the same features for a little less money. If Audyssey MultiEQXT32 is what your looking for then maybe look at the Denon AVR-4311. It's a year or 2 older than the one you wanted but can be had for $1200 with a warranty and I can assure you the sound coming from the 4520 will be the same as the 4311.

Great info. I just went to the Sherbourn website. As I'm new to any high end A/V equipment purchases, what should I be looking for in the amp? Also, I like your idea about the older model Denon. I want to get the best bang for the buck.


As far as the screen goes, the way it was described to me is that for the size of my screen (130" wide) and the projector I need a screen with a 1.5 gain. Apparently the Stewart screen is the only one which has gain. The Seymour screen's actual gain is less than what is listed. I was basically told that the Stewart is my only option for an AT screen with the gain I will need to get the brightness I will want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
One more thing...we did figure out a way with the architect so that I have the same speakers in the rear as up front and do not need to put in-ceiling speakers for my rears. I'll try to post an updated floor plan and theater plans later today or tomorrow.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarinS  /t/1470039/living-hope-theater#post_23418385


Great info. I just went to the Sherbourn website. As I'm new to any high end A/V equipment purchases, what should I be looking for in the amp? Also, I like your idea about the older model Denon. I want to get the best bang for the buck.


As far as the screen goes, the way it was described to me is that for the size of my screen (130" wide) and the projector I need a screen with a 1.5 gain. Apparently the Stewart screen is the only one which has gain. The Seymour screen's actual gain is less than what is listed. I was basically told that the Stewart is my only option for an AT screen with the gain I will need to get the brightness I will want.
Darin,

I think the first thing I to do need is figure out what your goals are. Please don't take this as an insult because that's the last thing I would want to do. I am a very budget conscious AV guy myself. I've heard you say the words budget and bang for the buck more than once and we're not even off the first page of your thread yet. The reason I'm confused is because you have a $25,000 projector listed in your equipment along with a speaker package that is really expensive as well. So I have some questions:


1. Is 4K a requirement? I'm not an early adopter kind of a guy. You can get a really nice bright projector for far less than the Sony and just buy a 4K when it becomes more mainstream and thus, less expensive.


2. I couldn't tell from the sketch, but it looks like your theater is 38 feet by 18 or 20 feet? Tell me if I'm looking at that right. I'm not a construction guy like a lot of these people on here. I'm a "find good equipment cheap" kind of a guy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth  /t/1470039/living-hope-theater#post_23418934


Darin,

I think the first thing I to do need is figure out what your goals are. Please don't take this as an insult because that's the last thing I would want to do. I am a very budget conscious AV guy myself. I've heard you say the words budget and bang for the buck more than once and we're not even off the first page of your thread yet. The reason I'm confused is because you have a $25,000 projector listed in your equipment along with a speaker package that is really expensive as well. So I have some questions:


1. Is 4K a requirement? I'm not an early adopter kind of a guy. You can get a really nice bright projector for far less than the Sony and just buy a 4K when it becomes more mainstream and thus, less expensive.


2. I couldn't tell from the sketch, but it looks like your theater is 38 feet by 18 or 20 feet? Tell me if I'm looking at that right. I'm not a construction guy like a lot of these people on here. I'm a "find good equipment cheap" kind of a guy.

LOL, no offense taken at all



With one of the AVS guys I can get the projector (refurb) for $15k. I've spoken with the rep numerous times about my set up. I am going with an AT screen which is 2.4 and 130" wide. My throw distance is 19'. That does limit some of the projectors I could use and still have a good fL on the 1.5 gain screen. That doesn't mean something else may not work but I can probably stomach $15k but I would not an extra $10k. My original budget for the screen and A/V was $25k itself. I may go over that somewhat but I should have a very nice system which is hopefully future-proofed somewhat.


Yeah, it is a pretty big space. The size yields the bigger screen, which yields the more expensive screen and projector, which yields the amps and speakers (I mean, I would hate to spend all this money and then be upset I under did speakers for example). It all seems to balloon on itself. That being said, I am certainly open to thoughts and will be looking into other receiver/amp combos like suggested above.


Here is another question on the A/V stuff...if I go with the Sony VW1000ES (which is a 4k projector and apparently does a very nice job with upconverting content) do I really need to go with an Oppo Blu Ray player or no? Same question with upconverting receiver...I'm not sure I see the point in having numerous components capable of doing the same thing. I could be missing something on this as, again, I'm new to this stuff.


Darin
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarinS  /t/1470039/living-hope-theater#post_23421887


LOL, no offense taken at all



With one of the AVS guys I can get the projector (refurb) for $15k. I've spoken with the rep numerous times about my set up. I am going with an AT screen which is 2.4 and 130" wide. My throw distance is 19'. That does limit some of the projectors I could use and still have a good fL on the 1.5 gain screen. That doesn't mean something else may not work but I can probably stomach $15k but I would not an extra $10k. My original budget for the screen and A/V was $25k itself. I may go over that somewhat but I should have a very nice system which is hopefully future-proofed somewhat.


Yeah, it is a pretty big space. The size yields the bigger screen, which yields the more expensive screen and projector, which yields the amps and speakers (I mean, I would hate to spend all this money and then be upset I under did speakers for example). It all seems to balloon on itself. That being said, I am certainly open to thoughts and will be looking into other receiver/amp combos like suggested above.


Here is another question on the A/V stuff...if I go with the Sony VW1000ES (which is a 4k projector and apparently does a very nice job with upconverting content) do I really need to go with an Oppo Blu Ray player or no? Same question with upconverting receiver...I'm not sure I see the point in having numerous components capable of doing the same thing. I could be missing something on this as, again, I'm new to this stuff.


Darin
Well with that screen size, it looks like you're stuck with 4K. Darn. I'm gonna suggest a Seymour AV screen. These guys ship fast and make a great product. If you're looking for acoustically transparent masking, look to add at least another 6K to 8K more.


As far as the second question, yes you will need a blu-ray player or a source that can play 4K content. If you do not care about 4K at this time since there isn't a lot of materials out there right now, then any blu-ray player will do. I'm gonna suggest the Oppo though. If the only reason you are getting the Sony projector is for light output, then you can save yourself 12 grand and buy an Epson or Panasonic projector. They put out plenty of light and throw a good picture as well. But they are not 4K capable. So, assuming you are going with the 4K Sony, then you will need a source (Oppo) that can pass 4K. Also, I'm assuming that you are going to have multiple HDMI sources such as DIrecTV or Dish, AppleTV, video games, etc. So, your HDMI switch will need to be able to pass 4K content as well. Your HDMI switch being your pre amp in this case. So to sum up, you need a 4K source (Oppo), 4K HDMI switch (built into your preamp), and a 4K projector.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks for the clarification. If I go with a nice pre-amp, what features/power should I be looking for in the AVR? Is it recommended to have something with the Audyssey equalizer in it?
 
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