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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As the title says, I'm looking for a very hard hitting sub for a home theater system. It will only be used for music at parties. The room which it will be in is pretty big (probably about 20 X 20) and also a twice as high ceiling. I have looked into some powered sobwoofers (at bestbuy) and they dont seem to cut it, they dont hit hard and low enough. They would probably dissipate more in such a big room. I dont care much about the quality.


I have a reciever right now (Kenwood VR 255- puts out 50W X 5 I think) This reciever also has a subwoofer preout.


This is what I had in mind and I was wondering if I could get some input as to whether this will work/worth the money/sound good. I am planning on getting:


Alpine type-r dual voice coil 12in- 500W RMS A car sub :)

Crown XLS 202 Power Amp- 500W RMS @4ohms

Q-logic Ported Box


This all comes out to a total of about $400.


I am planning on hooking up the sub pre out to the mic inputs of the amplifier. and then hooking up the dual voice coil sub in parallel to the amp. The sub preout should eliminate the need for a crossover.


BOTTOM LINE: I am looking for something loud and hard hitting for music only, and will be used basically for parties. My overall buget is no more than $400. I have pretty good floor speakers and the reciever is decent. What do you guys recommend. Is my plan good/tweak it a bit, or is my best bet with a powered sub??



EDIT: I looked at the STF-2. It says its a 200W amp. Would this sub hit harder/same than my setup above? Why is it so expensive? Is it a lot cleaner?


EDIT 2: room dimensions changed
 

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No. Car subs won't do it. They are made to drive into tiny little spaces, like -- uhh -- cars.


Besides, the way car subs hit insane volume levels is through the use of bandpass boxes that essentially produce one note. Is that what you're after?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
No. Car subs won't do it. They are made to drive into tiny little spaces, like -- uhh -- cars.


Besides, the way car subs hit insane volume levels is through the use of bandpass boxes that essentially produce one note. Is that what you're after?


Well, I'm getting a ported box. My friend had two 10in car subs in his room and they hit hard from a sony reciever putting out 100W to them. I am esentially looking for low, deep, and very hard hitting bass that you can feel to party songs. It should be able to fill a good amound of the room too, so it should be loud. That is all it'll be used for. I dont really need range or very clear sound. As long as its not distorted.
 

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I, or others, could take the time to answer all your questions - or we direct you to the DIY sections of multiple forums for you to get the information. Here are my quick and dirty suggestion:


Buy three of the Dayton 12" powered subs from PartsExpress or,

Buy a Cerwin Vega powered sub or,

Buy a new or used pro sub and use a cheap amp to power it or,

Spend a little more $ and get a sub that will serve all your needs.


JP
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by zora
I, or others, could take the time to answer all your questions - or we direct you to the DIY sections of multiple forums for you to get the information. Here are my quick and dirty suggestion:


Buy three of the Dayton 12" powered subs from PartsExpress or,

Buy a Cerwin Vega powered sub or,

Buy a new or used pro sub and use a cheap amp to power it or,

Spend a little more $ and get a sub that will serve all your needs.


JP
Well, could you direct me to some place that can give me input on hard hitting subs or something? I have looked and couldnt find anything. Thanks! BTW, is my setup just completely pointless or would it get the job done?
 

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Car subs are not designed for large rooms, and since cars do not typically have standing wave problems in the low-end, it's no wonder that car stereos have such a solid "gut-punching" bass response.

Ain't gonna happen the same way in a big cubical room unless you install large bass traps, and purchase a fairly burly sub.


Personally, I would be looking at (4) 12" or 15" down-firing powered subs for a 20x20 party room.

(down-firing woofers are less likely to be kicked by wandering feet)

The tube-shaped SVS subs seem like a natural choice for this sort of thing.

Your budget is pretty skinny though, considering the type of performance you're after.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by snickelfritz
Car subs are not designed for large rooms, and since cars do not typically have standing wave problems in the low-end, it's no wonder that car stereos have such a solid "gut-punching" bass response.

Ain't gonna happen the same way in a big cubical room unless you install large bass traps, and purchase a fairly burly sub.


Personally, I would be looking at (4) 12" or 15" down-firing powered subs for a 20x20 party room.

(down-firing woofers are less likely to be kicked by wandering feet)

The tube-shaped SVS subs seem like a natural choice for this sort of thing.

Your budget is pretty skinny though, considering the type of performance you're after.


Ok, I was looking at some of the SVS subs. All I can really afford is the PB10, the smallest cube sub. Would this sub work for a much smaller room? Like 10X10? Also, out of the PB12 cube which goes for$600 and the 25-31PCi tube which goes for $550, which one would hit better, the initial thump of the base, and why?
 

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Get the 25-31PCi subs and save up for a 2nd one. If you really want "car bass" in a house, 1 in that room would be close but 2 of these in that room would work.


Also, try to look for a used 25-31PC+ sub.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skreemer7
I am planning on hooking up the sub pre out to the mic inputs of the amplifier. and then hooking up the dual voice coil sub in parallel to the amp. The sub preout should eliminate the need for a crossover.
You may run into problems hooking a line out into a mic input. A Mic input is normally looking for a MIC. My understanding is that MIC inputs and PHONO inputs are specific to the device. Line, Tape and Aux inputs are a little more universal.


Enjoy.
 

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"(probably about 20 X 20) and also a twice as high ceiling"


So: 20'x20'x40' = 16000 cuft

Thats sort of a wierd dimension... correct me if I am wrong.


that is a huge volume. If you want the type of bass typical inside cars, you will need at least 4 SVS 25-31's.


Actually probably 4 avalanch 18" subs in an Infinite baffle set up would be good. Since car subs are sort of set up in an infinite baffle.


If you room is really 16,000 cuft, there is no way 400$ will come close to being enough to pressurize that space.
 

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Ubid recently had some Cerwin Vega VMAX 15" subs for under $100 shipped. Get a pair of those and put them in very large ported enclosures. The specs on the sub looked very good but I couldn't find any reviews to determine sound quality. If they are like any other CV sub, they will be loud and sound decent.


Get a decent pro amp like a Nady to power them.


We can help you with the enclosure design after you get the speakers.


-Robert
 

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Maybe you could go to a Guitar Center or some other place where they sell pro-audio stuff and tell them what you want to do. I don't see how you can do it for $400 though. The fact that you don't mind if it sounds like a$$ probably makes it a little easier. :p


You will probably have to do a DIY project to keep costs down. I have a 25-31 PC+ and it won't hit as hard as what you are talking about in my house with less cubic feet and it is the second loudest SVS tube sub behind the Ultra.


As others said it is very difficult to hit "car audio" levels in a big room. You throw in doing it for cheap and it is next to impossible. The car audio thing you describe might be the cheapest way to get the loudest and definitely the worst bass.
 

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I really think you're going to ultimately need multiple subs for a space that large.

Decide which model, then buy them as you can afford them.

IMO, you should not consider anything less than a 12" driver, and 15" would be better.

(4 x 12" drivers = 27" of cone area; twice the surface area of a single very expensive 18" driver)


BTW, beyond the sheer internal volume of the room, part of your problem is the proportions of the space; cubes and squares are not good for reproducing tight, punchy, "hard-hitting" bass.


DIY Bass traps are easy to construct and relatively inexpensive.

A good $400 sub is probably going to sound punchier and smoother in a room treated with $600 worth of bass traps, than a $1000 sub in a completely untreated room.

It is virtually impossible to have too many bass traps in an enclosed room; more traps always equals better bass.

It is by far the best investment you can make in the quest for good bass.

Food for thought.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skreemer7
BOTTOM LINE: I am looking for something loud and hard hitting for music only, and will be used basically for parties. My overall buget is no more than $400. I have pretty good floor speakers and the reciever is decent. What do you guys recommend. Is my plan good/tweak it a bit, or is my best bet with a powered sub??
For music only, you probably don't need a super deep response. Take a look at the specs of most pro sound-reinforcement subs; they generally are tuned for 30-40Hz and up to maximize the output where most of the energy in music is. Given your budget, fighting for super deep (20Hz or below) extension will result in trade-offs in the maximum output that you're looking for. I do think your best bet is pro amp, with 2 x 12" (at least) drivers a large ported DIY enclosure. The box, however, should be designed with your goals in mind, not an off the shelf car box.
 

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If you insist on using car subs in your house I would suggest you take a close look at JL Audio. They are very clean for a car sub and have a lot of punch. I have heard them demode by one of my dealers in a sound room with an HT set up. Their sound quality is about as close as you can get to a home sub. Good luck.


Ian
 

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I agree with wleehendrick - an SVS or avalanche is definitely not what the OP is after. Those are geared more towards low extension and sound quality, not giant spl for party music.


You should go to www.partsexpress.com and look for an affordable 12" or 15" driver with very high sensitivity. If you can, buy two of them.


You will save money by building your own box out of MDF and a pvc or sonotube port. The cheapest pro amp you can find will do the trick if the sensitivity on the drivers is high. Tune the box to about 30hz and you will be good to go.
 

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Good point. A Cerwin-Vega style full-ranges with maybe 15" woofs should be fine down to the 30 Hz range and provide some real impact. Those puppies were made to play LOUD and clean, and with a decent amp would be just what he's looking for. Look for a pair of used CVs on eBay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Wow, this is amazing response guys. One quick newbie question..... what does it mean when people say pro amp. Is that a company, or just a type of amp. Could some one link me to one they are thinking off at ebay or something? Thanks
 
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