[Shawners]

I dont want to start a internet vs BM war, but what would /have some of

you done when your not being taken care of in a retail store.

First off I DO Own My Own Retail store , and understand that you cant give away product and not make enough to cover your overhead and expences or you wont be in business long..business 101.( No I dont own a A/V store).

Secondly , I know the margin I make on a no sale is a big goose egg( O %).

You would think other business's would meet you somewhere in between Full retail and what you can buy over the net. In my business I'f I sold everything at full retail I wouldn't be in business long. I usually have to really sell myself and our business ( not just the product) , and still discount 20-30 % to get the sale.

I't burns me up when I see the a local BM sales people at my store or other area business's squeezing them or me for bigger discounts than the allready sale price they are getting. But stop in their store and they sell everything at retail , and wont bargin, or if you can get a discount its like 10% off at the most.

I'm trying to buy a rx-v2400 from the local BM.I told them I can get it over the internet , with shipping and a extended 3year warranty for around 760.00 complete ($698.00 shipped if I dont get the extended warranty).If I buy local the best they'll do is $888.00 + 64.38 tx=$952.38.

Thats around $250.00 more to buy local?

I didn't go in and make the sales rep give me his half hour to hour product listening sales presentation ( didn't even look or listen to any units), Just told him what I wanted.If they could come within a $100.00 of the shipped price of the internet prices , than they would have my $ and not have to work for it , just take it and give me my box.I even called the sales person last week to buy the unit at his price of 888.00 = tax, but the sales person didn't even call me back after calling 2x in 2 days?? ( No I didn't make a a** out of myself in the store to where the sales person wont call me back because of recognizing my name..just poor follow threw service). So what am I paying the local BM for when I didn't demo any units or ask any questions??????Its funny I called back 2 weeks later to talk with a differnt rep who wouldn't discount at all.." because we have no problem getting full retail, why should we discount the product??)

Soo would you guys pay the extra 200-250 so you can have a authorized warranty , but no good customer service , or risk a second party warranty threw a internet site but save 200-250..$$

 

[rjones3636]

I paid $825 for mine at a local B&M. Not as good as the net, but mine does have DPIIx and full Yamaha warranty. You should be able to find a better deal. Look around a little more.

 

[thebland]

Well, you are not ethically bound to purchase from the B & M as though you did venture to the store, you did not use valuable sales time nor did you have him set up a demo.


Warranty and knowing you made a legitimate purchase that gives you all of the rights and benefits of such (warranty, factory upgrades, etc.) This does have monetary value (how much is best estimated by you). This is certainly built into the price.


Buying on-line from a non-authorized retailer has inherent risks. (e.g. B-stock, rebuilt product, damaged product, third party warranty,a company that may go under when you need them, etc.). However, you may luck out and receive exactly what you want.


ME?? I'd pay the extra and take the comfort and legitimacy that it brings. Others will certainly disagree. On-line from a non-authorized dealer is inherently risky. However, it is your call (and money).

 

[Grasschopper]

F em...I did.


Well I am in a similar but slightly different situation. My local dealer doesn't even stock the product I was interested in (Yamaha 1400/2400 and Denon 3803) and not only did they want retail but I had to wait longer than if I ordered it on the net. So to recap I was expected to pay retail, wait longer, not have any chance to listen they were providing me nothing other than a location to buy it from. I walked out and bought Onkyo from another B&M in town that had the item in stock and a good price.


IMO if you have picked the Yamaha for sure and you are comfortable with the online dealer then buy it online...hey they have to make a living too right?


John

 

[CSAW]

Shawners,


Your tale is extremely similar to what I encountered when shopping for my 2400. Their is only 1 BM in town that is an authorized yamaha dealer. The place is a real **ithole, and the sales manager was less than friendly. I wanted to support the local store, but they would not budge a cent off of retail. Call some the authorized yamaha internet sites, I did this and was able to get the 2400 for around $800, even though their site listed msrp as the price. Good luck. By the way what part of Toledo do you live in, I'm a Toledo native - what store were you dealing with?

 

[kgoetz97]

Look, I can be quite cheap and all but there is no doubt in my mind that I would go with purchasing over the internet. In fact....I did!


I was one of the ones who purchased the 1400 from Famous Joe at 6th Ave. I was not in the market for a new receiver but the opportunity was excellent and I went for it. The whole purchase was wonderfully easy and the product now sits in my bedroom awaiting full installation in my new house (I did try it out to make sure all was kosher).


If your BM is not willing to work with you at all, then I would agree...let them sell to somebody else at full price and probably lose your business (and word of mouth) for a long time.....

 

[tomes]

Yes, not to start another war between bm's and online retailers(we have enough of those threads already), but it is pretty obvious that if they don't provide any service, and can make a reasonable deal (of course, this is in the eye of the beholder), then the Online way is the way to go.


I for one would love to buy from a B&M, and I will give it another shot, trying to get a rxv1400 for a price I can live with. While I could get it with 2 years warranty (not authorized) from an online dealer for 615 (including shipping, no tax either), I have told myself I am willing to pay 700 including tax at a BM. I'm hopeful it should be possible, seeing 6th managed to sell it for 530 on the internet, and probably sells it for that + tax in their store. I know some other chain bm's have been negotiated down to 640+tax as well.

 

[d.mcnutt]

Tomes, your goal appears reasonable.

 

[tubeguy44]

actually....


if any retail store can move it's products at full retail... why should they discount the items???


just like when a new sports car or SUV is introduced... and the dealers are getting $5,000 to $10,000 above sticker price....


it is called a free economy...supply and demand....


and by the way... if any of you ever managed and/or owned a business... you would probably know that most retail operations operate at about 3% profit after all expenses are taken out..... salaries, benefits, rent, paying for product, franchise fees, etc. ...only 3% profit..... grocery stores even less... usually about 1% profit....


throwing about the phrase..."i'd be willing to pay x percent above an internet price" is really meaningless to your local retailer...he/she knows what they need to sell the product for.... if there is a high demand for the product, they will not lower their prices.... if they are facing alot of local and/or internet competition...they will lower their prices... simple....


additionally.... if you are in a large metropolitan area..... your local store isn't really concerned about you getting the price that you want...... there are many more customers who will purchase their product....

 

[d.mcnutt]

Tubeguy's statement is on the money. Like any contract, you need both a willing buyer and seller agreeing to a specific price. If an agreement cannot be reached then you will have to buy elsewhere or look for something else.

 

[lomanontotempole]

I am sure in your experiances on the other side of the counter, people have not been willing to pay what you felt was a fair price (one where you made at least some profit)...Some salesmen will get quite irate with their fellow salesmen when they have gone to the warehouse to get an item for sale at full retail finding it to be out of stock because another employee has sold it for a large discount .

If you can do better elsewhere (ie; on-line) by all means do.

 

[Johnla]

Well just like a certain dealer in these forums complained to Denon and Yamaha about online vendors....

He complained to them, and so can you!


You people that are treated rudely by your local B&M dealers, should also let Denon or Yamaha know how bad they, these local B&M dealers treated you. And no I'm not saying to cry, whine, ***** and moan just because they want full retail price, as that's their prerogative to do that. But I am saying let the manufacturers KNOW about the dealers that are truly bad or rude, to their customers. Let them know that just because they are a authorized dealer, that they should not be abusive to the customers. Let Denon and Yamaha, or any other brands for that matter, know that they should not be treating people like this, just because "they can" due to the ridiculous way this entire authorized dealer thing is playing out in real life. And ask them why, you should be expected to pay full retail from a local vendor that has no stock to demo, and takes weeks to order one for you, and in fact will only do so if you commit to buying it as part of deal of them ordering it for you. When most online vendors both authorized and unauthorized many times have it in stock, and will get it to you faster than your local B&M will.

And as far as the B&M places where you must "pay full, in full, to order" a item that you can not even demo. With terms like that, even paying full MSRP at a authorized place like Crutchfield, is a way better option than a B&M like that, and they will treat you better also. And maybe if they get enough gripes about some of these "snobbish & arrogant" dealers, and they way they treat people, they might just take another look at them, and treat them the way the have some online retailers, but pulling their products from them. And it also may make them "rethink" some of their bogus policies that they have about online sales!

 

[tubeguy44]

Quote:

And as far as the B&M places where you must "pay full, in full, to order" a item that you can not even demo.

and that is any different from every online dealer how?????


hello???

 

[Johnla]

Quote:

Originally posted by tubeguy44 and that is any different from every online dealer how????? hello???

Hello!!!!

Did you even read it all?

What's the point of paying a B&M more, if they do not offer any value over the online dealer, such as demos or items in stock? All we have been hearing is how the "extra value" of a B&M is so important, and worth paying extra for. Well when they operate like that, there is no extra value in them!

 

[tubeguy44]

ok...


buy all of your equipment online...


good for you...


why bother to audition anything in person.....


just read about it in forums like this.....


and trust nameless strangers to tell you what to buy.....


they must know more than your own ears because they have posted on an internet forum.....


ooohhh yesssss... sounds like a good plan.....

 

[John Robert]

"What's the point of paying a B&M more, if they do not offer any value over the online dealer, such as demos or items in stock"


One value of a good B&M dealer is service and support after the sale. The value of this is obviously in the eye of the beholder...


John

 

[Johnla]

Quote:

Originally posted by tubeguy44 ok... buy all of your equipment online... good for you... why bother to audition anything in person..... just read about it in forums like this..... and trust nameless strangers to tell you what to buy..... they must know more than your own ears because they have posted on an internet forum..... ooohhh yesssss... sounds like a good plan.....

Easy to see, that you did not read one thing I said!

 

[Johnla]

Quote:

Originally posted by John Robert One value of a good B&M dealer is service and support after the sale.

That is, if they offer such. As some are not so great in that area either.


The really good dealers are normally not a problem, and can be well worth dealing with, as they are willing go the extra mile to help people.

But it's the other ones, that are not so good, that's not worth paying a premium for. Or with having to put up with a bunch snobbish BS where they act like they are so great, when in reality they often are not.

 

[thearthurclone]

Quote:

Originally posted by tubeguy44 ok... buy all of your equipment online... good for you... why bother to audition anything in person..... just read about it in forums like this..... and trust nameless strangers to tell you what to buy..... they must know more than your own ears because they have posted on an internet forum..... ooohhh yesssss... sounds like a good plan.....

are you intentionally not reading the posts you're responding to?

one of the points (if not the MAIN point) that was being made was in regards to vendors who do not stock and/or demo the items. in those cases, you're still trusting 'nameless strangers' who must 'know more than your own ears'...as you CAN'T hear anything that the dealer doesn't stock or let you demo.


and in my experience...dealers of that nature don't provide much if any after sales support.

 

[Johnla]

Quote:

Originally posted by thearthurclone are you intentionally not reading the posts you're responding to? one of the points (if not the MAIN point) that was being made was in regards to vendors who do not stock and/or demo the items. in those cases, you're still trusting 'nameless strangers' who must 'know more than your own ears'...as you CAN'T hear anything that the dealer doesn't stock or let you demo. and in my experience...dealers of that nature don't provide much if any after sales support.

Thank you for clearly seeing one of the points I was trying to make!