AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I currently have a 7.1 speaker setup composed of Paradigm Signature speakers (S8 for front L/R, S2 for rear, C5 for center, and ADP Surround for sides).
I'm not sure what version of the Signature line these are, but I purchased whatever version was the latest as on late 2006.

I am looking to upgrade my system to support Dolby Atmos, so I'll go from my current 7.1 setup to either a 7.1.2 or a 5.1.4. Hence, I am looking to purchase a pair of Atmos speakers to install in the ceiling (halfway between my front L/R and side surrounds). These speakers can either be in-ceiling (so need to drill a couple of holes in the ceiling) or bookshelf-style speakers (but I would need to find a way to ceiling-mount them [can't wall mount them]).

I want the new speakers to be timbre matched to my existing Paradigm Signature speakers.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what Atmos speakers to use for the ".2" in "7.1.2? I saw this web page: https://www.paradigm.com/en/atmos-dts-x.
But, not sure which would timbre match my existing Signature speakers, or if I should consider non-Paradigm speakers. Suggestions, anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,473 Posts
I currently have a 7.1 speaker setup composed of Paradigm Signature speakers (S8 for front L/R, S2 for rear, C5 for center, and ADP Surround for sides).
I'm not sure what version of the Signature line these are, but I purchased whatever version was the latest as on late 2006.

I am looking to upgrade my system to support Dolby Atmos, so I'll go from my current 7.1 setup to either a 7.1.2 or a 5.1.4. Hence, I am looking to purchase a pair of Atmos speakers to install in the ceiling (halfway between my front L/R and side surrounds). These speakers can either be in-ceiling (so need to drill a couple of holes in the ceiling) or bookshelf-style speakers (but I would need to find a way to ceiling-mount them [can't wall mount them]).

I want the new speakers to be timbre matched to my existing Paradigm Signature speakers.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what Atmos speakers to use for the ".2" in "7.1.2? I saw this web page: https://www.paradigm.com/en/atmos-dts-x.
But, not sure which would timbre match my existing Signature speakers, or if I should consider non-Paradigm speakers. Suggestions, anyone?
One AVS member who went with Polk in ceilings to RSL in ceilings for Atmos opined the difference in "stepping up" was minimal, though he loved the RSLs, and that timbre matching was not something to sweat over unlike the front three.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
858 Posts
That makes zero sense, as with atmos sound tracks, the heights are often an extension of the front three. Any sound you are taking away from the front speakers are now being played by the height channels. If you don't match them, you are only adding a height layer at the expensive of worse overall sound quality. It's not like the atmos speakers are playing "bonus" sounds you wouldn't otherwise get.

Don't let people who can't appreciate the nuances between speakers influence that information you spread.

Now more effectively, to the OP, have you checked to see if the paradigm signature in ceilings are still available? Even if not on the web site, you should!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,822 Posts
Does anyone have any suggestions for what Atmos speakers to use for the ".2" in "7.1.2? I saw this web page: https://www.paradigm.com/en/atmos-dts-x.
But, not sure which would timbre match my existing Signature speakers, or if I should consider non-Paradigm speakers. Suggestions, anyone?
Technically?

https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceiling-speakers/sig-15r-v3

Though I think these would do fine too:

https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceiling-speakers/ci-elite-e80-r

A lot of coin. You CAN spend less and still get really good speakers that might not be an EXACT match - mixed philosophies on how important this is from it ain't to it is very much so. If you can do it, it can't hurt. But if you can't for whatever reason, look for something with at least similar performance characteristics and tweeter design (and even that isn't an absolute, but it's a good place to start.....)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yeah, from my online research and what was mentioned in above posts, it seems that one of the following are the likely candidates:
- Paradigm SIG-1.5R V.3, or
- CI Elite E80-R or
- CI Pro P80-R

I'm not sure if I really want/need to spend the $$ on the SIG or CI Elite, though. Interesting how Paradigm's web site quotes the prices for each speaker (as opposed to price for a pair of speakers), so cost is double what one would initially assume.

Yeah, given how much I spent on my existing Paradigm Signature speakers (back in 2006), it seems that I should go all out and get the SIG or CI Elite but I don't know if I would really appreciate the difference between them and the CI Pro when watching movies. While I appreciate my existing Signature S8 for front L/R and C5 for center, my existing rears and surrounds (Signature S2 for rears and ADP for surrounds) are probably overkill (but back then, I wanted an exact timbre match and had $$ burning a hole in my pocket... plus it was back in the days when I listened to SACD so rears/surrounds were a higher priority than compared to now. Now, I use my home theater for movies 99% of the time and only 1% of the time for music).

These days, it's not easy to go to an audio store and listen to different speakers and so need to rely on forums to get more info before purchasing these speakers without having heard them.... So, if anyone has the Elite, the SIG or the Pro, I'd like to hear from you.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,822 Posts
Now, I use my home theater for movies 99% of the time and only 1% of the time for music).

These days, it's not easy to go to an audio store and listen to different speakers and so need to rely on forums to get more info before purchasing these speakers without having heard them.... So, if anyone has the Elite, the SIG or the Pro, I'd like to hear from you.
You should give upmixed music a spin with the height speakers! It's rather nice, in my opinion, and probably more important tan movies for more closely matching the speakers. Not to discount the importance in movies, I just personally give the edge to music for this.

You should hit up the Paradigm Owners thread - several Pro and Elite owners there - not sure about Sig architecturals, but I'm sure somebody can comment! I think the Elites would do you well. They are the technical match for my mains, but I actually did go another route and I think what I ended up with is quite nice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,473 Posts
That makes zero sense, as with atmos sound tracks, the heights are often an extension of the front three. Any sound you are taking away from the front speakers are now being played by the height channels. If you don't match them, you are only adding a height layer at the expensive of worse overall sound quality. It's not like the atmos speakers are playing "bonus" sounds you wouldn't otherwise get.

Don't let people who can't appreciate the nuances between speakers influence that information you spread.

Now more effectively, to the OP, have you checked to see if the paradigm signature in ceilings are still available? Even if not on the web site, you should!
If you are horrified by surround speakers that don't "match" in brand and model line then yes, it would be an "issue" for you.

But if you have experienced a "matched" 5.1 system and then that system "morphed" into an "unmatched" system with, (as in my case), an upgrade of the front three, (from a completely different brand no less), and didn't lose a bit of enjoyment/immersion then I think obsessing over "matching" Atmos is immaterial.

Some have even suggested that the ceiling speakers be on ceiling cabinet speakers to match the other cabinet speakers in order to be completely "correct."

For most that is a bridge too far.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,822 Posts
Some have even suggested that the ceiling speakers be on ceiling cabinet speakers to match the other cabinet speakers in order to be completely "correct."


Not to mention, might look funky, especially in a non-dedicated space that isn't dark to hide them, low ceilings, etc....:eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
I have Paradigm Signature series mains, effects and center and am using Paradigm CI Pro P65-R for ATMOS and rear speakers. They sound great overall with my system. Seems to match well enough even though the tweeters are a bit different. https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceiling-speakers/ci-pro-p65-r
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Paradigm got back to my question. They recommended the Paradigm Sig-1.5R:

https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceiling-speakers/sig-15r-v3

Quite expensive though! The Pro or Elite lines look good too, so need to think about this more.
I had an all Paradigm 7.1 speaker setup and wanted to add Atmos speakers similar to what you are asking, for a 7.1.4 setup. I'm NOT of fan of in-wall/in-ceiling speakers, as they will never sound the same as speakers in a cabinet (unless they are of the kind that ARE in a cabinet), so if you are concerned with timbre matching, I'd avoid them (IMO). On the other hand, the Atmos speakers will mostly be used for atmospherics and sound effects, so you're not going to hear a lot of sound coming from these compared to your mains.

If you are willing to be a little flexible on your quest to maintain an all Paradigm setup, you might consider SVS Prime Elevation speakers (https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-elevation). They can be wall or ceiling mounted and can be easily aimed toward your listening area. They sound great, and they are a quarter the price of those SIGs.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,822 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yeah, apparently not only are the Paradigm Sig-1.5R speakers a timber match but they are also a $$$$ match as well 🙂. I got my existing Paradigm Signature speakers back when I was still into SACD, but these days I use my system almost exclusively for movies...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I had an all Paradigm 7.1 speaker setup and wanted to add Atmos speakers similar to what you are asking, for a 7.1.4 setup. I'm NOT of fan of in-wall/in-ceiling speakers, as they will never sound the same as speakers in a cabinet (unless they are of the kind that ARE in a cabinet), so if you are concerned with timbre matching, I'd avoid them (IMO). On the other hand, the Atmos speakers will mostly be used for atmospherics and sound effects, so you're not going to hear a lot of sound coming from these compared to your mains.

If you are willing to be a little flexible on your quest to maintain an all Paradigm setup, you might consider SVS Prime Elevation speakers (https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-elevation). They can be wall or ceiling mounted and can be easily aimed toward your listening area. They sound great, and they are a quarter the price of those SIGs.
The SVS Prime Elevation speakers look like they were well designed for flexibility in installment. I'll look at them more.

Also, I was wondering about how in-ceiling speakers would match with regular (boxed) speakers even if they are in the same product line (such as Paradigm Signatures). My existing rear and side surrounds are Signature speakers (box, not in-ceiling). In my home, I could not put these side speakers in the walls (I have windows on the side) or the rear speakers on the back of the room (I also have windows on the back) or on the floor (kids would trip on them). So, my only choice was to put them on the ceiling (yeah, so my system is not quite 7.1 but one can kid that they are a 3.1.4 in today's parlance since my rear and side surrounds are technically in the ceiling... but they do serve their purpose just fine as rear/side surrounds while being in the ceiling, so I'lll treat the system as 7.1. When I add 2 height speakers, I can then change my system to 7.1.2, or maybe 5.1.4 where the existing sides will be used as height speakers and a new pair of heights would serve as the 2nd pair of heights. My existing side and rear speakers are very very heavy speakers and I could not find any off-the-shelf speaker mounts that can handle their weights. So, using cardboard. I made an exact size replica for the box in cardboard. I bought the cardboard models to a metal shop and they fabricated the model into a hard metal and painted them nice flas black. I had four of these made for my rear and side surrounds. They work great. So, other option is, if I can buy a pair of Paradigm S2s (to match my existing pair), then I can use them for height surrounds. They'd be closer match than even the inceiling Signatues. Challenge would be finding Paradigm S2s.... I guess their not made anymore and may cost still a bit in eBay (and questionable how good they'd still be given they would be used.

But this reminds me that I have an od old pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 20 bookshelf speakers that might be a good enough match for the Signature S2. I already created a ceiling mounted box or them years ago when I used them in another room. Now, I can only find where I put these speakers and the metal enclusures, they may do just fine..
I also have, someowhere in my house, an old pair of
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Ah, after searching my home for a couple of hours, I found my old pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 20 (v2) bookshelf speakers (buried deep down in a closet).
So, I currently have a 7.1 setup (Paradigm Signature S8 for front L/R, C5 for center, ADP Surround for L/R Sides, and S2 for L/R rears; surrounds and rears are ceiling mounted currently since there is no other place to put them).

I just got the Marantz AV7705 to replace my old Marantz AV8801. So now, I'll be setting up Dolby Atmos. I'm thinking of setting up a 5.1.4 system (or 7.1.2). For example:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/speaker-setup-guides/5.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide.html

I'm thinking of using the old Paradigm Reference Studio 20 speakers as the Left and Right top front overhead speakers (i.e. they go on the ceiling [using custom made ceiling mounts] between the Front L/R speakers and the main listening position - these are speakers 6 in the aforementioned Dolby 5.1.4 page).

Granted, Paradigm Reference Studio 20 speakers are not part of the Paradigm Signature line, but maybe they are close enough to the Signature line for movie-only overhead speakers (plus they are "free" since I already have them)???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
374 Posts
If you are horrified by surround speakers that don't "match" in brand and model line then yes, it would be an "issue" for you.

But if you have experienced a "matched" 5.1 system and then that system "morphed" into an "unmatched" system with, (as in my case), an upgrade of the front three, (from a completely different brand no less), and didn't lose a bit of enjoyment/immersion then I think obsessing over "matching" Atmos is immaterial.

Some have even suggested that the ceiling speakers be on ceiling cabinet speakers to match the other cabinet speakers in order to be completely "correct."

For most that is a bridge too far.
^^ Agreed!! I have three Ascends CMT 340's for my front stage and use Klipsch in ceiling for atmos. I invite anyone to come over and listen then tell me if they really think they don't timbre match or hear the difference in sound ;)
So OP, I would use what you had laying around and you will be fine :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: gajCA

·
Registered
Joined
·
604 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
^^ Agreed!! I have three Ascends CMT 340's for my front stage and use Klipsch in ceiling for atmos. I invite anyone to come over and listen then tell me if they really think they don't timbre match or hear the difference in sound ;)
So OP, I would use what you had laying around and you will be fine :)
Yeah, given that I found my Paradigm Studio 20's, they're basically free, so it makes the decision easier... and for the saved money, I can buy a 2nd subwoofer which will make a bigger difference/improvement overall!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,019 Posts
Yeah, from my online research and what was mentioned in above posts, it seems that one of the following are the likely candidates:
- Paradigm SIG-1.5R V.3, or
- CI Elite E80-R or
- CI Pro P80-R
Also, I was wondering about how in-ceiling speakers would match with regular (boxed) speakers even if they are in the same product line (such as Paradigm Signatures).

My existing side and rear speakers are very very heavy speakers and I could not find any off-the-shelf speaker mounts that can handle their weights. So, using cardboard. I made an exact size replica for the box in cardboard. I bought the cardboard models to a metal shop and they fabricated the model into a hard metal and painted them nice flas black. I had four of these made for my rear and side surrounds. They work great.

But this reminds me that I have an od old pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 20 bookshelf speakers that might be a good enough match for the Signature S2. I already created a ceiling mounted box or them years ago when I used them in another room.
How did Studio 20s end up working out? Was Atmos a worthwhile upgrade?

@randman
know old thread, but your posts really hit home. Had similar worry about timbre matching Paradigms, and I'm sure others as well.

Local dealer dissuaded me from in wall with custom boxes, and turned me on to Paradigm Stylus outdoor speakers that come with nice adjustable brackets. Really easy to mount and by mounting the bracket off horizontal (at an angle) can really easily aim speaker exactly at main listening position.

Running 7.2.4 with Studio 20 v5s for base layer and Stylus 470 for Atmos right now. Originally got 270, since crossing over everything at 80 hz thought they would be good enough match for studio 20s. Dealer recommended 470s as you "wanted to match box size". Regardless, he was right, better match for the studio 20's even crossed over at 80hz.

I think your custom brackets with Studio 20's probably awesome and still think about going that route someday, but was worried about ported design mounted near boundary. Stylus are sealed boxes, but since Studio 20s are front ports probably fine. Some say even rear port OK if bracket keeps port at least 2 inches from wall/ceiling.

Care to upload a pic of your brackets? I'm probably not the only one interested.

in the pursuit of timbre matching, dealer said he had one customer actually mount matching towers to ceiling! (how bout them custom brackets lol!) Honestly i think while his towers were "perfectly timbre matched" imaging with smaller speakers would probably better, (which is part of the point of object oriented sound).



@macming
atmos was nice upgrade, but for good Atmos, room might matter as much as timbre matched speakers.

My theater in bat cave portion of 1700 sqft unfinished, irregular shaped basement with 10 foot concrete walls on 3 sides of walkout. You can imagine, regardless of room correction and speaker placement, imaging was still not the best... which kind of defeats the point of Atmos. It was nice, but... then got 16 bags of rockwool. Room is still by no means perfect, but imaging now good enough that I have gotten up (more than once) to put my ear to center channel to make sure I was listing to music in stereo. Got up before some, but now it can be Atmos worthy spooky good at times! :)
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top