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Hey guys

I inherited a surround sound system from the previous owner of my house. This week my denon aver 2808 went out and I am looking for a replacement and upgrade

Budget - $500

Here is what I have
Visio 4k p series 70 inch
Sony blue ray
Uverse cable
In wall niles speakers 5.1
Acoustech sub
Élan D1200 amp
Multi room and out door zone two speaker

Looking for
good surround for my den
Second zone for amp using other room speakers
Pandora playability
Blue tooth
Wireless connection
DHCP 2.2
Hdmi 2.0

On paper the onkyo 636 looks like the winner but I am worried about it running hot and not lasting several years. I really want this as future proof as I can get and something that will last

Was ready to buy the denon x2100w but it doesn't support dhcp 2.2. I don't need it now but would be nice to have in the future

Thoughts?
 

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I can't speak specifically to the 636 but I have a new 1030 and it runs cold to the touch just like my yamaha RX-a2000. Where as my older Onkyo 806 runs very hot to the touch, and still working 6 years in now. You should do just fine with the 636
 

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Well the Onkyo doesn't really either. It cheats. If you are looking to meet the newest standards fully you'll need to wait just a little longer.
 

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DHCP 2.2
Hdmi 2.0

On paper the onkyo 636 looks like the winner but I am worried about it running hot and not lasting several years. I really want this as future proof as I can get and something that will last

Was ready to buy the denon x2100w but it doesn't support dhcp 2.2. I don't need it now but would be nice to have in the future

Thoughts?
Would love to wait but need a reciever
Charge ahead then! :D You don't actually need an AVR that supports HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2. :eek:

All you need is an extra HDMI cable and to ensure that any native Ultra HD player in your future has a HDMI "AV separation mode" with dual HDMI outputs (similar to this Sony media player) ...I suspect many will. This mode will route audio only to the secondary HDMI output which you hook up to the AVR for processing and amplification. The primary HDMI output containing audio and video is then hooked up directly to your HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 compliant display. Job done!

With respect to the Onkyo... Even though I own an older one, I recommend you steer well clear of the current crop (x3x & x030) of Onkyos. This is mainly because Onkyo have dropped Audyssey MultEQ in favour of a very basic proprietary set-up routine (AccuEQ) to free up DSP capacity for processing Dolby Atmos etc.

With your $500 budget, this factory refurbished Denon AVR-X3100W gets you the second top tier Audyssey implementation, reasonably good power levels and has all the other connectivity features you've listed.
 

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You don't actually need an AVR that supports HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2. :eek:

Please don't listen to this guy. You actually *DO* need a HDCP 2.2 AVR.


What this guy didn't bother to explain to you was that a UltraHD BluRay player (and every other native 4K device) **REQUIRES** HDCP 2.2.


That means *every* device in your playback chain **MUST** be HDCP 2.2.


What this guy also didn't bother to explain to you is that the dual output HDMI solution won't work for 4K as it did in the past.


4K content is not only protected by HDCP 2.2, but its classified as "Type 1" content.


"Type 1" content is not allowed to be output to anything less then HDCP 2.2. End of story.


Dual HDMI output from a UltraHD player will not work.
ARC channel will not work either because of the same "Type 1" content restriction.


You simply aren't allowed to output any part of 4K (video and audio) to anything less then HDCP 2.2.
 

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We should start seeing more dual HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 Blu Ray players in the fall which will pass the 4k HDCP 2.2 video to the HDCP 2.2 4k TV and the HD audio to the AVR, so won't matter if the AVR is HDCP 2.2 or not as it is the "video" that is HDCP 2.2 protected. :)
Are you sure about that? From what I read, 4K audio is part of the "Type 1" content classification and thus wouldn't be allowed to go out to non HDCP 2.2 equipment :).
 

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I will confirm that the Sony 4K Ultra HD Media Player (FMP-X10) does let me send one HDMI cable for audio to my receiver (No HDCP 2.2) and a second HDMI to my projector that has HDCP 2.2 and works as JD mentioned. :)

We should start seeing more dual HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 Blu Ray players in the fall which will pass the 4k HDCP 2.2 video to the HDCP 2.2 4k TV and the HD audio to the AVR, so won't matter if the AVR is HDCP 2.2 or not as it is the "video" that is HDCP 2.2 protected. :)
Are you sure about that? From what I read, 4K audio is part of the "Type 1" content classification and thus wouldn't be allowed to go out to non HDCP 2.2 equipment :).
 

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I will confirm that the Sony Ultra HD Media Player (FMP-X10) does let me send one HDMI cable for audio to my receiver (No HDCP 2.2) and a second HDMI to my projector that has HDCP 2.2 and works as JD mentioned. :)
Do you know if the 4K movies on that are Type 1 protected? :). If not, the restriction doesn't apply to the video either. UltraHD BluRay and 4K STBs are a whole different ball game as well :).
 

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No sure, but I do know the Sony 4K player will only display video with HDCP 2.2. But not the case with audio.

Do you have a link to the info about "type 1"? Never read about it and would love to know. Thanks.

Do you know if the 4K movies on that are Type 1 protected? :). If not, the restriction doesn't apply to the video either. UltraHD BluRay and 4K STBs are a whole different ball game as well :).
 

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No sure, but I do know the Sony 4K player will only display video with HDCP 2.2. But not the case with audio.

Do you have a link to the info about "type 1"? Never read about it and would love to know. Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection#Versions_Highlights


Introduced in 2.1 IIA and 2.2 IIA limits it even further since 2.0 and 2.1 were broken.


http://www.digital-cp.com/files/static_page_files/F3FDE47C-1A4B-B294-D0802DFEF646E602/HDCP%20on%20HDMI%20Specification%20Rev2_2_Final1.pdf


The actual HDCP spec itself... see page 61 :).


Even if it is allowed to relay the audio portion regardless of the Type 1 flag, I'd be concerned about devices that only have 1 HDMI output like 4K STBs and "affordable" UHD players. Personally I'd just get a HDCP 2.2 AVR and lose sleep over a different aspect of the 4K transition instead LOL like HDR and rec2020 :).
 

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The dual output may be fine for blu-ray, but what happens when other 4K media players become available? Do you want to run two 2 hdmi cables from every device? Hope your TV has a lot of HDCP 2.2 HDMI inputs.

If you're in a hurry, I believe Pioneer has some new models that support HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 at 18Gbps. Not sure if they're available yet, but if not, should be available soon.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-1130-K

One more wrench to throw in is there's a new HDMI standard 2.0a which supports HDR. I believe HDR may still work properly with 2.0, but i'm not 100% sure. Of course you're TV would need to support HDR for it to work.
 

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Do you want to run two 2 hdmi cables from every device? Hope your TV has a lot of HDCP 2.2 HDMI inputs.

ne more wrench to throw in is there's a new HDMI standard 2.0a which supports HDR. I believe HDR may still work properly with 2.0, but i'm not 100% sure. Of course you're TV would need to support HDR for it to work.
Excellent point as well on 2 cables from every device :). One other wrinkle with the 2 cable solution is if you do have enough inputs on your TV, you now need to switch inputs in 2 places (AVR and TV).

Yeah, everybody seems to think 2.0A is a firmware update to 2.0. Not sure yet myself.
 

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The dual output may be fine for blu-ray, but what happens when other 4K media players become available? Do you want to run two 2 hdmi cables from every device? Hope your TV has a lot of HDCP 2.2 HDMI inputs.
Doubtful the vast majority with a 4k HDCP 2.2 TV will have more than just one 4k HDCP 2.2 source device and for those that do, there are HDMI switches if not enough inputs on the TV are available. :)
 

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Doubtful the vast majority with a 4k HDCP 2.2 TV will have more than just one 4k HDCP 2.2 source device and for those that do, there are HDMI switches if not enough inputs on the TV are available. :)
Or you could wait a few weeks and buy a receiver that will do the switching. Seems like a far simpler and less expensive solution to me.

The Pioneers are supposed to be available May 1st.
 

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Doubtful the vast majority with a 4k HDCP 2.2 TV will have more than just one 4k HDCP 2.2 source device and for those that do, there are HDMI switches if not enough inputs on the TV are available. :)
Really?

UltraHD BluRay Player requires HDCP 2.2
DISH Joey 4K / DirecTV Genie 4K / 4K cable STB all require HDCP 2.2

Those are two 4K devices that is reasonable to expect for any 4K consumer to have.

That'll need 4 HDMI cables for the 2 cable solution (even though as discussed above, that won't even actually work due to Type 1 content restrictions -- maybe -- still unknown til we see a 4K STB or 4K UltraBluRay player).

I do feel fairly confident that the final production version of the Joey 4K and the Genie 4K will have a *single* HDCP 2.2 output, as the "working prototype" for the Joey 4K has already been shown and it had a *single* HDCP 2.2 output.

Even worse then that... try explaining to the wife that for TV she needs to set the TV to input 3 and the AVR to input 7 and for BluRay she needs to set the TV to input 1 and the AVR to input 2.

I get that you are a seller and that you need to sell stuff "now", but sorry, that is just bad advice for most people.
 

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^^
I've been a forum member providing assistance for over 8 years .... working with AVScience for just over 1. ;)

The OP is waiting to purchase a new HDCP 2.2 AVR. I get that, but many others will want to save some money by purchasing a 2014 model. Also note, that until cable/Sat boxes are able to pass HD audio other than DD+, connecting the HDMI to the TV and optical/coax digital to the AVR will provide virtually the same "audio" experience. We can just agree to stand by our own opinions. ;)
 

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^^
I've been a forum member providing assistance for over 8 years .... working with AVScience for just over 1. ;)

The OP is waiting to purchase a new HDCP 2.2 AVR. I get that, but many others will want to save some money by purchasing a 2014 model. Also note, that until cable/Sat boxes are able to pass HD audio other than DD+, connecting the HDMI to the TV and optical/coax digital to the AVR will provide virtually the same "audio" experience. We can just agree to stand by our own opinions. ;)
That's wonderful. Unfortunately, as I indicated above, the DISH Joey 4K only has a *single* HDCP 2.2 HDMI output with no option to break out the audio. So what will someone do in that case? :)

For the UHD BluRay players, generally, dual HDMI outputs are reserved for the higher end units (that the mainstream folks are not going to pay for) :)...

Finally, you mentioned using an HDMI switch as an alternative? Can you recommend one? I have not seen ANY HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 switches on the market yet except for one made by Geffen that's $500 :). Oh, and that Geffen switch for $500 is only 10Gbps :).

So, I'm not quite sure how any of your recommenedations are going to work?? The HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 switch would theoretically work... if there is one on the market :) which I haven't been able to find :). And at $500, you'd be better off just putting that $$$ into an AVR that does HDCP 2.2 :).
 
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