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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I have a question about the Sony KD-36XS955 TV and the HDMI input port in relation to picture size. I'll give as much detail as possible.


Untill a few days ago, the TV was connected directly to our Comcast HDTV DVR STB. It was connected from the Component Video out of the STB into the Component Video input of the TV. According to the manual this input of the TV supports 480p, 480i, 720p, and 1080i. And true to the manual, if the Comcast STB was on a SD channel the Sony would display 480i/p in the menu bar and the picture would fill in the entire screen. The exception was if the progam itself was letter box, such as some Discovery shows, there would be a small top and bottom bar. If the STB was changed to an HD channel, then the TV menu bar would show 1080i and the picture would appear in letter box.


So I know that the TV software will auto switch aspect ratios depending on the input sensed from the Component Video input.


A few days ago, I bought my wife an early Christmas present, the Logitech Revue. She is a multi-tasking nut so jumping on IMDB to look up her fav. actress in a show is perfect for her. The Revue's out put is HDMI 1.3a. So I have the STB HDMI out going to the Revue's HDMI input. Then the Revue's HDMI out going to the Sony TV's HDMI input.


This new set up work fine. The sound and picture quality are great and all the Revue Functions work great too.


The problem is that the Sony TV seems to now force all programs to Wide Screen. Did I mention the KD-36XS955 is a 4:3 HDTV? So when watching SD channels, the picture is compress down to a 4:3 aspect ration picture but it does not fill the whole screen. It's compressed down into the widescreen space so that now there are the bars at the top and bottom AND at the left and right of the picture. And to make it worse, if the program is letter box on a SD channel, I get the 16:9 letter box within the 4:3 letter box within the 16:9 letter box.


Note: this is not a problem for HD channels because these are generally widescreen already and just fill the 16:9 screen space forced by the HDMI input.


Things I've tried.


1. TV Zoom function. This zooms in too far and cuts off an inch or so left/right/top/bottom of the picture. It does however elliminate all top/bottom/left/right bars. Quality suffers some but still look decent considering it's SD anyway. Horizontal expanded and Vertical Expanded functions look even worse. Full looks best despite the bars and smaller picture.


2. I've adjusted the Aspect Ratio, Resolution, and 4:3 Override settings on the Comcast STB. I have it looking as good as possible, but this only controls the Comcast signal so TV is still just forcing that signal into the 16:9 letterbox.


3. I explored all options on the Revue and even contacted Logitech support. There are no adjustments on the Revue that impact this. The Revue simply pass the signal from the STB into the TV and adds it's own graphics layer on top.


Other Ideas?


1. Since I know that the Component input can "auto-sense" the input signal and adjust aspect accordingly, can I convert the HDMI 1.3a output from the Revue into Component Video that I can plug into the Sony Component Inputs?


2. Is there a way to reprogram the Zoom so it does not zoom in so far and cut off the picture? It's as if the Zoom is enlarging 40% and I need it enlarged only 30%.


3. Is there a way to program the HDMI port so that it behaves like the Component Video input and auto-switches between 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i? Note, I searched the manual and Onscreen menu thoroughly and did not see anything obvious.


Any other ideas or suggestions?
 

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If you connect the stb directly to the xs955 via hdmi, does the xs955 behave as it did previously, with component input, or does it behave as it now does routed through the revue?


What resolution does the xs955 report when an stb SD channel is input via hdmi directly and with the revue in the path?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii /forum/post/19632047


If you connect the stb directly to the xs955 via hdmi, does the xs955 behave as it did previously, with component input, or does it behave as it now does routed through the revue?


What resolution does the xs955 report when an stb SD channel is input via hdmi directly and with the revue in the path?

OK, very good test to suggest. I plugged the STB directy into the TV HDMI input (removing the Revue from the equation). To my suprise the TV auto-switched between 4:3/480i for SD channels and 16:9/1080i for HD channels. So my original assumption the the TV would not auto-switch for the HDMI input was completely wrong it DOES auto-switch.


So now that means the problem is the Logitech Revue unit and not my TV. It must not support a 4:3 mode. I'll contact logitech support on this one.
 

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I believe the Revue is upconverting the SD channels to a HD resolution and your XS955 does not see them as SD/480i so they are being presented as HD channels.


The Logitech troubleshooting page, Revue Picture does not fill the tv screen , implies that there are settings that may help you. You need to find a setting that will pass-through the resolutions from your cable stb.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii
I believe the Revue is upconverting the SD channels to a HD resolution and your XS955 does not see them as SD/480i so they are being presented as HD channels.


The Logitech troubleshooting page, implies that there are settings that may help you. You need to find a setting that will pass-through the resolutions from your cable stb.
Thanks again for the suggestion. I've tried working with this setting many times already. It only increases the screen size a few millimeters in either direction so that the Revue image is maximized to the viewable area of the TV. Up until this point I have not found a way to get this to switch between 16:9 and 4:3 ratio. If I tried to streatch to screen size too far beyond the letter box it gives me errors or will not save the settings.
 

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The Logitech Revue appears to be currently upconverting SD to a HD resolution and adding pillars. The easiest solution to overlaying graphics on both SD and HD is to upconvert the SD first. That being said, IMO, it would be a serious flaw if it doesn't have the option to passthrough SD. A very serious flaw that would impact many potential buyers.


When you speak to Logitech support, I suggest you try to be clear about what you need, which is the ability to passthrough SD from your cable stb to your tv without any upconversion. Discussion of 4:3/16:9 ratios may just confuse the issue.


Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii /forum/post/19634696


The Logitech Revue appears to be currently upconverting SD to a HD resolution and adding pillars. The easiest solution to overlaying graphics on both SD and HD is to upconvert the SD first. That being said, IMO, it would be a serious flaw if it doesn't have the option to passthrough SD. A very serious flaw that would impact many potential buyers.


When you speak to Logitech support, I suggest you try to be clear about what you need, which is the ability to passthrough SD from your cable stb to your tv without any upconversion. Discussion of 4:3/16:9 ratios may just confuse the issue.


Good Luck

Thanks raouliii, I think you're dead on; this is an upconversion issue. I was focussing on aspect ratio because that's what was most visible to me on the screen. But what I failed to realize that the aspect ration was just a property of the resolution. I did email logitech stated strongly that this issue is a bug. But I did give them a lot of confusin details about aspect ratio. If their techs are as smart as the folks on this form they should be able to gleen the actual problem, as you did.


But, I think I'll re-submit stating the need for SD pass through as suggested, just in case. The whole reason I bought this 4:3 HD TV at a time when widescreen was becoming the norm is because I wanted to be able to watch the classics in original format, with no stretching or window framing.


I assume Logitech will be in a perpetual state of frimware dev on these units for the time being so I'm hopeful my request will make in into an upcoming release.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
By the way, I know that the Revue is capable of sending 480i because when the unit boots up it displays a GoogleTV splash screen for about 1 sec. In that interval my TV shows that it is receiving a 480i signal. Then the next splash screen loads and it is in perpetual 1080i/ or 720p (depending on the Revue config).
 
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