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Discussion Starter #1
Recently experienced a loss of various equipment and appliances in a storm related electrical surge.

Currently looking for a replacement AVR. The unit being replaced is an older Yamaha RX-V463. Due to age and limitations on HDMI ports, etc I had been running my devices through the TV and outputting the sound to the AVR, so my setup is a little backwards from what most you run.

A potential replacement candidate is the Yamaha Aventage RX-A780. Best price I've seen is $539. I'm willing to spend up to about $700 if needed, but would prefer the $500-600 range, or less should you have a good recommendation.

To give you an idea of devices I will be hooking up via HDMI:

- 75-80" 4k HDTV (my Sharp 80" will be replaced)
- Xbox One X (already replaced) w/ Bluray
- Roku4
- Chromecast
- Cox Contour DVR

One of the weaknesses of my old Yamaha unit was sometimes there was a delay in lip movement & speech. I tweaked a little, and it wasn't noticeable to most people.

I might note a final restriction on the replacement unit is the height. The cabinet I have all my gear is limiting. The current Yamaha 463 is right at 6" tall and I have to take off the hinges and flip down door to squeeze the unit in through the FRONT of the cabinet. Once inside, there is additional vertical height. It's just the clearance of getting past the front. On the back, it has a 1/4" plywood type backing on the unit. If needed I could cut a hole in that and feed from the back instead. Doing that would allow me to go 7-8" in height. The A780 measures 6.75" so that was my plan for installing it if I decide to purchase.

Really looking for some solid recommendations, so I look forward to your comments on the Yamaha along with any other potential candidates (Denon, Onkyo, etc).
 

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Recently experienced a loss of various equipment and appliances in a storm related electrical surge.



Currently looking for a replacement AVR. The unit being replaced is an older Yamaha RX-V463. Due to age and limitations on HDMI ports, etc I had been running my devices through the TV and outputting the sound to the AVR, so my setup is a little backwards from what most you run.



A potential replacement candidate is the Yamaha Aventage RX-A780. Best price I've seen is $539. I'm willing to spend up to about $700 if needed, but would prefer the $500-600 range, or less should you have a good recommendation.



To give you an idea of devices I will be hooking up via HDMI:



- 75-80" 4k HDTV (my Sharp 80" will be replaced)

- Xbox One X (already replaced) w/ Bluray

- Roku4

- Chromecast

- Cox Contour DVR



One of the weaknesses of my old Yamaha unit was sometimes there was a delay in lip movement & speech. I tweaked a little, and it wasn't noticeable to most people.



I might note a final restriction on the replacement unit is the height. The cabinet I have all my gear is limiting. The current Yamaha 463 is right at 6" tall and I have to take off the hinges and flip down door to squeeze the unit in through the FRONT of the cabinet. Once inside, there is additional vertical height. It's just the clearance of getting past the front. On the back, it has a 1/4" plywood type backing on the unit. If needed I could cut a hole in that and feed from the back instead. Doing that would allow me to go 7-8" in height. The A780 measures 6.75" so that was my plan for installing it if I decide to purchase.



Really looking for some solid recommendations, so I look forward to your comments on the Yamaha along with any other potential candidates (Denon, Onkyo, etc).
Most AVRs have very similar features. The difference in price is based on how many speakers it can handle. If your set up is 5.1, almost any AVR will be able to do.

However, room correction is one feature that is new and different in different AVRs. And it makes a huge difference.

I would recommend getting an AVR with Audyssey XT32 room correction.

Your 80" tv will be expensive and will last for 10 years. Similarly the AVR will last for 10 years or more. So I would recommend getting the right AVR even if it is a few hundred dollars more expensive.

Second, speakers make a lot more impact on sound quality than AVR. Also, a sub, if you don't have it now, is a must.

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most new receivers are "networked" - they have either an Ethernet port or support wifi or both. Pul down the demo versions of the control apps from both Yamaha and Denon, as well as the music-over-wifi Y= Musicast , D= HEOS

I have found that these are features you never knew you needed until you start using them...

hope it helps
 
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Discussion Starter #5
However, room correction is one feature that is new and different in different AVRs. And it makes a huge difference.

I would recommend getting an AVR with Audyssey XT32 room correction.
Thanks for the heads up. I agree about spending a few hundred bucks more if it makes sense. I don't want to make a critical mistake.

In regards to room correction, I didn't realize it was so critical. I understand Yamaha has YPAO. Based on your comments, I am guessing Audyssey is vastly superior to YPAO?
 

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In what may be a testament to the Yamaha's design and build, it sounds like your space requirements would present a potential ventilation issue, leading to overheating. Some AVRs are more susceptible to this than others.
The RX-V485 seems like the direct descendant of the RX-V463. Is it missing anything that makes you consider the RX-A780 or the similar models?
If you like the RX-A780, you may consider the TSR-7850 available at Costco and the RX-V685. They are all very much alike if you find one at a lower price than the others.
The RX-V has 1 year less warranty. The TSR as well, but may be covered by Costco's Concierge service, which could add an extra year of warranty. You may want to check.
You might consider slim-line AVRs from Marantz (NR1510) and Pioneer (VSX-S520) to have much more ventilation area.
The Denon AVR-S650H also fits budget and space. Unfortunately it looks like the last of the Denon AVR-X3500H closeouts are gone. It would have been a great fit with the Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 room correction. The X1600H has an upgraded Audyssey compared to the S650H.
I'm not familiar enough with Onkyo/Pioneer to offer opinions on their full-sized AVRs, except that I do know that the VSX-LX303 and TX-RZ630 run very hot, so I would avoid a tight enclosure.

Yamaha, Marantz and Denon models have eARC, but I don't think the Pioneer does, if you want to keep using the TV as the hub.

Recently experienced a loss of various equipment and appliances in a storm related electrical surge.
Currently looking for a replacement AVR. The unit being replaced is an older Yamaha RX-V463. Due to age and limitations on HDMI ports, etc I had been running my devices through the TV and outputting the sound to the AVR, so my setup is a little backwards from what most you run.

A potential replacement candidate is the Yamaha Aventage RX-A780. Best price I've seen is $539. I'm willing to spend up to about $700 if needed, but would prefer the $500-600 range, or less should you have a good recommendation.

To give you an idea of devices I will be hooking up via HDMI:

- 75-80" 4k HDTV (my Sharp 80" will be replaced)
- Xbox One X (already replaced) w/ Bluray
- Roku4
- Chromecast
- Cox Contour DVR

One of the weaknesses of my old Yamaha unit was sometimes there was a delay in lip movement & speech. I tweaked a little, and it wasn't noticeable to most people.

I might note a final restriction on the replacement unit is the height. The cabinet I have all my gear is limiting. The current Yamaha 463 is right at 6" tall and I have to take off the hinges and flip down door to squeeze the unit in through the FRONT of the cabinet. Once inside, there is additional vertical height. It's just the clearance of getting past the front. On the back, it has a 1/4" plywood type backing on the unit. If needed I could cut a hole in that and feed from the back instead. Doing that would allow me to go 7-8" in height. The A780 measures 6.75" so that was my plan for installing it if I decide to purchase.

Really looking for some solid recommendations, so I look forward to your comments on the Yamaha along with any other potential candidates (Denon, Onkyo, etc).
 

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Thanks for the heads up. I agree about spending a few hundred bucks more if it makes sense. I don't want to make a critical mistake.



In regards to room correction, I didn't realize it was so critical. I understand Yamaha has YPAO. Based on your comments, I am guessing Audyssey is vastly superior to YPAO?
Yes. Audyssey XT32 not others.

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The Costco Yamaha TSR-7850 is the exact same as the A780 minus the 5th foot. It was just on sale for $439 but in the past has gone on sale for $399.


YPAO is just as good as Audyssey and possibly better if you want to use REW. YPAO gives you lots of PEQ options, even for the sub channel, where you can manually tweak your sub channel and speakers. The only difference worth noting on Audyssey is that the xt32 version have auto subEQ which will auto EQ below 30Hz if I remember right. YPAO doesn't autoEQ below 30Hz but again, it does give you manual PEQ control to below 30Hz. Using REW it will be easier to dial in your subs with YPAO as apposed to Audyssey, IMO.
 
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Using REW it will be easier to dial in your subs with YPAO as apposed to Audyssey, IMO.
As frequency based EQs I think of YPAO and MCACC as less powerful than the time-based Audyssey and Dirac, though if your room doesn't have weird problems that won't matter. And all of these are programmed algorithms which may get tripped out by certain rooms.

Does YPAO have a dual-sub mode like Audyssey's Sub EQ HT™? (And does Dirac have such a mode?). A friend and I like Yamaha and he could sure use a variable loudness control for his can't-crank-it living condition.

I'm very curious why you say easier with REW-can you expand on that?
 

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If you are dead set on keeping the receiver in your cabinet with it's height and ventilation restrictions I would suggest:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07CVGRMX2?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-win10-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp

Not the top-end Audyssey suite but since you are keeping the Onkyo speakers with that sub it's certainly more than adequate. Added benefit of having preouts for the front LR if you upgrade your front down the road and are looking for more power with an external amp.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I am definitely concerned about the spacing & ventilation. I don't want to buy new gear and have it go fizzle on me because of stupidity. On the flip side, I imagine I could buy a fan of some sort to help move heat better in a tight space.

Here is what I'm dealing with -- this is the shorter version, but same piece. Notice how the ENTRY is the limiting factor. Even if I were to shove in a slim line, I would likely drill holes in the backing to allow more ventilation since I am now concerned with that.
 

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The RX-V485 seems like the direct descendant of the RX-V463. Is it missing anything that makes you consider the RX-A780 or the similar models?
I would like the ability to go 7.1. Also, with the 463 it lacked sufficient HDMI inputs. Lastly, the 463 didn't process video as well as my TV did, so I currently have it setup so all my devices hit my TV and I simply push the audio out to the 463. I'd like a unit that I can process video and audio through and hopefully gain a better overall experience.

The primary reason for the A780 was despite the V463 not meeting all my needs, it has been very reliable over the years. I can't fault power surges as a Yamaha defect. Also, reading some other articles the A780 was recommended as a good mid-range receiver. I don't foresee stepping into a $1,000+ receiver so I was trying to get as good of a bang for my buck as I could while trying to focus on quality.

If you like the RX-A780, you may consider the TSR-7850 available at Costco and the RX-V685. They are all very much alike if you find one at a lower price than the others. The RX-V has 1 year less warranty. The TSR as well, but may be covered by Costco's Concierge service, which could add an extra year of warranty. You may want to check.
I am not a Costco member, but my wife's parents have a membership so we can manage a purchase. Currently I see the price of the TSR-7850 as $489, just $50 less than the A780. Trying to figure out the key differences, they seem minimal. The 5th leg, zone B output, DTS Express and 3 year warranty (vs 2 year, as you already noted). Reading about Aventage as a whole, they make it sound a little like a "balanced & blueprinted" engine vs a stock engine. I get that, but then I can't really find enough details to make me believe it's more than creative marketing.

But for the small dollar difference, and being able to buy direct vs hassle with the in-laws (especially if a warranty issue were to crop up) then it seems like the A780 may be a better fit. At $399, I'm more willing to deal with some headaches. ;)

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/yamaha-tsr-7850/usa-and-canada/yamaha-rx-a780/usa-and-canada/

You might consider slim-line AVRs from Marantz (NR1510) and Pioneer (VSX-S520) to have much more ventilation area. The Denon AVR-S650H also fits budget and space. Unfortunately it looks like the last of the Denon AVR-X3500H closeouts are gone. It would have been a great fit with the Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 room correction. The X1600H has an upgraded Audyssey compared to the S650H.
I love the slim profiles, I just hate losing almost half the power. I know that doesn't equal 50% at our ears, but still. Using the ZK comparisons, I think the X3500 would be a great contender. The X3600 would work too, except it's too pricey. It feels a little bit like the A780 fills a niche with the 3500 being sold out.

I'm not familiar enough with Onkyo/Pioneer to offer opinions on their full-sized AVRs, except that I do know that the VSX-LX303 and TX-RZ630 run very hot, so I would avoid a tight enclosure.
The more I keep researching, the more I keep thinking Yamaha or Denon. I've owned both before. Prior to the V463 I had an older Denon (can't recall model number) but I was happy to go to Yamaha. I bought the Denon back then because it was supposed to be all that, but it seemed less user friendly and not as quality built to me. However, as you know, I'm far from an AV pro and I'm open minded enough to realize changes have probably occurred that makes Denon stronger today than back then.


If you are dead set on keeping the receiver in your cabinet with it's height and ventilation restrictions I would suggest:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07CVGRMX2?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-win10-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp

Not the top-end Audyssey suite but since you are keeping the Onkyo speakers with that sub it's certainly more than adequate. Added benefit of having preouts for the front LR if you upgrade your front down the road and are looking for more power with an external amp.
I'm not set on keeping the Onkyo speakers. I just have them and would like to re-use until I can do better. While I know I will never have a pro setup I am trying to find sweet spots on performance and price and weave together a decent system without the hefty pricetag.
 

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Yikes!
I'd definitely get a fan, maybe running of the powered AC outlet of an AVR or a smaller one off of USB ports, and definitely get some holes in the back.
Salute to the Yamaha!

I am definitely concerned about the spacing & ventilation. I don't want to buy new gear and have it go fizzle on me because of stupidity. On the flip side, I imagine I could buy a fan of some sort to help move heat better in a tight space.
Here is what I'm dealing with -- this is the shorter version, but same piece. Notice how the ENTRY is the limiting factor. Even if I were to shove in a slim line, I would likely drill holes in the backing to allow more ventilation since I am now concerned with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Another quick update. I called the retailer with the $539 price on the A780. I got curious if they were an authorized dealer or not. Not that I get all ga-ga over warranties but I'd like to know I won't have an issue if I need it.

The answer was weird. They keep their retail and online business under separate names. They advised if I needed a repair, I would need to ship to them and they would get repaired at a local authorized repair shop. Then they would ship back.

The place has been in business for 40 years according to them. I'd think surviving another 3 seems plausible. Still, made me a little cautious to take the cheaper price. Thoughts?

Oh yeah, Costco is showing sold out on the TSR-7850 now. LOL
 

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I would like the ability to go 7.1. Also, with the 463 it lacked sufficient HDMI inputs. Lastly, the 463 didn't process video as well as my TV did, so I currently have it setup so all my devices hit my TV and I simply push the audio out to the 463. I'd like a unit that I can process video and audio through and hopefully gain a better overall experience.



The primary reason for the A780 was despite the V463 not meeting all my needs, it has been very reliable over the years. I can't fault power surges as a Yamaha defect. Also, reading some other articles the A780 was recommended as a good mid-range receiver. I don't foresee stepping into a $1,000+ receiver so I was trying to get as good of a bang for my buck as I could while trying to focus on quality.







I am not a Costco member, but my wife's parents have a membership so we can manage a purchase. Currently I see the price of the TSR-7850 as $489, just $50 less than the A780. Trying to figure out the key differences, they seem minimal. The 5th leg, zone B output, DTS Express and 3 year warranty (vs 2 year, as you already noted). Reading about Aventage as a whole, they make it sound a little like a "balanced & blueprinted" engine vs a stock engine. I get that, but then I can't really find enough details to make me believe it's more than creative marketing.



But for the small dollar difference, and being able to buy direct vs hassle with the in-laws (especially if a warranty issue were to crop up) then it seems like the A780 may be a better fit. At $399, I'm more willing to deal with some headaches. ;)



https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/yamaha-tsr-7850/usa-and-canada/yamaha-rx-a780/usa-and-canada/







I love the slim profiles, I just hate losing almost half the power. I know that doesn't equal 50% at our ears, but still. Using the ZK comparisons, I think the X3500 would be a great contender. The X3600 would work too, except it's too pricey. It feels a little bit like the A780 fills a niche with the 3500 being sold out.







The more I keep researching, the more I keep thinking Yamaha or Denon. I've owned both before. Prior to the V463 I had an older Denon (can't recall model number) but I was happy to go to Yamaha. I bought the Denon back then because it was supposed to be all that, but it seemed less user friendly and not as quality built to me. However, as you know, I'm far from an AV pro and I'm open minded enough to realize changes have probably occurred that makes Denon stronger today than back then.









I'm not set on keeping the Onkyo speakers. I just have them and would like to re-use until I can do better. While I know I will never have a pro setup I am trying to find sweet spots on performance and price and weave together a decent system without the hefty pricetag.
Audyssey XT32 is the only reason I moved from Yamaha to Denon. Yamaha was a very reliable brand.

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For the sake of let's say $100, I would try to find a verified, authorized dealer. If the shop can't repair it, they may shrug their shoulders. With factory warranty (new or refurb), or even 3rd party, they'll send a replacement unit if all else fails.
Google shopping turns up some decent (better in some cases) prices for the similar non-Costco models. Verification of Authorized dealership remains after that.

Another quick update. I called the retailer with the $539 price on the A780. I got curious if they were an authorized dealer or not. Not that I get all ga-ga over warranties but I'd like to know I won't have an issue if I need it.
The answer was weird. They keep their retail and online business under separate names. They advised if I needed a repair, I would need to ship to them and they would get repaired at a local authorized repair shop. Then they would ship back.
The place has been in business for 40 years according to them. I'd think surviving another 3 seems plausible. Still, made me a little cautious to take the cheaper price. Thoughts?
Oh yeah, Costco is showing sold out on the TSR-7850 now. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #17
For the sake of let's say $100, I would try to find a verified, authorized dealer. If the shop can't repair it, they may shrug their shoulders. With factory warranty (new or refurb), or even 3rd party, they'll send a replacement unit if all else fails.
Google shopping turns up some decent (better in some cases) prices for the similar non-Costco models. Verification of Authorized dealership remains after that.
Agree with you 100%. The other vendor I found for $539 was Echo & Optics via NewEgg. Also, tonight I found an A780 on eBay for $499, supposedly brand new. This same seller also had the A880 listed for $699, FYI.

All this has taken me down a rabbit hole of finding AUTHORIZED dealers. Which I then found a list of UNAUTHORIZED dealers, directly on the Yamaha website. While the vendor name on eBay wasn't on the unauthorized list, I did discover that Echo & Optics is on that list. Glad I avoided them.

https://usa.yamaha.com/support/unauthorized_sellers/index.html

This **** is annoying and time consuming. At this point I feel I'm beating my head against the wall with the Denon. No 3500's are out there that I can see.

So I think the 780 is my best best (TSR-7850 also sold out). Crutchfield is an authorized dealer and while they list the 780 for $599, there is a $60 gift card. I have other stuff to buy so this wouldn't be wasted money and gets me the $539 price. Also, they have the 880 for $799 w/ an $80 gift card that puts the net at $719. The 880 is out of stock, but more is expected on 5/18.

Not sure I really need the 880 but it seems like a better deal despite costing a few bucks more.
 

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Hidden on that page in the first sentence (Yamaha Corporation of America sells products ONLY through ***authorized dealers***.) is the link to Authorized resellers, but apparently only brick and mortar. I guess like some other brands, they keep online retailers on a separate list *sigh*
https://www.yamaha.com/paragon/dealerlocator/

I agree that this is (very) annoying.

There are refurb 3500s at A4L for $700. 3500s all suddenly disappeared. I posted the other night just after verifying the price on Amazon, made another post, then they were all gone from Amazon.
There were a bunch of combos of other Denons with Heos speakers, then they were gone maybe 4 hours later. Now I don't see them anywhere except the refurbs.

A880 gives you better YPAO and full preouts. At that price, I'd probably go with the refurb X3500H and XT32 and get a CPS warranty or ask Denon how much to extend factory warranty.

https://usa.yamaha.com/support/unauthorized_sellers/index.html

This **** is annoying and time consuming. At this point I feel I'm beating my head against the wall with the Denon. No 3500's are out there that I can see.

So I think the 780 is my best best (TSR-7850 also sold out). Crutchfield is an authorized dealer and while they list the 780 for $599, there is a $60 gift card. I have other stuff to buy so this wouldn't be wasted money and gets me the $539 price. Also, they have the 880 for $799 w/ an $80 gift card that puts the net at $719. The 880 is out of stock, but more is expected on 5/18.

Not sure I really need the 880 but it seems like a better deal despite costing a few bucks more.
 

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Does YPAO have a dual-sub mode like Audyssey's Sub EQ HT™? (And does Dirac have such a mode?). A friend and I like Yamaha and he could sure use a variable loudness control for his can't-crank-it living condition.

I'm very curious why you say easier with REW-can you expand on that?

YPAO has dual sub auto-correction on the A2080 and A3080 models.


The reason I say YPAO is easier because you get 3 or 4 manual PEQ curve capability with most of the models regardless. You don't need an app like audyssey does to set them. You can use REW to do more accurate measurements and create PEQ curves for the subs and then use them in the yamaha. I believe there is also a way to export EQ curves from REW and upload them to yamaha AVRs but I'm not 100% sure about that.


Both options are very capable but what I have experienced so far with my hands on is that XT32 does OK autoEQ'ing the subs but you still need to use REW to get them tweaked to the most. Since you have to use REW anyway to get to the "best" even with Audyssey, you can also get there and usually for less $ with the Yamaha AVRs
 
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YPAO has dual sub auto-correction on the A2080 and A3080 models.


The reason I say YPAO is easier because you get 3 or 4 manual PEQ curve capability with most of the models regardless. You don't need an app like audyssey does to set them. You can use REW to do more accurate measurements and create PEQ curves for the subs and then use them in the yamaha. I believe there is also a way to export EQ curves from REW and upload them to yamaha AVRs but I'm not 100% sure about that.


Both options are very capable but what I have experienced so far with my hands on is that XT32 does OK autoEQ'ing the subs but you still need to use REW to get them tweaked to the most. Since you have to use REW anyway to get to the "best" even with Audyssey, you can also get there and usually for less $ with the Yamaha AVRs
There are two other apps available to tweak the Audyssey curve without buying an extra mic and setting up REW. I have not used them yet but have heard a lot about them. There are threads for them here as well if OP wants to find more. MultEQ and Ratbuddy.

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