AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

local BM no discounts/service..now what

6K views 176 replies 34 participants last post by  Sounds Simple 
Well just like a certain dealer in these forums complained to Denon and Yamaha about online vendors....

He complained to them, and so can you!


You people that are treated rudely by your local B&M dealers, should also let Denon or Yamaha know how bad they, these local B&M dealers treated you. And no I'm not saying to cry, whine, ***** and moan just because they want full retail price, as that's their prerogative to do that. But I am saying let the manufacturers KNOW about the dealers that are truly bad or rude, to their customers. Let them know that just because they are a authorized dealer, that they should not be abusive to the customers. Let Denon and Yamaha, or any other brands for that matter, know that they should not be treating people like this, just because "they can" due to the ridiculous way this entire authorized dealer thing is playing out in real life. And ask them why, you should be expected to pay full retail from a local vendor that has no stock to demo, and takes weeks to order one for you, and in fact will only do so if you commit to buying it as part of deal of them ordering it for you. When most online vendors both authorized and unauthorized many times have it in stock, and will get it to you faster than your local B&M will.

And as far as the B&M places where you must "pay full, in full, to order" a item that you can not even demo. With terms like that, even paying full MSRP at a authorized place like Crutchfield, is a way better option than a B&M like that, and they will treat you better also. And maybe if they get enough gripes about some of these "snobbish & arrogant" dealers, and they way they treat people, they might just take another look at them, and treat them the way the have some online retailers, but pulling their products from them. And it also may make them "rethink" some of their bogus policies that they have about online sales!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
and that is any different from every online dealer how?????


hello???
Hello!!!!

Did you even read it all?

What's the point of paying a B&M more, if they do not offer any value over the online dealer, such as demos or items in stock? All we have been hearing is how the "extra value" of a B&M is so important, and worth paying extra for. Well when they operate like that, there is no extra value in them!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
ok...


buy all of your equipment online...


good for you...


why bother to audition anything in person.....


just read about it in forums like this.....


and trust nameless strangers to tell you what to buy.....


they must know more than your own ears because they have posted on an internet forum.....


ooohhh yesssss... sounds like a good plan.....
Easy to see, that you did not read one thing I said!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by John Robert
One value of a good B&M dealer is service and support after the sale.
That is, if they offer such. As some are not so great in that area either.


The really good dealers are normally not a problem, and can be well worth dealing with, as they are willing go the extra mile to help people.

But it's the other ones, that are not so good, that's not worth paying a premium for. Or with having to put up with a bunch snobbish BS where they act like they are so great, when in reality they often are not.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by thearthurclone
are you intentionally not reading the posts you're responding to?

one of the points (if not the MAIN point) that was being made was in regards to vendors who do not stock and/or demo the items. in those cases, you're still trusting 'nameless strangers' who must 'know more than your own ears'...as you CAN'T hear anything that the dealer doesn't stock or let you demo.


and in my experience...dealers of that nature don't provide much if any after sales support.
Thank you for clearly seeing one of the points I was trying to make!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by lomanontotempole
Doubtful...It seems, based on what went on here recently, that they feel more inclined to support the snobbish and rude brick and mortar dealers (aren't they all)
No, not all B&M dealers are like that. In fact, there are some very good ones are not even remotely like that. And they are a pleasure to deal with, and buy from.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
yes...my comments were kind of flippant...but still true....
No, they were not true. They were just poor excuses at justifying a dealer that don't either offer stock or a demo on a product you may want. And that makes them no better than a online vendor, as either way you have to order it.

And when it comes down to something like a Denon 3803 or a Yamaha 1400 or 2400, and if that kind of item is a "special order" only item, then they sure as hell or not much of a stocking dealer of anything. As those kind of receivers are the bread & butter items of the midrange products! And then if they charge a restocking fee on something like those, than they again are no better than a online sale is.

Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
even if is not in stock....


1. you have a knowledgable, informative staff

2. ok... you can't touch it or experience it.....

3. when your special order comes in.... then yes...you walk in, pick it up and take it home - no shipping charges...

4. if there is a problem, you have a local return/service point.... no return shipping charges...


hey... it's not perfect...but 3 out of 4 isn't too bad..... esp considering your internet purchase may only give you 1 out of 4.... (knowlegdable informative staff - if you call)
As for #1. Yeah, and MAYBE they are so knowledgeable, and so "good", that the sales droids at Best Buy and Radio Shack make them look dumb in comparison. Just because they have a job there, does not automatically make them knowledgeable, about what they sell, or how to use it.


As for #2. Yeah that's right you can't!


As for #3. That is the ONLY one of the 4, that's a sure thing!

(Although you may very well be paying out through the nose, to have them order it for you!!)


And for #4. Maybe yes, and maybe no! As "special orders" also may not be returnable unless defective at some B&M's, if that's their policy. And it's also very possible, that if it's a warranty issue later on and past "return window" option, that then the person who bought it may have to take it or send it to a authorized repair center. As very few places have their own onsite repair stations anymore that are authorized to do warranty work, unlike in the "old days" when most stereo shops had their own onsite repair/warranty people for anything they sold. As some B&M dealers do not even handle any warranty issues, for even so as much as sending the unit back for the customer. And that they in fact, must do that themselves.


So even in your 4 examples you gave, it can also be only 1 out of 4 is true as well, in as far as the way some B&M operate. And just as bad or even worse, as buying by mail order and online.

Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
as for crutchfield's 30 day money back guarantee... great...but you still have to pay shipping charges both ways.... read the fine print...
Oh really!! Well I suggest you go back and LOOK and read it again! As the only thing you would pay is the original shipping to you, and NOT for the return! Unless it is a item like a TV larger than 24", or some large Tower Speakers.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-2qi7mBH23iL/returns.html


Or in just case that is another thing where you don't want to read it all. Here is what they say about returns. And please notice, and pay attention to the the part about...."FREE Return Shipping"..



"30-Day Money-Back Guarantee

You can return any product within 30 days of receiving it. Just make sure it's in like-new condition, pack it all (remote, manual, etc.) securely in the original packaging, and call us for a Return Authorization number.


We'll gladly exchange it or give you a refund for the full amount of the merchandise, minus original shipping- whichever you prefer. No re-stocking fees, no questions asked.


FREE Return Shipping

Your satisfaction is so important to us, we'll even pay if you decide to send a product back! Return an item for an exchange or refund (your choice) during your evaluation period, and we'll cover the cost of return shipping.*


*TVs with screens measuring 24" or larger and some of our larger tower speakers are excluded from this offer, but there is no charge for returning damaged or defective products regardless of size."
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
johnla,


if you are so negative about your local b&m service, why do you bother even walking in to the place.....
Again, you NEVER seem to fully read what I say!

Did I ever say all my local stores were all bad? NO, I did not!

But YOU on the other hand seem to think that every local B&M is fault free, and that everyone should "bend over" for them when they are told to, and for that, you are wrong and a fool as well!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
but this forum... along with many others has alot of posters who feel the need to whine about certain topics..... ok... go for it....
And it's obvious that you yourself are not excluded from that type of posting either!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by thebland
When those say that there B&M gives bad service or doesn't stock an entire line or some other meaning less complaint, that generally translates to:


1. I can better price elsewhere.

2. I'll demo or look at the merchandise at your store,

3. I'll disparage your store & then go buy on-line.

4. Money is the be all, end all. Screw your business.....


....oh, and by the way, thanks for the demo.....
Get real! That's BS, that's only the way you see it in "your eyes" and does not reflect every online sale no matter how much you try to wish it so! And it certainly does NOT give high marks or justify B&M dealers in any way, in the ways that they may offer bad service, snobbish attitude or no in stock products and the lack of demo equipment. And you also fail to see that many are not looking for the absolute lowest possible price, but they have no desire to pay full MSRP when they know other places do deal on items. And they are looking for some flexibility of prices, but when there may be only one dealer within 100 miles like some people have, they may get greedy. So their choice is buy local and get reamed, or look elsewhere. And areas with multiple dealers that may not be such a problem.


And somehow I'm sure that all you B&M huggers and lovers, do NOT pay full MSRP when you buy your cars now do you? Or EVER haggle over the price of a car, or EVER leave one car dealer to go to another to make the final sale... Yeah right , you know you do! So why should someone who want's to buy any other product that either commonly discounted, or can be haggled for less?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
ok...


best wishes on your search for the lowest price.....


and may the gods give you all the service that you deserve and are willing to pay for......
Again, you seem to read ONLY 1/10 of what anyone says, and then you pick at it until it fits your agenda, and then you make another foolish reply to it. Much like when you were proved wrong on the Crutchfield return policy.

If you'd look back, and actually read, and by that I mean not just every 5th word or so, but rather ALL of them, and with some comprehension! Then you would see, what I have said was NEVER just about the lowest price you could possibly find!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
i carefully reread you above post a couple of times to make sure that i got your message.... all you care about is price.....


your entire post is about price.....
Wrong!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
but i did quote your entire post above so all readers can see where i took my quotes from......


i'll let everyone else decide what your priorities are..... from your own words....
Again, you pulled from one post, to make things look good only in your eyes, and ignored all the rest!

Like including back when I said "The really good dealers are normally not a problem, and can be well worth dealing with, as they are willing go the extra mile to help people."

Or when I also said "No, not all B&M dealers are like that. In fact, there are some very good ones are not even remotely like that. And they are a pleasure to deal with, and buy from."

Or when I said this "Did I ever say all my local stores were all bad? NO, I did not!"



Did you say anything about those? NO of course you did not, as all that proves you wrong on yet another few things! That you seem to have conveniently "forgot" about, that was said by me. And that YOU are the only one that's saying it all based on price, not me!


I CLEARLY have said good dealers can be very worthwhile, and crap dealers are just that, crap! And if possible, to avoid those that are crap.


You on the other hand seem to think all dealers are good, and worthy. And that people should *bend over* and take it, in the presence of the bad ones.

I honestly think if you were hit by a truck, that you would also deny that it was a truck that hit you, and blame it on something else.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by MetalMike
Bottom line this all comes down to price. Customers only want to pay the least amount possible.
No, not everyone bases it all just on the price. But people don't like poor service either, regardless of the price being low or high.

But paying more, and getting poor service is something that no one wants to do. No matter what it is they buy.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
you have consistently claimed that i have misrepresented your position.... and all i have done is quote from your posts.....


maybe you should post less.... so i can't quote you so much....
No. what you have been doing, is that you have constantly left out anything that did not look good in your eyes, so what you do quote looks better to you!


So maybe you should stop *forgetting* parts of a post in your quotes, a lot less than you have been doing!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by richard schweaty
I want to know what other criteria people NEED to see a B&M meet before they would pay even close to MSRP for, I suspect it's a standard NONE could meet.
That would depend a lot on what price range items you are buying, as something like a flagship receiver at full MSRP, can have as much as a $1500+ markup over what the dealer cost is. And something like a Denon 3803 has substantially less than that amount. Now I don't think anyone is going to be able to come up with a realistic reason of what a $1500 profit margin item should be worth to them. In as far as support and dealer extras in what they should do for them, for that kind of a markup sale.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by lomanontotempole
Even the biggest B&M hater would acknowledge that the VAST majority of consumers when making a large purchase, are going to go into a store (probably many stores, several times) to handle the gear and ,presumably ,listen to it...
Just by seeing the amount of people here in these forums, that buy things sight unseen or heard. I certainly do not see any vast majority doing what you say!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
you forget that the people that participate in these forums are the minority.... i saw a figure someplace of less than 5% of all audio/video consumers participate in this type of online forum....
Yeah you seen it here, so that's not a real solid indicator. Nor does it make it a fact!

Quote:
Originally posted by tubeguy44
there may be many people buying online..."sight unseen"... or there may be very few people buying online and those people are the ones who post on forums.....


your conclusion can not be validated.... your conclusion is not logicaly sound...
Yeah, sure.... Whatever you say Mr Spock...
 
Quote:
Originally posted by John Robert
Let me ask a question with a more positve spin. What do you think that local mid/high fi B&Ms need to do to survive (and prosper) in this on-line, global-economy, instant price compare age? The status quo does not seem to be working...
Simple.

Offer some competition to them, instead of just standing pat like some are doing now.

But it seems the ones that do try to do that, get blasted for doing so, by the ones that don't wish to compete.
 
Quote:
Originally posted by d.mcnutt
What % of consumer electronics purchasers visit forums like this? You deride the idea it is only 5%. How much then? You don't know. I suspect that 5% is a little low but I would not be surprised if it proved to be true. The fact is that the vast majority of high end purchasers do not participate in these forums IMO.
And now all of a sudden it became only high end purchasers for some reason..

Rubbish, this entire thing was never about high end purchasers in the fist place!

Take a look around this forum and you will see that a very large amount of people here, and you will see probably that the majority is more in the mid range level. And that the ones that are doing the online shopping, are the ones that are in the mid range and low range area of products, and not the high end stuff. Also I'd wager that the people that are in the higher end stuff, and that are not having a installer doing the work for them. Are also not the ones that are paying full list on the high end gear they do buy. Most people when they get into the higher end stuff, also know how to legitimately get what they want, and for usually less than full MSRP.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top